On my first visit to this forum. (a firearm-related question)

[Drum]

And may I begin by stating that it is not to snipe or do battle. I believe---now more than ever---about the fundamental elegance of our Founders setting-up of this country, and passionately about all of the Constitution's and Bill of Right's amendments, including the Second. I do not believe that being a solid Democrat precludes any of it.

No, I came because I wanted to pose a question, to anyone who might care to respond. Though I have no grudges nor bad experiences, and though I have felt safe living in NYC for these 17 years, I am considering purchasing a personal firearm. Of course, I want to do it completely within the law (permits etc, whatever is required) but my post has a more time-sensitive aspect, which is why I reach out for your help.

I am about to set out (Wednesday) on a 2-week roadtrip out of state, and am wondering this: does NY permit a gun to be bought out of state and then licensed upon return? If I travel from 500 miles away with this "pre-licensed" weapon back here, am I in for a world of trouble? Are there precautions I can take to prevent the trouble? I ask this because I will be traveling to other states, and I don't know of their purchasing policies (one is the state I grew up in.) If it's simpler to do out there, I'd consider making my purchase then and catching up with everything else as soon as I return home.

I repeat, I'm not looking to buy something from a criminal...not looking for a suspicious weapon or anything like that. I'm just considering buying a handgun, and am pretty sure they're not for legal sale in here in my city, while I think they are more easily bought elsewhere. Perhaps I am wrong? NYers encouraged to reply!

All of your input will be gratefully received.

Thanks,
D


(REPOST: I erroneously posted this in the 'Guns' Forum a short time ago, and thread was rightly locked.)

[Wcross]

1. You can not leagally buy a handgun out of state.

You have to be a resident of the State that you purchase the gun in. (If you buy from a dealer) In New york state you must have a permit before you purchase a handgun. You will be in violation of the law if you purchase out of state from an individual and bring the gun home to New York.
You can buy a gun from a dealer out of state and have them send it to a New York state FFL dealer. You will still have to get a handgun permit before you take the gun home.
From what I understand it is difficult to get a handgun permit in New York State. It is nearly immpossible to get one in New York City. (unless you ahave connections)

[Drum]

2. Thanks Wcross

for replying. I appreciate knowing these things, as I wouldn't want to make a mistake, just quite ignorant of the laws of "sequence" in these things. I see it is a more complicated process here, and I didn't know that the origins of the gun were so important. Word seems to be that the licensing process here takes 3/4 of a year to complete, so I guess I've got lots of time to think this over (since I have no special connections to expedite it.)
Thanks for writing back! :hi:

[Wcross]

3. Have you given any thought on what type?

Revolvers are the most dependable, they never jam or stovepipe. If you prefer a semi-auto I would think about a 1911 type. They have some very good safety features (grip safety as well as a manual safety).

[Drum]

4. Just beginning to think about this...

So I'm not really sure about what I want.

I am tending to think semi-auto. Only firsthand info I have is from going (1st time) to a shooting range in Arizona with two friends, about 8 years ago. We all chose different weapons to try. One friend got the big silver .44, one got a Baretta ("James Bond's gun"), and I tried a Glock. I found the Glock to be very jumpy---I didn't get a good impression from the trigger feel. The .44 was beautiful and quite a good feel of squeeze and fire, but what a cannon! We all enjoyed the smaller Beretta the most.

Really, I have no idea.... Given the complexities of the whole licensing and interstate transport thing, maybe I'd be smart to use this roadtrip to visit some gun ranges and try things out.

I will check out 1911, whatever that is. What's stovepipe? Do you know of a good link or two that helps with this selection process?

[progressivegunowner]

5. Go for a revolver at first...

Revolvers are easier to use in general and more reliable. Semi-autos require a little care to stay dependable over the years, and sometimes the magazine springs (the magazine is what holds the bullets, properly referred to as cartridges) wear at, and the magazine needs replaced.

As far as what cartridge the gun should be in, it depends on the usage. For self defense purposes, I would go for a 2 or 4 inch .357 Magnum at first. The reason being, the .357 Magnums is very capable of shooting .38 Specials, which are less powerful and don't kick as much, in order to become acquinted with your firearms. Also, for a note on barrel length, if this is intended to be a home defense gun, the 4 inch is probably preferable as it won't have as much muzzle flash for nighttime conditions. For concealed carry (which is probably highly illegal in NYC, as they don't like people being able to defend themselves), a 2 inch barrel would be more concealable (but also note it would kick a little more).

Also, if you can afford it, the best thing for becoming acquinted with firearms in general is lots of practice, and for this, getting a revolver in .22 LR (a .22 rimfire) is highly recommended. It's not powerful (so it's not recommended for self defense), but they are as accurate as you would ever want them to be, they don't kick much, and you can buy about 500 rounds with a 10 dollar bill, which provides hours of fun and valuable range time. Depending on what type of gun you get, whatever .22 you get should be very similar in style and mechanisms to whatever you choose. In other words, if you get a 9mm, a semi-auto pistol .22 would be good for learning, but if it's a .357 (or .38) revolver, a .22 revolver would be recommended.

Above all, get something that you feel comfortable with and can become familar with quickly (as you may have to use it in a life threatening situation if it's a self defense gun), but in a powerful enough cartridge that it will be able to stop whatever threat you are facing immediately (if it comes down to it).

Another thing, if it is being purchased for self defense, I would highly recommend famaliarizing yourself with all the laws regarding handguns and self defense in your area, and also attending a handgun training class (before purchasing) in order to learn how to use a handgun, and also what types might be best suited for you.

Good luck in your endeavors, and as always with any gun, use common sense when handling it, always assume it is loaded (even if you 'know' it isn't), always check to see if it's loaded before handling it in any way, and NEVER point or aim it at anything you are not willing to destroy.

[Drum]

6. Thanks very much

for all of the advice! I'm taking it all to heart, and will deliberate carefully before any action...I think you're right in saying that getting familiar is the first step. I hope to find a few ranges on my trip (PA, WV, OH) where I can rent or try a couple of things.

Much appreciated! Sorry to be so brief (your post deserves more) but I am able to take off on my trip now and shall do so.
I'll be online intermittantly (between campgrounds) so I will check back here.
Thanks, y'all, for the responses.
:) Drum

[Wcross]

7. This is a 1911.

It is a .45acp caliber which was used by our military until the late 80's with good results. It went into service before world war one. The military has been moving back to this design after its failed experiment with the 9mm berreta.
They come in all sizes- from a 4 inch barrel model on up. I own a full size that holds 13+1 and a compact model that holds 7+1. Why do I prefer them? It can not be fired unless your hand is on the grip. The same can not be said for a Glock.
I own a Kimber pro-carry 1911 model made in Queens, N.Y., why not think about Kimber to support a local business?

http://www.kimberamerica.com/

[Drum]

10. Great info

Thanks Wcross...I'll look into Kimber.
:)

[benEzra]

8. It is very, very difficult to legally own a gun in NYC...

and it is much easier to own a long gun (rifle or shotgun) than a handgun.

Here's a rundown on the NYC rifle permitting process:

http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/nypd/pdf/dclm/title38-rcny.pdf

Getting a handgun premise permit (i.e., city permission to keep a handgun in your own home) is much harder, but it can be done if you have LOTS of time and a fair amount of money. Getting a handgun transport/carry permit is pretty much impossible unless you are politically connected--if you haven't made any big cash donations to Bloomie lately, that's probably out of the question for you.

I understand that there are lawyers who specialize in shepherding citizens through the byzantine NYC permitting process, but I have no details.

[progressivegunowner]

9. If for home defense...

Getting a shotgun might be the best way to go. A good pump gun with a relatively short barrel length wouldn't be as difficult to obtain as some of your other options, and it really doesn't need any adjustments, and you really could use most shot sizes as well, since the range is likely to be less than ten yards. At such close range, even the smaller shot sizes can be very deadly, as most of the shot is contained within about a 5 inch circle (or even smaller) and could probably end the assault, without the addition worry of penetrating through apartment walls and endangering your neighbor as well. But it would still probably be best to use a relatively large shot size, like at least 2s, if not buckshot.

But your best bet on the shot size question is to consult somebody who knows, and who would be able to advise on what would fit your needs. I admit that I do not know enough on the question to really be able to grant advice on that end.

Also, one could get a semi-automatic rifle, but this would still probably be very difficult in NYC. If one is to get a rifle, don't get anything too powerful (a .308 would go through your neighbor's apartment and maybe into their neighbor's apartment....), but a .223 or a 7.62x39 might be worth considering. Also keep in mind that bullet design would dictate the amount of penetration as well. Of course, you could also get a lever action in a relatively powerful handgun round like a .357 Magnum. It is best to consider all your options before doing anything.

[Drum]

11. Thank you, progressivegunowner.

I'm gonna stick with small, though, for now.

[meldroc]

13. Shotguns are great home defense guns.

Especially pump guns. Just FYI, shotguns these days come in three flavors - break-open guns, which frequently come with double-barrels, where you push a lever to open up the breach & put shell(s) in the chamber(s), pump action shotguns, which have a single barrel, and a magazine tube just below the barrel. You pump the foregrip back, then forwards to chamber a shell. Then there are semi-automatic shotguns, which work pretty much like semi-automatic rifles - you chamber a shell by pulling the bolt back and letting it spring forward, then each pull of the trigger fires the gun and causes the next round to be chambered by the energy of the shell.

Pump guns are nice because while they do have some moving parts, they aren't too terribly complicated, and you get the oh-so-badass ka-clack sound the gun makes when you pump it, which is very effective at scaring away intruders.

Shotguns are very powerful weapons, especially those that fire 12 gauge rounds - they have a great deal of stopping power, but they also have a great deal of recoil, so you'll probably need a bit of training in proper form so you don't turn your shoulder all black & blue. If you're of small stature, you might go with a smaller caliber such as 20 gauge.

Oh, almost forgot. In many places with obnoxious gun control laws, it may be easier to get a shotgun than a handgun.

[Deep13]

12. Okay, here goes.

Yes, I can see how discussion about firearms, self defense and gun laws belong in "outdoor life" rather than "guns". :eyes:

Don't know much about the interstate laws except that the buy one from out-of-state it has to be sent to a local, licensed gun dealer.

Since NYC will not allow conceal or carry and since a pistol permit is a Sisyphean ordeal, I suggest the Marlin 1894C carbine. It is a short, handy rifle chambered for either 0.357 mag. or 0.38 sp. (One rifle does both, not either-or.) They are accurate, reliable, use common revolver cartridges and are legal in every state. The 18" barrel makes it user friendly in tight spaces.

I like revolvers because they need little attention and are very reliable. Your only reasonable choice, imo, are Ruger and S&W. Stay away from the ultra-light models. You can load a revolver, put it away and it will still be ready to shoot a hundred years from now. Automatics have springs under tension when loaded that need to be relieved every now and again. Also, they are a bee-atch to keep clean. I don't care for the 1911 myself because they are single-action only. For the first shot one must either work the slide or cock the hammer manually before it will shoot.

Someone asked what stove-piping is. That is an ejection error in an automatic where the empty case gets stuck in the ejector and sticks out like a stove-pipe.

The 2nd Amendment speaks of the right to keep and bear arms, but does not define just what that right is or how extensive it is. In other words, it does not say there shall be a right of individuals to keep and bear hand or shoulder-mounted firearms regardless of how dangerous technology makes them. It only says that the "right", whatever that might entail, cannot be restricted by the Feds. It does state that the purpose is state security which suggest that the Framers had regulation in mind. (Especially since they use the phrase "well regulated.")

[krispos42]

14. Get a Ruger Single-Six

These revolvers come in a variety of barrel lengths and come with two cylinders, one is a .22 Magnum Rimfire, and one is a .22 LR rimfire.

The Single-Six is a cowboy-style revolver, with the cock-to-fire action. They come with adjustable sights, and Rugers are known for their quality. They also retain their value well, so if you want to sell or trade it later, you'll get good money for it.

A box of .22 LRs costs about 2 cents a round. You can use that for practice. It is not very powerful, about 80 foot-pounds of energy, so it is really not good for self-defense, but it is very good for practice. Cheap, with very light recoil.

The .22 Mag is at least twice as powerful as the .22 LR,but more expensive and if you use hollowpoints in the gun it would make for an adequate (if not spectacular) self-defense cartridge.

Then later on you can get a serious revolver, probably a .357 Magnum, and do most of your practicing your technique and aiming with the cheap .22LR ammo, then end your day at the range with a box or two of .38 Specials. Revolvers keep better for long periods of time being unused than semi-autos.

I would keep the revolver ready with some quality +P ammunition. The .38 Special +P adds a little bit of oomph to standard .38s without crossing into the flash-and-thunder level of a .357 Magnum. I read of a new .38 Special +P cartridge from Buffalo Bore that came highly praised in the magazine "Gun Tests", which does not take any advertising.
http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#38spl

A Single-Six costs about $400, and a Ruger GP100 .357 Mag costs about $550. At least that's the MSRP. :-)

Another option for you is the pistol-caliber carbine. This is a short rifle that fires pistol ammunition. Ruger makes one chambered in 9mm and one in .40S&W. They are considered "long guns", and are easier to get than a pistol. Because the barrel is longer than a pistol's, you get more velocity and energy out of the ammunition, and it is easier to shoot than a pistol. Because you live in a limited-magazine-capacity state, you should go with the .40.

[Deep13]

15. Knock about 10 or 20% off that MSRP for retail.

The Ruger pistol-caliber carbines are pretty cool. Not too big, either.

I suppose I ought to mention that the concensus for ultimate home-invader repulsion is the 12-ga. shotgun.