AR15: hard to clean? other Qs.

[Deep13]

This was posted in "guns" but was locked with the suggestion that I move it here. Apparently, "guns" is not the proper forum for discussing guns.

"The guy who owns the local pistol range is always trying to sell me stuff. Apparently, what I "need" is an AR-15 with a .22lr conversion kit so I can shoot 0.223 at the outdoor target range and 0.22lr indoors during winter. Pretty much all I shoot is at stationary paper targets.

"Here's my concern: I don't like automatics because they are filth magnets. I assume the AR15 is no different. I already have a 10/22 Deluxe Sporter and it is a bear to keep clean. 0.223 does not strike me as an especially good target round. It's fast, but its light weight can destabilize the trajectory and be susceptible to cross wind. Also, as a home defense weapon for my paranoid end of the world scenario, 0.223 can go right through the wall and into a neighbor's house.

"I was actually considering a Marlin 0.357 carbine. It's faster and heavier than a 0.22lr. From a carbine, it can go 1600 or 1700 fps. Plus, as a handgun caliber it is relatively cheap, can be shot indoors and can use the same ammunition as a revolver. Lever action carbines are much easier to clean than automatics and really, how fast does it really need to be. It is not a 0.308, but I figure it is good enough for the 100 yard range.

"What do you think? Is the dealer right? Am I? Am I nuts for screwing around with carbines and should just get a single shot 0.308?

Post script: I am a biased against shotguns because I do not shoot them at the range. Anyway, I already have a 0.380 Berretta in the unlikely event that we get burgled while we are home. My paranoid end of the world scenarios are just that, protection from anarchy in case the town runs out of gasoline or nat. gas or electricity or gets hit with a bird flu epidemic resulting in a town-wide quarantine. I shoot rifles and pistols for recreation and anything I get would have to be suited for that.

[Redneck Socialist]

1. Shoot what you like to shoot and don't worry about what anyone else thinks

Lever guns are way cooler than semi-autos in my book, so I would urge you to get the Marlin. If squeezing the absoulute last bit of accuracy out of a gun is your thing you would be better served by a bolt action of whatever caliber floats your boat, but for all round good times fun a lever is hard to beat.

[arkie dem]

2. ARs aren't that hard to keep clean,

and the 223 is an highly accurate round. I had a Savage FP10 bolt rifle that would put 5 rounds in less than 1/3m.o.a. My Ar carbine isn't nearly as accurate, but accuate enough for me. I wouldn't buy a AR for home defense.

For home defense the scattergun or a good quality semi auto pistol in 9mm or 40S&W would be my choice. Your 380 Berreta is fine with the right ammo.

[benEzra]

3. Some thoughts...

I don't own an AR, but I have shot a few and they are neat guns. I also own a Ruger mini-14 in .223/5.56x45mm.

(1) I have no idea about cleaning issues since I don't own an AR, but I know that .22LR ammunition is often fairly dirty compared to good centerfire ammunition. I own a civilian AK lookalike (SAR-1) and it stays pretty clean, but it uses a long-stroke gas piston instead of the AR's direct impingement system.

(2) .223 is an excellent target round; the trajectory isn't that much different from .270 Winchester, IIRC. 69-grain match loads are plenty accurate beyond 600 yards with a good shooter, if the rifle is up to it. AR-15 type rifles are generally more accurate out of the box than lever guns, approaching the accuracy of a good bolt-action with the right ammunition. A3 type uppers let you mount optics very easily.

(3) .223 JHP's penetrate less in wallboard and other building materials than most handgun rounds (combination of lightweight/fragile bullet and high velocity). I like 55-grain JHP's for my mini-14, but the 40- and 45-grain JHP and VMAX type loads are even less penetrative.

(4) .223 is the second-cheapest centerfire rifle caliber to shoot, after 7.62x39mm. I would imagine that it's cheaper than .357, or at least comparable.

[Squatch]

4. I freaking hate cleaning AR's

The bolt has 7 locking lugs plus the extractor, which makes cleaning the chamber a pain in the ass.

That being said, the AR is a fun little rifle to shoot with.