Stupid Anti-hunting people.

[Odin2005]

I have been disgusted lately with all the hunting threads with DUers calling all us hunters "murderers of poor, innocent, cute animals," and at the same time why wonder why people wonder why rural people vote Repug. :eyes:

[stepnw1f]

1. Here We Go Again

Flame Bait

[aden_nak]

2. I just don't lump all hunters into one category.

I differentiate between a man who uses a .28 guage shotgun on tamed, wing-clipped quail and, for example, my cousin from UP Michigan, who is 50% American Indian and hunts in the woods with a bow and arrow.

[lastout]

32. my standard is similar-- I kill deer to eat-- Anyone shooting on a "CHENEY

Hunt" is despicable--as is the "trophy hunters" of any species.
Hunt to eat.thats all.

[zonmoy]

41. I agree

you hunt or fish you eat what you kill or catch.

[papau]

3. Say what - there is a very large group of hunters on DU - some hang in

GUNS

Others like myself just hang around.

The old folks like myself know that there was no food on the rural table if you did not hunt.

Granted some of the young urban folks would like everyone to go vegan - but that is not really seen that much on DU.

At least I have not seen it.

[vitariva]

23. we vegans

are everywhere...even on DU. Beware!

[pepperbear]

4. it is disingenuous....

to blame hunting culture for this little mishap, but as a previous poster mentioned, this wasn't even a "ted nugent get back to nature while I adopt a child so I can have carnal relations with her(read fuck, 'cause that's what ted would say)" situation, this wasn't a hunt at all. this was a shoot at ranch owned by a rich republican donor (that "have more" base we've heard so much about)....and the targets? quail raised specifically to be used as game.

nah, on second thought...go jump in a lake buddy, the
prey should at least have a fighting chance. would you go to a reserve and shoot tame animals JUST for sport? This isn't sport, this is just wrong. I for one hope the fracas stays alive and well and that it does indeed become political.

[creeker]

13. I agree- My Dad and I would Quail hunt to eat-- we harvested deer also

[OhioNerd]

16. Prey should have a fighting chance?

That's just DUMB.

Never mind the ghosts of cavement who are falling out of their etheral chairs laughing at such a concept; unless you are a Vegan you have NO room to make that criticism.

[DrGonzoLives]

18. Who is talking about canned hunting here?

News flash, kiddo, the vast majority of hunters out there aren't rich like Dick Cheney and go to "rancehs" to feel like big men and shoot something. I've grown up around these people, yes, they enjoy the thrill of the hunt, but they eat the animals that they kill as well.

In other words, we could try focusing on canned hunting (which real hunters look at as idiotic) instead of just using the standard make-a-generalization-because-it's-easier-than-thinking method that is all too often used around here.

[bluerum]

5. Yeah - I can see how expressing ones opinion would force you

to go vote republican.

Yes - in a few isolated pockets of the country, where the roads and supermarkets are few - a warm dead animal spells dinner. I would wager that many of those areas lack internet connections too.

Not that I begrudge your right to hunt - its just that I personally find it repulsive. I am on no anti-hunting crusade and neither are many who find killing repuslive.

But in general, and I am guessing on the conservative side here, that for 75% or better of the country hunting (also known as killing wild animals, or in Cheney's case, not so wild) cannot be justified on the basis of "putting food on the table." Not in the year 2006 in 75% of the country anyway.

If that's enough to make someone vote republican, than I would guess that there is something else going on with the hunters (wild animal killers).

on edit: Not that I begrudge....

[OnionPatch]

15. I don't see how

it's ok for us to all buy factory-farmed meat at the supermarket, from animals that lived horrible lives of confinement on lots of swill that pollute the air and water, but we should feel guilty for hunting abundant wildlife that lived natural lives in their native habitats.

Just because meat is readily available at the supermarket for 75% of us doesn't mean we all choose to eat it. It's pumped full of hormones and antibiotics and the beef could even kill you if you happen to get a piece with Mad Cow disease. I happily eat the venison my husband puts in the freezer.

But I totally agree with you about the Republican part----All the anti-gun, anti-hunting people on Earth couldn't get me to vote Republican. :)

[Grinchie]

53. Amen, their is nothing as sobering to the sould as hunting excess pigs

Dressing them and partaking of the gift nature gave to us.

First of all, it reconnects you to the roots of our lives, without having some glorified image like those portayed in some Hollywood movie skew your reality.

The first time you do it, you are in shock at just how must hard work is involved in dressing a hog. It tempers one's expectations about the food we eat, and in turn, directs us on the most efficient way to produce our food. Hunting turns into a special occasion, mainly because there is no way you could do it every day without succumbing to exhaustion.

For many years my Mom raised a crop of duck every year, and then took them to a third party to slaughter. As the years went on, the third party people that did this dwindled until their were none left. We had to go further and further to get the Ducks slaughtered until it ended up being too costly.

Now their is nobody left in the area that does this anymore, and my mom is too old to do it herslef. The feed is way too expensive and that honor of eating the poultry that you raised from little duckling to big strong healthy birds is no more.

I finally broke down and learned to do it on my own farm, and it is an important skill to know.

[hipneck]

46. Wonder where you get that 75% figure...some hidden orifice?

If you're a vegetarian, I respect your feelings even though I'm an omnivore.

If you're not, I'm left with an impression of hypocrisy. Either way, your ignorance is showing, and is a good example of the sort of attitude that keeps most of my neighbors voting Repug out here in the mountains.

I hunt not because it's cheaper (one turkey costs about $40 in permits and supplies, plus hours of time to hunt and prepare), but because it's infinitely kinder than supporting factory farms where "free range" means a few hours a day in a concrete courtyard, and 'organic' means the trash they're fed MIGHT have less drugs and chemicals in it.

Compared to the so-called "free range organic" turkey at Whole Paycheck Foods, my thanksgiving bird will have lived a long, happy life, engaging in healthy turkey pasttimes and eating a TRULY organic, wildcrafted diet. It will be far "cleaner", both ethically and health-wise, and a whole lot tastier than the frankenthings at the supermarket, who are so inbred that they cannot fly, forage for food, or even complete the sexual act (they're all artificially inseminated now).

Do you eat supermarket meat? That's TRULY repulsive.

By the way, broadband is available anywhere in the U.S. starting at about $40/month - satellite - and I've even heard tell of people getting online using their telephone line.

[uppityperson]

47. Not everyone has $40 or a phone line. Why insult that poster?

Asking if they pulled that # out their asshole, calling them ignorant, and a hypocrite. Not a good way to start out posting here.

Though I do agree that supermarket meat is repulsive, which I why I grow/eat my own chickens and buy my beef locally from a family who raises them.

And no, not everyone has and extra $40 or a phone, and yes, there are still places without telephone lines.

[McKenzie]

6. I'm a rural person

grew up in the sticks, fish regularly and used to shoot WILD game. I despise the fat bankers who come up here to shoot driven pheasants that have been reared just to be released and then forced to fly so the fat gits can blast widly into the air. I fully support the hard working people who undertake the deer culling by crawling around on the hill then dragging the carcass down themselves if they can't get up with a pony or an ATV.

Just because we are liberals does not mean some of us don't like a bit of redneck sport...of the real sort, not the hideous practice of shooting tame birdies.

[papau]

8. I agree-this wasn't really "hunting"-it was rich guy at a range -killing

tame animals - a bit sick - indeed a whole lot sick

Indeed a Ted Nugent moment.

By the way - while I saw a lot of the "dragging the carcass" after gutting - I never understood why folks did not field butcher down to the 50 or less pounds of meat (heck 40 lbs or less usually), and walk away with just the meat?

Is a head on the wall that important?

Whatever floats the boat, of course - but dragging a frozen carcass around the forest was not my sport even in the way back when I had the strengh to do it.

[McKenzie]

9. I guess it's coz it's easier to drag the carcass off whole

our hill country is pretty barren with no tree cover. Field butchering in woodlands is easier because the carcass can be strung between two trees; can't do that on the hill.

As for the heads it's usually hinds that are culled so they aren't retained.

BTW, we call dressing out the carcass "gralloching".

Cheers

[Odin2005]

11. Canned hunts are pathetic.

That ain't hunting, it's ritualized slaughter of tamed animals. :grr:

[Duppers]

42. thanks. that's what pepperbear was saying.

nt

[ruralmom]

34. Me too

I can't see any reason to kill any animal.
I came here to discuss ways rural people can help us take the whitehouse. If you want to talk about murdering animal. I'll go elsewhere.

[kestrel91316]

39. I can't see any reason why humans should be PROHIBITED from killing

other animals. We are omnivores. We are NOT herbivores.

Name another species on earth that we try to keep from eating what nature designed it to eat.

[tama]

48. Not ANY reason?

So when you see lethally wounded animal suffering horribly, you'll leave it suffering and don't end it's pain?

BTW, also gardeners kill animals, even organic gardeners that produce the good-conscience-vegan stuff you eat. So you're guilty too... :)

[Double T]

7. You have got to wonder about a person that will snuff out.........

the life of another living, breathing creature for 'sport'. What if the tables were turned? What is YOUR life worth?

[TheCowsCameHome]

10. This is great. A "canned" hunt using SUV's and probably radios.

What a joke. Cheney's aides did everything but pull the damn trigger for him.

Outdoorsman and hunter, my ass. He can't walk 50 feet without huffing and puffing. It's a miracle he didn't shoot himself.

Assholes behaving like this give hunting a bad name.

[Robb]

12. I think you can chalk it up to being misinformed

Really, a lot of kids in the city have no idea what goes on when people go hunting.

I know out here, until about ten years ago, I would never have imagined what a crucial part of the local diet that elk tag would be. It's a big social thing -- hell, I've still got some "designer elk" (buddy got his on Ralph Lauren's ranch, with permission!) in the freezer.

But yeah, before I lived out here in rural CO, I doubt I would've been much different. It's education, like any issue, and people just don't know much about it.

[MikeStl]

14. I just get irritated with it being called a sport

I look at a sport as something someone derives enjoyment from. There is nothing enjoyable about killing a living creature no matter how much of a sport it is made out to be. I think the Daily Show did a pretty good job last night of making these hunters that shoot at caged animals look like idiots.

[Grinchie]

54. It's not a sport, it's a little bit harrowing actually

In Hawaii, the pigs are big, fast, and can get pretty mean. I consider myself on equal footing with the animal, because he can tear me apart pretty easily.

One sow can have an average litter of 7 piglets, and they have more food than you can imagine with the Papaya fields and wild guava. If you did not thin them constantly they would overun the place. Millions of dollars of pig fence has bee installed in remote native forest areas to keep them out.

Pigs are everywhere, and the islands are so rugged, forested and remote, we are lucky that people actually take the time to hunt the pigs. Unfortunately, the management practices tends to cater to the hunters, so they tend to keep the pigs around to support it. Kind of a catch 22

On my land, I have completed control as they destroy my crops, but I leave most of them alone until they become a nuisance, which is about every 6 months. They consume the rotting fruit in the forest, and provide a sustainable stream of protein when they become so numerous as to practically walk into range.

[DeadEyeDyck]

60. I used to live in Ohau (USN brat)

I would skydive at Mokuleia at Dillingham Field. Now and the, we would see the locals coming down from the mountain with a huge pig strapped over the roof of an old pick-up. Makes for a great Luau. Kalua pig is great.

[Pontificator]

17. Yeah or nay...

I would suspect that all of us could merit being better informed of the other side's positions.

Myself, I paid my way through college guiding people on duck and goose hunts in SE Texas (Jefferson/Chambers/Liberty counteis), making me the 3rd generation of my family to work as an outfitter.

It's in my family's blood. Indeed, I wouldn't know what life is like w/o being able to hunt...what Kuhn call's "incommensurable" I say is unimaginable. But that's not being critical, it's a simple admission that I'm unable to be a part of a world that didn't shape me and my current Lebensform. One of the most formative times out in the field was when I was approached in the middle of a hunt by some PETA members. I invited them into the blind, gave them some coffee, and made a quid pro quo with them that if they left me alone right now, I'd buy them breakfast at a small choke and puke in Sabine Pass. They agreed, and throughout our conversation we reached a level of respect for one another's position that wouldn't have been possible if we hadn't committed to actually listening respectfully to one another. To this day, the 3 of us exchange greetings on our respective birthdays despite 12 years now having passed.

What they heard from me, and what everyone who asks hears, is what I was taught and learned in countless marshes and ricefields about Creation and our place in it, and respect for others I consider to be far superior than anything I learned as a philosophy major, a seminary grad, and now a lawyer. Don't get me wrong: I've learned a lot inside the academy, out in the parish, and in the courtroom, but my being able to pay attention to what's important and what's merely collateral background noise was burned into me long ago.

Eventually, if one spends enough time in the wild, they will begin to feel really, really small and insignificant. A feeling, I might add, that everyone needs to experience at some point in their lives if for no other reason that to knock us down a notch both individually and as a Liberal society.

Nowadays I rarely bring my gun in the field for my own purposes, choosing instead to teach and watch my 2 (soon to be 3) boys and make sure the learn the deep respect for God's good Creation that I was taught, and to shoot back-up so as to eliminate any chance of losing game (a most unforgiveable sin in my book; with me, you do not continue the hunt until all avenues of recovery have been exhausted). If done right I suspect and hope my sons will come to realize that we humans are NOT in control. In fact, just the opposite: the more we try to manipulate Nature, the more we get what we deserve. Witness what happened to NOLA last August in contrast to NOLA actually being spared if we, as humans, hadn't taken upon ourselves to lock, canal, and dam every channel in the MS delta, thereby cutting off the revitalization and continual silting of SE LA coastal wetlands....wetlands being nature's number 1 defense against inland coastal flooding.

Most hunters I know, myself included, only kill what we eat. Period. No one I know personally kills "just because it's there," but I do recognize that there are "game hogs" who measure success in the field and a good time contingent up their killing a limit...or more. It sickens me to hear them refer to themselves as hunters because they're not, in any sense of the word, a hunter. Someone above referenced canned hunts such as the one DICK went on. I and everyone I know steadfastly refuses to call the fiasco that DICK went on as "hunting" even in the most perjorative sense of the word. That's just a chickenshit meat haul fit only for someone who is not immoral, but rather a completely amoral person (immoral assumes the agent knows right from wrong and did wrong; amoral is a term for someone wholly devoid of morals). It's both ironic and fitting that DICK would be exposed as the turd he is in that context.

Btw, for those who don't hunt and eat meat: enjoy those steroids and antibiotics that are pumped into domesticated, for food animals. As for me and my family, we'll stick to the lean, fat free, mostly organically fed fowl, deer, and hogs that make their way to our freezer and eventually our plates.

Of course, that's after we've given thanks for our harvest to the proper authority.

Don't knock it until you've actually listened to someone, and make sure they do the same. Otherwise, you're just cheating yourself and limiting your own chance at growing a little wiser than you were the day before.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

[NMDemDist2]

19. well spoken Pontificator

:hi:

[Odin2005]

20. Great post, that's exactly how I feel.

[vitariva]

24. But why do you have to kill animals

and teach your children to kill animals to understand what you understand about yourself and the natural world?

[IrateCitizen]

26. I assume you're a complete vegetarian then???

If not, then you're being an outright hypocrite. After all, those steaks and chicken breasts don't grow on trees, pre-wrapped in cellophane.

Children should be exposed to death, and not left to believe that the world is a touchy-feely place where nothing ever gets hurt. Death is a part of the life cycle, something completely natural. Sheltering ourselves from death is what removes us from nature, and ultimately ends up in our harming it through our ignorance and fear of it.

I remember when I was a child my grandparents used to raise beef cattle -- we'd slaughter one every year for our beef. As for chickens, we'd raise them every summer and I'd be woken up in late August to help slaughter the chickens with my parents and grandparents. Both of these activities gave me a much greater appreciation of eating meat as an adult, a healthy respect for the animal that provides my sustenance.

Hunting is much the same way. I used to hunt -- and the reason I stopped has nothing to do with killing, but more because freezing my ass off in a deer blind isn't my idea of a good time. I believe that hunting can do much more to instill a healthy respect for the cycles of life than most activities homo modernus currently engages in.

[hipneck]

44. Assuming that's not a rhetorical quesiton...

Because for millions of years, that's been something humans do. Naturally. The most inbred, closed-minded redneck hunter probably has a deeper knowledge about and connection to the cycles of nature than the average city-dwelling gardener.

Nothing lives without death. Plants are vital, living things, just like everything else. They feed on the decomposed dead, and are in turn eaten. Do you draw some arbitrary line where non-mobile life forms have no spirit or value? How do you define this boundry? Is a plant's immobility what makes it "OK to kill"? Maybe we should dine on paraplegics.

Is a plant's (presumed) lack of intelligence the point? Perhaps it would be better to process the mentally impaired into soylent green.

But hey, why think about all this? Let's just say that it's evil to eat anything with a face. Of course, we'll have to convince dogs, cats, spiders, wasps, cougars, coyotes, bears, birds...

[Grinchie]

55. Well said

I follow that same credo, but as a land steward and preservationist, I shoot Mongoose on sight. When I see these vermin with a native bird I cry at the stupidity of man, and the unending task that idiot who brought the mongoose to the Islands cursed us with forever.

[LWolf]

21. What about me?

I'm not anti-hunting. I'm fine with people who want to get some of their meat from the wild. As long as their bullets aren't coming too close to me, which happens sometimes around here. Being out on my horse and hearing "pop, pop, pop," from behind me is one thing. I can do without the "zings."

I'm anti-sport hunting. I don't think killing is, or should be, a recreational activity done for pleasure.

[lies and propaganda]

22. oh, i thought it was the scary gays.

I didnt know Republicans were so dimensional ;)

[lindisfarne]

25. My brothers hunt. They eat everything they kill, are extremely safety

conscious, and shoot to kill the animal humanely (rather than as a trophy).

Animals like deer in the upper midwest need to be culled, unfortunately, otherwise the killing machine would be the car even more frequently than already is the case (and that can often lead to slow painful death if the car doesn't kill the animal outright). If the deer population gets too large, the deer can starve in the winter due to inadequate food supplies.

I don't like it, would never shoot an animal, but am realistic about it. (I grew up with one brother killing and eating everything from squirrel to pheasant to deer to frog legs (caught and killed himself; just once, I think) - and I very carefully and thoroughly scrubbed out the pans he used before I would use them (he had washed them once but I wasn't taking any chances).

There are irresponsible hunters out there, and those I wish would stop - these are the trophy hunters who will avoid shooting to kill to get a good trophy head of an animal. There are irresponsible hunters who are dangerous (Dick Cheney comes to mind).

Any non-vegetarian should realize that the way a pig or cow is slaughtered is far worse than the way a responsible hunter kills an animal. (Even organically fed animals are not slaughtered in any more of a humane manner).

[efhmc]

27. I hate and despise guns and hunting but make most of my income from

it. I see no joy in killing anything, but allow others the right to differ. How about you?

[Gregorian]

28. Two nights ago.

I was sitting on my porch with a full moon rising on the horizon. In the apple orchard, there was an elk trumpeting. I love the elk. I was listening to him making his call for a few minutes. And then from the opposite side of my property about fifteen minutes later came another trumpeting sound. But it wasn't an elk. It was someone with an elk calling whistle. Here I was in the center of this. My beloved elk on one side, and some dork on the other side. The guy was calling this elk so he could kill it. I don't have polite words to describe how I feel about the number of people versus the number of remaining animals.

[mollymcguire]

29. Trespasser?

If he was on your property, he could have easily have shot
you. Did he have your permission to be on your property, or
was he trespassing? Suggest that you keep a rifle around to
warn off the animals and as a possible protection against the
idiot hunter.
City boys on a deer hunt are the worst, I stay out of the
woods & off the back roads during that season, quite a few
drink & do not follow any rules of good sportsmanship. But
then, what do they care?
Peace

[NMDemDist2]

30. welcome to DU mollymcguire!

:hi:

[creeker]

31. Forget the Rifle, get a shotgun--It will scare the Fauna much better

and the shot will not fly 1-2 miles from you.
If you use the meat hunting can be a way to get by. Several years ago I hit hard times.A buddy with a "Sams card" got me 100 Lb. of beans and 100 Lb. of rice. I shot Rabbits,Squirrels,and Doe Deer for protein.
I can survive.

[pnutbutr]

43. I have had trespassers

I don't personally hunt but allow my neighbors to hunt on my property provided they let me know when they will be doing it.

One night I caught a guy hunting from a blind on my property that overlooks a field. It's actually perfect for deer because they congregate in that field sometimes in packs of 10 or more. When he realized that I had seen him he left through the woods. He was there the next night so I yelled across the field that I was calling the warden. It is illegal to hunt at night. I have not seen him since.

I also get non locals who park down the road and hunt on and around my property and think they own everything. They stand next to their trucks and fire their guns an unnecessary number of times before actually starting their hunt. One day they came I was powerwashing my tin roof getting it prepped for a repaint. I'm sure the noise was scaring all the deer away which apparently prompted them to end their hunt early and tear my mailbox from it's post.

Last year we had two locals get shot by out of town hunters. One was even shot on the roof of his house. The year before that an out of town hunter shot someones horse and tried to get away but was promptly caught.

[lumberjack_jeff]

61. Welcome to DU

FWIW, my granddad was a Molly McGuire. :hi:

[kestrel91316]

40. Where I come from it's illegal to hunt at night.......

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pipoman]

35. I have hunted for years

Over the years I have taken less of an interest. I still take my boys hunting every year and I deer hunt most years. We hunt mainly to cull the populations. I hunt my father-in-laws farm ground. At the beginning of season he usually knows how many deer we need to kill to keep the populations in check. He has farmed and hunted on these several sections of ground for 70 years. He has no desire to eliminate the populations, just keep the property damage down and the populations healthy. Some years he may determine 5 deer other years 20. Without deer hunters it is likely that chronic wasting disease would be much more of a problem and could completely wipe out the deer populations according to some state wildlife departments. We saw a similar problem several years ago with coyote populations and mange, it nearly wiped them out.

We occasionally hunt varmints which we do not eat. We do this to control populations too, nobody desires to wipe them out. By varmints I mean prairie dogs, coyotes, skunks, opossum, feral cats, etc. Also in this category would be feral hogs which most people will eat at least the usable portions.

The truth of modern hunting is that most hunters pay way more for the hunt than the meat would cost to buy. Most hunters do eat what they kill outside of varmints.

In my state the revenue from hunting is the only money used to protect the wildlife. Around 25 years ago my state used funds raised from hunting licenses to reintroduce wild turkeys on public grounds. The populations have exploded. There are few shelter belts or wooded areas public or private which do not hold large populations of birds. Since this reintroduction the problem of coyote mange has all but disappeared, bobcat populations have exploded from nearly none to a significant population and hunting license revenues have gone up significantly because of turkey license fees.

On the national level duck stamp sales (100% hunters) and organizations like Ducks Unlimited (99% hunters) are all that saved many species as well as preserved wetlands public and private. Wood ducks were nearly extinct 50 years ago now the population thrives, many other species would mirror this.

Most of the anti hunters don't contribute $.01 to the state for use in wildlife management. They yammer on about Bambi while living in their wooded subdivision complaining about nearly hitting a deer with their Lexus while coming home from work. A lack of understanding or refusal to acknowledge the need for game management drive many of these well meaning people to erroneous conclusions about what hunting does for them.

[eilen]

36. A big stable part of my childhood

involved hunting season. I didn't hunt, my brothers and father--the men in our family. I was not discouraged, I just had no interest in it. But every year we wouild go to camp during the season and the entire extended family would be there. We slept in the upstairs of the cabin which had rows of beds on each side--it was all open like a big loft. If we had to use the bathroom, there was an outhouse. I would accompany my older cousin to pick princess pine and she made wreaths from it and sold them. I also learned about other plants and wildlife in the area around the cabin.

The men got up very very early, took their generous lunches and went out to hunt, in the frosty cold and dark woods. Their wives and daughters, in between serving the big breakfasts, lunches and dinners, would play cards at the very long community table When the men brought back deer they were hung on from a construction of wood, that had two thick legs and a high bar. One year there was a bear. After hunting for the week concluded, the deer would go to a processor. We would have a full freezer of venison for the winter. I always liked to go even though sometimes I would get bored. Everyone talked and laughed and the smell of the woods was always present. The cabin was heated by a black iron woodstove and there were stacks and stacks of wood on the side of the cabin. The place where they cut the wood (the teenage boys always would get this chore) was on the side in a clearing. We always had pie after dinner. My female cousins and I had to set table, clear and wash under supervision of the older aunts. It was more of a break for my mother and those her age, they talked, joked, showed pictures, brought knitting, smoked and sang. When it rained and they were done playing poker (they would bring containers of pennies to play cards), they would play yahtzee or show off the latest dances. If there was a tv (I'm vaguely remembering a small black & white with antenna) it wasn't on during the day and never for children to watch.

Seeing the dead deer did not upset me. There were trophy antlers that dotted the upper beams and walls of the cabin. Every year the men would point out and recount who got which one and some of them remembered hunting stories of their fathers and grandfathers. This never seemed barbaric to me. These men grew up working in fields, then went to work in factories, this time was when they could reconnect and put some food away.

When I got older I never really understood why people would find this objectionable. It was not easy to hunt and kill these very large animals. It was challenging. It was not like walking up and shooting your dog. I also would like to point out that during this time, the only grossly overweight people were those with bad arthritis who could not walk and move around too much, mostly older and there were not many of them. There was one little girl who was quite spoiled/bratty who ate too many sweets and was a little chubby but otherwise we were slim and active and very healthy.

Some of the wives also obtained hunting licenses, but only had them for show, just in case there were more deer than what was alloted tags for the men. The venison was a big part of our food supply.

[Upton]

37. I have no problem with hunters that follow the laws

but out where I live we have trespassing, poaching, hunting out of season, spotlighting, you name it. Unfortunately, there are some very visible jerks giving the responsible law abiding hunters a bad name. It might be a good idea if those law breakers were given stiff jail sentences for their violations. BTW, not all rural people vote Republican.

[plantwomyn]

38. They aren't stupid.

They have a right to an opinion.
If rural people vote Repug because of "Stupid Anti-hunting people" who's really being STUPID?
My BIG problem with deer hunters is the cull method used by SOME hunters. Dead or dying dear along the abandoned RR tracks and elsewhere here in IN. Had an acquaintance tell me proudly about his son's first hunt and how it only took him THREE kills to tag a dear with nice antlers. The LAWS should be changed. If you shoot it tag it.
I agree about the shotgun, nice and loud and small shot or blanks leave little lead pollution.

[hipneck]

45. Actually...

Steel pellet shotgun shells are widely available, and hunting with lead pellets is even banned in some places, as it should be.

[newfie11]

49. depends on the type of people doing the hunting.

When we lived in the northern part of Michigan's lower peninsula we just had 80 acres. When hunting season came nothing was safe. We had drunks out shooting, bullets hitting the house, gates left open. These were not locals but people who came up from the lower part of Michigan to party. Party they did.

Fast forward to the South Dakota Black Hills. We owned that farm for 15 years. Never had a gate left open. No shots into or even close to the house. There were plenty of hunters from out of state but they were responsible sober people looking for a deer/elk/turkey. We saw quite a few of them as they would get lost and stumble onto our place. We even had to drive a few out to where they left their trucks as they had no idea where they were.

Our farm here in Nebraska is mostly in Corn this year and while we do have pheasant's we do not allow hunting because we have horses running in a pasture next to some of the fields. We have lots of deer and antelope but never had a problem with hunters.

So if my only experience with hunters was the idiots we came in contact with in Michigan I would have a different opinion of hunters then I do. The bad ones ruin it for the majority that are good hunters.

BTW my SIL and Grandkids are avid responsible hunters.

[Duppers]

50. this sort of things give hunters a BAD rep too....

LTE - Local Daily dePress

Dog hunting
December 7, 2008
Let me see the pro-dog hunters now that the season is in full swing. I have over 50 pictures of hunting dogs unfed left in the woods for weeks, not cared for at all. One hunter who came to pick up his dog said if they are hungry they hunt better.

Pro football player Michael Vick is serving time in jail for just the same treatment of dogs or worse. Maybe these hunters need to be punished the same way.

Virginia needs to change dog-hunting laws. Other states have seen that it is good for the sport.

Maybe dog hunters then will learn how to hunt instead of running the deer down like a trapped victim.



Bill Smith

Newport News

http://www.dailypress.com/news/opinion/dp-op_sunltrs_12072dec07,0,615277.story

[backtoblue]

51. most gun opponents

(such as myself) think that the cities are no place for rifles or semi-automatic weapons because the only living things there to shoot at are each other.... In the country/rural setting there is a tradition of hunting and I personally believe that if you kill it - you should eat it.

[Grinchie]

52. They've never seen a litter of Wild Pigs roam through a farm.

They've never experienced 15 chickens or ducks slaughtered overnight by a pack of ravenous Racoons.

They've never cared that their dogs roam around in packs and harass horses, cattle and other livestock.

They've never been overwhelmed by hundreds of Mongoose all hunting the native birds at once.

They've never considered that feeding a feral cat only increases their numbers.

They've never had a family of ground squirrels dig burrows and break ankles, or destroy the foundation of their barn.

They've never seen food shortages or overcrowding where the animals tear each other apart for lack of space.

These people are so far removed from the Earth, that they would not survive the conditions that were predominant until 20 years ago. They have been brought up on Supermarket produce, available through an unsustainable system that is now collapsing.

They will happily kill a spider or a cockroach, but don't have a clue about balance. I can't speak for everyone, but I only hunt if it directly affects the health of my farm or my livestock. Creatures that are out of balance, like Mule Deer, invasives or feral pets are fair game. Truly unique animals are preserved and catered to. I don't think I could ever shoot a Beaver -- They are just too weird looking and cool.

[joeglow3]

56. We had beaver at our Wild Game Feed

It was actually pretty good.

[dlfinn]

58. racoon

barbequed Racoon is great

[truedelphi]

62. In :Lake County, wild turkeys are tearing through the environs.

So I understand a lot of what you are saying.

I was glad to find out that my co-worker invited city friends of hers over to select a tom or two. They diodn't have a lot of money for food, and so it is a win win (Well, except for the chosen two turkeys)

The native quail now have more of a chance. Fewer turkeys means more quail egss will become chicks. And the human family has a lot of food in the freezer.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[patriotvoice]

59. Comments like "The only type of gun that should be allowed for hunting is a 2 gauge shotgun" and

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=225522&mesg_id=225527

"If you're too lazy to reload a shotgun then maybe you shouldn't be out hunting?" don't help either, technical inaccuracy aside. If it's not killing helpless, harmless, defenseless animals, it's using an "assault weapon" to do so. :eyes:

The platform of urban, knee-jerk stupidity is not a winning one, despite all its other merits.

[clc79092]

63. hunting

I love animals- I kill them, eat them and wear their skins. MY ancestors did not claw their way to the top of the food chain to eat tofu.