Need some advice on buying binoculars.....

[Pert_UK]

I'm hoping to go on safari in Southern Africa later this year, and it would seem silly not to take some bins with me.

However, I have no experience whatsover in buying binoculars and have no idea what to look for.

Can anybody give me some pointers re:

- which brands to look for / avoid
- which features to look for / avoid
- any particular models that you'd recommend?

I don't want to spend a load of money (may even go 2nd hand via eBay or a pawn brokers) - probably not more than £100, definitely no more than £150 ($190 - $280 at a rough guess). Needless to say, I'm not expecting to get a set of Zeiss for this money!

I was thinking of either going for 7x or 8x magnification, but was wondering about getting a set of zoom binoculars - are they any good? Do you sacrifice a lot of quality for the additional function?

I'd prefer a reasonably compact pair.

For what it's worth, I used to shoot air rifles with a scope on, so I'm not completely ignorant about optics, but you might as well assume that I am......

Thanks.

P.

[TX-RAT]

1. My favorites are a pair of Zeiss 10x42's

With the price range you've set, look at Nikon, Burris and Steiner.
All make good optic in that price range.
If you wear glasses, look for longer eye relief and fold back cups.
I'd stick with a fixed 10 for overall use, I've never had much success with zoom binoculars. They never seem to focus right.
Have fun on your trip and post plenty of pics.

[bemildred]

2. I have some Nikon armored 10x50s that I like.

A bit heavy, but good optics.
I would second the opinion about zoom.

For travel sometimes lighter ones are better, easier
to carry along, and there are some excellent compacts
out now. It's like trying on shoes, you have to play
with them a bit.

[Kolesar]

3. If you are going to have a bouncy ride, get low power

Boaters are recommended to get 7x or less for that reason. I have had bad viewing with 10x when I could not support the binoculars well, myself.

There is also a function of the "exit pupil diameter", which is the diameter of the beam coming out of the eyepiece lens (secondary lens). As you age, your iris gets less responsive and cannot open/dialate as much. So any light coming from a larger "exit pupil diameter" will be wasted. A birder told me that. That is about all I know of it. You could probably Google "exit pupil diameter" or binocular buying and get the length of it. Let me know if you find something boffo to read.

[Deep13]

4. 7x35 or 8x40

Look for the same companies that make cameras. My perception of "compact may be skewed by the fact that I use binoculars for astronomy and 12x60 seems normal to me. The best, overall size is 10x50. They are reasonable compact and lightweight ones are available. They give enough power to get up close and personal but not enough to be overly jittery. If that is too big, consider 8x40, which is bird-watcher size. There are some really light hiking size models, but I do not know much about them.

Here are the basics. Don't buy unless you try them out first. Don't buy sight-unseen. That rules out eBay. Make sure you are comfortable with the eyerelief. Even though all 10x50s have the same aperature, magnification and exit pupil, there are important differences. Quality binos have good color correction, no edge distortion and relatively wide apparent fields of view. (That's the size of the peep-hole that it seems you are looking through.) Generally, the higher the power, the further away your closest focus will be. Quality binos also have round exit pupils. Look down the eyepiece with the objective pointed out the daylit window. The disk of light inside should be round, not squared-off. Make sure one eyepiece has a diopter adjustment just in case both of your eyes are not the same. Look for full-multicoatings to minimize glare. Also, a built-in tripod adapter can be useful.

Use any optical aid without eyeglasses unless you have a noticeable astigmatism. If so, you will need to pay close attention to eyerelief as it must be long enough to accomodate eyeglasses.

Wide, 7mm exit pupils are best for low-light conditions. Narrower 5mm exit pupils will give higher magnification and will not mask-off so much aperature. Exit pupil= aperature divided by magnification. Holding them without the jitters is a learned skill. The most heavy part of any hand-held binoculars are your arms. The weight of the unit does not matter very much. The best way to support binoculars for land use is to keep your forearms vertical and together in front of you. Rent the movie Das Boot to see how it is done.

[Deep13]

5. one more thing

I am a bit prejudiced against zoom models. I believe the added lens elements necessary to get close will obscure any added detail obtained by additional magnification.

[Romulus]

6. hey Pert

Sounds like fun, wish I could go!

The 7x or 8x would be good if you are riding around in a land rover or something and will scan on the move. Higher magnification will make it hard to keep them steady on wildlife while bouncing around.

I have a Baush & Lomb 10x50, and they are great for bird watching (and waterproof ), but the higher magnification means I have to wait for the birds to settle down, or else I lose them in flight. The B&L lens quality is W-A-Y better than my old Tasco binoculars. I learned that I needed waterproof binos the hard way after experiencing a mishap while kayaking. The B&L binos were $199 at www.sierratradingpost.com; they may ship to the UK. Sierra has a lot of good deals, including Zeiss, so you should take a look.

I like the single-magnification because it is a little bit faster to focus. In the military we had these "auto focus" binoculars that needed no focusing! You just looked through them and your eyes did the focusing. There are civilian versions of these auto-focus binos.

I think 50mm-sized lenses will be the largest "compact" binoculars you will find, but for wildlife viewing I would stay away from any lens sizes in the 20's (like my Tasco pair).

[Pert_UK]

7. Thanks for the advice, guys....

I'm going to try a few pairs out, but if I can get my hands on a pair of Burris Landmark rf 10X42s to test, I'll see if I like them and then maybe get them from this guy:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10955&item=6181156906&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

That's a HUGE bargain as far as I can tell, even with postage from HK.

[MrSandman]

8. If you are going to spring for southern Africa...

Don't go cheap on the optics. I like to keep it simple with optics, assuming that more complexity = greater probability of a malfunction.

Thre brands that have a good rep with anyone I've spoken with.

Swarovski
Leica
Zeiss

[bmbmd]

9. I have some Zeiss armored 8x50

that I bought on sale for 500 bucks seven or eight years ago. They are terrific. I agree that quality optics are more important than just about anything. You might look at Steiner for that price (at Cabelas.com ) or try these

http://www.russianoptics.com/binoc13.html

[DenaliDemocrat]

10. Nice glass

You can really get some nice glass relatively cheaply ($400-500) if you do not need waterproof, which you probably don't since you are going to an arid place. I recommend the Brunton Epochs as an exceptional glass for the money. If you need waterproof, then the big three Leica, Zeiss, or Swarovski are the way to go. I have a pair of Leica's BNs. At this end, there is little difference in quality other than what feels best to you.

Suggest you also look at Pentax and check out www.sierratradingpost.com for some killer deals on Steiners if you don't mind a little bulk, you can get outrageous optics pretty cheap in a periscope style (non roof prism) bino.

[Pert_UK]

11. And the winners are........if you're interested!

Guys (and Gals)

I took some of your advice, but I'm afraid I did overlook one crucial tip - I didn't try before I bought.....

OK, I did try a few pairs (oddly, in Koln, Germany) and decided on 10x magnification, but I ended up buying over the internet...from Ebay, no less....

I bought a pair of compacts for my other half (we're going on safari together) and a pair of full size for myself.

Compacts:

I bought these from a German company via the French eBay site.....complicated, eh?

Seben Sahara 10x26



"Barium-Crown 4 Glass, full rubber armoring, fogproof, waterproof and nitrogen-purged"

They really are SUPERB - can't recommend them highly enough as a compact. I paid £21 including shipping, which is unbelievably cheap for products of this quality. We can just afford to throw them in a bag whenever we go out anywhere walking now - great!

Full size:

Burris Landmark Rf 10x42:



1. Waterproof, safe under 1 meter water
2. Multi-Coated Optics
3. Extended Eye Relief for Optimum Viewing With or Without Eyeglass
4. Bak-4 Prisms for Sharp, Detailed Image
5. Durable Rubber Camouflage Armoring
6. Twist-up Eyecups
7. Includes Carrying Case, Neck strap, and Lens Cloth

Magnification : 10x
Objective lens : 42mm
Focus System : Center
Prism System : BaK-4
Field of View : 365'@1000yds
Eye Relief : 17mm
Exit Pupil : 5.25mm"

Again, a fantastic pair of bins (although they did come with a VERY cheap case and cord, which I've had to swap for £2 via another eBayer.

These were bought off the US eBay site from a guy in Hong Kong. They arrived in 3 days and cost under £50 including shipping....Which is stunning, considering I've seen them for over £150 over here.

So - thanks for the advice, especially the recommendation for buying Burris. I'll let you know how I get on with the safari!

[TX-RAT]

12. And the winner is " Tx-Rat

Not familiar with the Seben Sahara's, but as with most German optics, they should be top notch.

Burris is and excellent choice for the price range you mentioned, clear, bright and durable. Enjoy

Another suggestion would be a Bino Buddy from Crooked Horn Outfitters. They keep the bino's from flopping around and banging you in the chest, but still give you free range of motion. Spend a day walking around with bino's hanging around your neck and you'll see what i mean.

Just make sure you post some pictures from your trip.