Somewhat OT: check out this brilliant analysis

[whometense]

by Phoenix Woman at Steve Gilliard's blog: http://rateyourmusic.com/yaccs/p/commentsn/blog_id=90000045368_and_blog_entry_id=116840381195613950#9007364

Think of the 2000 election. Ralph Nader sucked seven times as many votes from Al Gore as Pat Buchanan sucked from Geogre W, Bush. (Granted, Nader had the active assistance of the RNC, but still.)

When the crunch time hits, the far-righties stick with the GOP, whereas the far-lefties flee the Dems. This is because of how the left and right in this country came to be.

The farther left you go, the more likely you are to have your beliefs influenced by the old Marxist idea that participating in electoral politics is a bad thing, as The Man has gamed the system and there's no point in being a part of it.

The farther right you go, there is a similar dislike/contempt for democracy, but this dislike/contempt spurs the righties on to use the system to further their own ends, not to run away from it.

The left, up until the last few years, spent much if not most of the last three decades running away from electoral politics just as the right=wingers and evangelicals increased their political involvement. That's one of the reasons things gradually have been getting suckier in this country.

-- Phoenix Woman

BTW, here's her blog: http://phoenixwoman.blogspot.com/

[Democrafty]

1. Ooh, good find!

Also, check out the most recent post to her blog. Where have I heard that question before?

[whometense]

2. Wow!

Serendipitous, no?

But it seems like almost invariably the most levelheaded people posting on the web are kindly disposed towards JK, doesn't it?

[Democrafty]

3. I think so.

They are not always JK partisans, but they know better than to trash a good Dem who is obviously a good person.

But you already know that. I typed it for the lurkers :)

[whometense]

4. Nice.

And yes, absolutely. :-)

[Dr Ron]

5. Far left vs. Far Right

Another difference is that there are more marked differences between the far left and Democrats than the far right and Republicans.

The far left has views which are quite different from the Democrats on many issues. While there are aras of agreement, the far left is unlikely to ever be setting the Democratic agenda.

In contrast the far right overlaps considerably with the GOP. Some years more moderate factions control the party. Other years when the far right of the GOP controls ithe party there isn't that vast a difference between the GOP and the rest of the far right.

In Buchanan's case it is a bit murkier since in some cases he had views which were different from the GOP but weren't necessarilly further right such as his positons on trade and avoiding foreign entanglements such as Iraq. Ironically some of the areas where he differed the most from the GOP are areas he has in common with many on the left. Of course there are far more areas where Buchanan's views are considtent with the far right of the GOP. Fighting the conservative culture wars is far more important to Buchanan than opposing the Iraq war.

[Democrafty]

7. The debate at Liberal Values is a good illustration of this.

There are those of us who believe you can be quite leftist and still participate in the free market system, and then there are folks who would call that a Republican idea.

[Dr Ron]

8. I see a lot of this at Liberal Values

Since my posts on social issues and opposition to the war are similar to the views of the far left, I think I wind up with some far left readers who expect me to be with them on all issues, and are then shocked when I have a post on economic matters supporting the free market system.

A while back I got a long email from someone who argued that liberals have been the most successful when they pushed a more progressive economic policy. (He also insinuated that many of us were not doing this out of fear of being insulted by the other side--as if we don't get enough insults for supporting abortion, separation of church and state, and opposing the war.) I wish he had entered this as a comment instead of sending it by private email. Besides responding with an argument that Democrats are currently more likely to be successful with an economic policy supporting small business and the free market, and that a far left economic policy would be disasterous poltically, I would also point out that this is what I personally prefer.

Along these lines I also lost one of the frequent commenters when suggested support for civil unions in the states where gay marriage bans are popular as a way to preserve their rights in the hopes that eventually people will become accustomed to civil unions and lose their fear of gay marriage. He became quite upset over this, considering pushing for anything less than full legalization of gay marriage now as being wrong. Needless to say he was strongly anti-Kerry despite Kerry's overall high rank on votes on gay and lesbian issues.

[europegirl4jfk]

6. She's right; I've seen this happening often

I would like to share a very personal story with you. Julie's dad is a political activist and has been one for his whole life. Stunningly his life experience is somewhat similar to JK's. He's French and his war was Algeria (he is a few years older than JK). Very young at this time, he volunteered for the army and became a para-trooper in order to get away from a violent father. 19 month of a colonial war in Algeria were as traumatizing for him as it was for those in Vietnam that later gave testimony during the Winter Soldier hearings, and when he came back he became a political peace activist. He joined the socialist labor unions and gave his testimony at different regional hearings about the war. He then got involved with the Socialist Party and was elected to their leadership but as he soon got the feeling that he would become too much a part of the establishment, he eventually left. Exactly as described by Phoenix Woman: "The farther left you go, the more likely you are to have your beliefs influenced by the old Marxist idea that participating in electoral politics is a bad thing, as The Man has gamed the system and there's no point in being a part of it."

I think it's a shame, especially as the man who supported him in the party's leadership, Michel Rocard, became Prime Minister under Mitterrand later. Well, my friend is still an activist and became involved with party politics again in the last 15 years (the Green Party) but I still think he could have achieved more if he had stayed with the Socialists.

That's what I love with JK. He started out being an activist but became seriously involved in the political process even if it took him some time to get there.

[wisteria]

9. Thanks for sharing your story. It makes you stop and think about

how best to achieve the things that matter the most.

[whometense]

10. What a fascinating story.

Thanks for telling it. And what a heritage Julie has!