Don't forget: Webb & Sen. Barfbag will debate on MTP

[Island Blue]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3898804/

[babylonsister]

1. Are you watching? Macaca sounds so stoopid! nt

[Island Blue]

3. When he wasn't lying during the debate,

he was playing dodge ball. And PL-EASE. He didn't know that Macaca was a word when he said it? How stupid does he think people are? I think Webb did a good job. He sounded reasonable, intelligent and well informed.

[wisteria]

2. I though the debate was good. Webb came off well and he

sounded very reasonable with most issues except that old news about his opinions about women in the military from 27 years ago. What was with that- especially that comment about horny women wanting to join. If if wasn't from 27 years ago,I would have been very offended, but that block headiness was common back then.

[globalvillage]

4. I agree.

Except for the women in the military stuff, which he did OK with considering it was pretty asinine, he was very good.
Allen, as usual, was an ass. I think Webb has a good shot.

[sandnsea]

5. More please

It's football Sunday around here. I'm presuming (hoping) he never actually used the words "horny women", to start. But was there a clip or quote from Webb about women joining the military to "get a man" or some such? That would be so ironic because my memory of the time is that women in the service were all lesbians. :crazy:

[wisteria]

6. Yes, he did suggest it would be a .... view passage from transcript

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14815993/page/6/

MR. RUSSERT: When you say “Being in the Naval Academy is a horny woman’s dream,” you regret that.

MR. WEBB: Well, I do regret that. And I, you know, I’ve said...

MR. RUSSERT: There’s been, there’s been...

MR. WEBB: ...you know, I’ve said—there’s many, there’s many pieces in this article that if, if I were a, you know, a more mature individual, I wouldn’t have written. And I’ve, and I’ve tried to say that and I’ve tried to show by my conduct when I had positions in government that I, I am open to, to assisting women succeed in all the areas where that’s possibl

[sandnsea]

7. oh my heavens

What a wild thing to say. I just don't know about these Reagan era converts. They're better than the Republicans they're hopefully replacing, but it'll be interesting to see what they do in the Senate just the same.

Thanks for the transcript.

[whometense]

8. just found this great picture

front page of the New York Times:

Kevin Wolf/Associated Press

A campaign of contrasts, right down to footwear: Senator George Allen, left, Republican of Virginia, favors cowboy boots, while his opponent, James Webb, a Democrat, prefers his son’s old combat boots.

Says it all, doesn't it???

[Island Blue]

9. Great photo! Yes it does say it all!

The only way you can tell the difference between Barfbag's boots and *'s boots is that Barfbag's boots don't have his job title tattooed on them.

[whometense]

10. The two of them

are doing their level best to permanently trash the good name of cowboys everywhere.

[wisteria]

11. Oh, that picture of Bush's boots disgusts me. It appears he needs

to make everyone aware of who he is. (look at my boots, I'm President of the United States)

[Inuca]

13. I saw this before...

... and I could not believe my eyes then, and I cannot believe my eyes now. GROSS!!! Having class in the true sense of the word is not about elitism and not even so much about background, education, etc. I see it as a more profound human quality, difficult to put into words but quite easy to identify when you face it, or when you face its very opposite, like in this case.

[wisteria]

14. You are right- Bush has no class! n/t

[Inuca]

12. What an unbelievable photo!

Neither goes particularly well with a suit though...

[whometense]

15. it would be great for

the "Had Enough?" series.

http://www.needlenose.com/hadenough

[beachmom]

16. My Two Cents on the Debate

I thought Allen's performance was one non-stop bullshitter filibuster. He wouldn't answer some of the basic questions like the torture bill (at first, I thought he was hinting he might back McCain's - surprising indeed - but then he dug himself out of THAT hole by muddying his message at the end). I was amused with his IWR yes vote defense. Because we've had to defend Kerry so much, it was interesting to hear the Republican CONTINUED defense of that vote. At first Allen sounded reasonable, giving reasons of getting U.N. weapons inspectors on the ground and involving the U.N. Then it was like he said "yadayadayadyada . . . we went to war and it was the right thing to do". Absolutely hilarious the way he glazed over the fact Bush did NOT do what he told Congress what he said he was going to do. And anyone pick up his bogus comment about how Iraq now protects women's rights? Then why are women FORCED to wear the veil when under Saddam they weren't?

What I've always said about Webb is he is somebody who always tells the truth, even to his own detriment. He should have said he was DEAD wrong on that essay on Women in Combat in 1979, but since he doesn't feel that way, he wouldn't. Webb was excellent on Iraq except when he said anyone for a date certain to end a war hasn't seen war. Um, respectfully disagree Mr. Webb.

I did have the gnawing feeling that Russert's debate will simply depress the vote in Virginia -- like we have the choice between a racist or a sexist -- take your pick. That was unfortunate, because I felt that Webb had an excellent critique of Bush's Iraq War and Allen's complicitness in it.

[TayTay]

17. I didn't take that Date Certain thing as a putdown of Kerry

or anyone else. No one is proposing immediate withdrawal from Iraq because it can't logistically be done and because it would be missing Kerry's point. Kerry has also never said that he has a Date Certain. He has a target date and is malleable about that, depending on what the commanders think and what the situation is over there. If it came down to two months from July 31, 2007 and the situation said that we can't withdraw without inducing a great loss of life, then withdrawal would be rethought.

[wisteria]

18. I agree. I think we all need to be realistic and reasonable about an

Iraq withdraw.

[beachmom]

19. But that's the exact wording Hillary used at the Take Back America

conference. She said she didn't believe in a "date certain" and got booed. I agree that Kerry's plan is not a fixed date, but rather a target date. But I can definitely see Webb on the Senate floor voting down the Kerry/Feingold proposal by using that Eisenhower quote.

But, heck, maybe you're right and I intrepreted it wrong. And, I'm just nitpicking. Obviously, I REALLY want Webb to win, and think he will be an excellent voice in the Senate, especially in matters of the military, national security, and the Iraq War.

[TayTay]

20. There is a difference. The Date Certain thing depends

on IRaqis as well. However, Allen and the remnants of the Neo-con true believers think that if we stay and just keep doing what we are doing it will all work out.

There is a logical line of thinking that gets us from this by Sen. KErry on 12/8/05 to his comments on 4/22/06.

Council on Foreign Relations speech:

MODERATOR: So just to try to quantify it, 160,000 now; this time next year, if you were in charge —

KERRY: I believe you could get at least 100,000 out over that period of time, bring it down to somewhere in the vicinity of 30(,000) to 40,000, and then, you know, you’re going to have to see where you are. But the — that would be my goal. And I would not do it on a fixed automatic table; it has to be results-coordinated. And that’s the way I would do it.

MODERATOR: And you don’t buy the argument of some who say that, look, Americans are the focus of the jihadists and the insurgents; let’s just get them all out, out of the — after the election?

KERRY: I think if the United — I mean, when you say after the election, you look at — look at Congressman Murtha’s proposal that has drawn such heated fire from the right and elsewhere. He has talked about approximately a six-month period. But he’s also talked about sort of a results-connected process. He sees it in six months. I don’t. I think it’s going to take longer, and I see it as more connected to the series of events that I’ve talked about.

But in the end, if you just up and left in a matter of a month or two months, and there isn’t a sufficient base underneath you, you will, as I said in my prepared comments, encourage the radicalization of the region, have an enormous negative impact on those who are seeking this transformation in the Middle East that I talked about, and, I think, endanger our interests as well as other people’s interests in the region.

But I think you have to find the best way to get out of a terrible mess that has been exacerbated by almost every single decision they have made. Think how extraordinary it is that almost three years afterwards, we’re just getting around to this business of doing what we’re doing now. It’s stunning, folks. And we still have the same secretary of Defense who was the architect of this.

It is entirely consistent and logical to go from that speech in 12/8 to the one in April:

Our call to action is clear. Iraqi leaders have responded only to deadlines—a deadline to transfer authority to a provisional government, and a deadline to hold three elections. It was the most intense 11th hour pressure that just pushed aside Prime Minister Jaafari and brought forward a more acceptable candidate. And it will demand deadline toughness to reign in Shiite militias Sunnis say are committing horrific acts of torture every day in Baghdad.

So we must set another deadline to extricate our troops and get Iraq up on its own two feet.

Iraqi politicians should be told that they have until May 15 to deal with these intransigent issues and at last put together an effective unity government or we will immediately withdraw our military. If Iraqis aren’t willing to build a unity government in the five months since the election, they’re probably not willing to build one at all. The civil war will only get worse, and we will have no choice anyway but to leave.

If Iraq’s leaders succeed in putting together a government, then we must agree on another deadline: a schedule for withdrawing American combat forces by year’s end. Doing so will actually empower the new Iraqi leadership, put Iraqis in the position of running their own country and undermine support for the insurgency, which is fueled in large measure by the majority of Iraqis who want us to leave their country.

Hillary isn't even where Sen. Kerry was last year when he saw 30,000 - 40,000 troops still in Iraq in Dec of 2006. And that was before he came out for a timed withdrawal. She is still non-commmital on troop withdrawal at all. (Ahm, again, the 30,000 - 40,000 was before the Golden Dome was blown up in Samarra and it became a real civil war.) These are very different positions.

[wisteria]

22. I agree with you on the wording, I prefer targeted date.

However, I think Hillary got booed for not only that remark, but because she has refused to say her vote was wrong or address all the mistakes and the mess over there. She wouldn't say it was time to leave at the time of the conference.

[ginnyinWI]

21. I think Webb is one smart cookie

Granted, he was up against an empty suit, but I still thought he was very smart, well-informed and sure of himself--especially for a non-politician with limited experience with the likes of MTP. He comported himself very well. Of course, being on the correct, sensible, real-world side of things helps. All ya have to do is tell the truth.