I would title this, BUT my anger would take over

[fedupinBushcountry]

WASHINGTON -- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's pollster fired an opening salvo at Sen. Barack Obama and John Edwards yesterday, claiming their campaigns are "stalled or falling" -- and suggesting Obama isn't tough enough to withstand GOP attacks in 2008.

A day after Clinton announced she would run for president -- and win -- her campaign's chief strategist Mark Penn sent a memo to reporters intended to offset an avalanche of articles emphasizing Clinton's high disapproval ratings and questioning her electability.

"She is not just strong, but the strongest Democrat in the field," wrote Penn, referring to a new national poll showing Clinton with a commanding 20-plus-point lead over Obama and Edwards, the Democratic nominee as vice president in 2004....

***

...Penn...stated that no other Democrat is tough enough to beat back Sen. John McCain or former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani.

In a clear reference to Obama's lack of political experience on the national stage, Penn wrote: "Some of the commentators look at the ratings of people who have not yet been in the cross-fire, and say they might have a better chance. Recent history shows the opposite."

He then set his sights on Sen. John Kerry and former Vice President Al Gore, who also might run in 2008. "The last two Democratic presidential candidates started out with high favorable ratings and ended up on Election Day -- and today -- far more polarizing and disliked nationally," said the pollster, who cut his teeth on President Bill Clinton's 1996 re-election campaign....

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-ushil...

[whometense]

1. Wow.

Nuclear already? I am soooooo unimpressed, and getting more so every day. Don't like her scorched earth tactics. She already looks like a bully.

Oh, and P.S., Mark Penn, I think our definitions of strength are not at all the same.

[MBS]

3. you took the words right out of my mouth

I agree with every single word, whometense

[_dynamicdems]

2. It's posted in DU.

This is a huge mistake. It is only going to remind America what a shrew she is. Talk about being polarizing.

[Mass]

4. It shows Hillary's weakness.

She is the uncontested frontrunner with 20 points on her closest follower in the poll, the media have all but nominated her, she has been running for one day, and one of her guys is actually defending her.

How insecure is she?

[ginnyinWI]

7. so she's got her very own Karl Rove now?

This kind of politics won't sell. It's one thing to attack an opponent of the opposite party, but within the party is another thing. The last primary was fairly free of it, resulting in a lot of unity by the time we got to the convention. This is a bad sign for Hillary, I agree. Look what happened when Dean and Gephardt were warring against each other--both lost.

[blm]

17. What were the names of Tonya Harding's goons?

.

[Mass]

5. delete - dup

[MH1]

6. She is the Lieberman of 2008, for me.

In the early days of the runup to the 2004 primaries, when asked if there was any potential Dem candidate I wouldn't vote for, the only name I struggled with was Joe Lieberman. (I am a Democrat. I will vote for the nominee. Unless the nominee is really, truly awful).

If, Goddess forbid, Hillary gets the nomination, I will not even consider voting for her in the general unless it is a close race. Which, sigh, in PA it probably will be.

:banghead:

[whometense]

8. I have pretty much the same reaction.

Re: JK

Is it just me, or does this particular news item make anyone else think that he is being very smart by letting her show her true colors before he announces either way?

She's still taking shots at him, but they look even more gratuitous and mean because he's not even a candidate.

I sure hope he runs, though.

[MBS]

20. yeah, I also think that JK is being very smart

about waiting to announce . Not that any of the stupid rumors and gratuitous attacks should make him take his toys and go home : on the contrary, I hope that this nonsense will spur him on, should he harbor any lingering doubts. But with every news item about 2008, I feel better and better about his delay. With every day he waits, the more he is in control: of HIS message, made in HIS style, at HIS pace, in HIS way. And hopefully he will come out with (as Marjorie wrote earlier) the full John Kerry, all guns blazing, ready to rumble, ready to lead, read to lead our country out of this desperate mess.

[whometense]

22. Be still my heart.

Oh yeah.

[karynnj]

27. Not to mention

He just has to be himself - mature, well-mannered, calm and self confident.

[TayTay]

9. There are risks in this strategy. Big risks.

PROF SEES PEER EFFECT IN POLITICS
Capital Times, ALL, Sec. METRO, p 1B (01-23-2004)
By Rob Zaleski

The prevailing view, as we all know, was that Democratic Howard Dean would, at the very least, make a strong, respectable showing in the Iowa caucuses.

But last Monday afternoon, before the results were tabulated, Kathy Cramer Walsh wasn't sure she believed it.

An assistant professor of political science at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, the 33-year-old Walsh had heard a bunch of Dean radio ads and witnessed dozens of Dean supporters as she drove into the Hawkeye state earlier in the day to observe the proceedings.

And yet, while researching her new book, "Talking About Politics: Informal Groups and Social Identity in American Life," Walsh had concluded that while polls, political ads and media coverage do affect people's voting choices, they aren't as big an influence as is widely assumed.

A bigger factor, she believes, is how much we identify personally with the candidates. And, just as important, what the people in our own social group think of those running for office.

So, as we talked by phone Monday afternoon, Walsh questioned whether the average Iowa voter really identified with the excitable former governor from Vermont. A more likely winner, she suggested, was John Kerry, mostly because of his Vietnam credentials. Or perhaps the ultra-positive John Edwards.

(When I contacted her Wednesday, Walsh seemed both delighted and slightly taken aback that Kerry and Edwards had actually finished 1-2. But it became clear, she says, that many Iowans were turned off by the hordes of outsiders in Dean's camp who "were telling people how they ought to think.")

What it all suggests, it seems here, is that Walsh is onto something.

Granted, she isn't the first to maintain that "social identity" plays a big role in how we vote. But few experts, as far as I know, have ever suggested it's a greater influence than polls or the media or TV attack ads.

[Inuca]

10. Awful and tacky

The whole thing, but attacking Gore seems the tackiest to me. You would think she would feel some sympathy for the guy, after all they both suffered because of Bill's shenanigans.

[karynnj]

13. Interesting point

There is no way the straight arrow Al Gore was the reason a man who blew up frogs as a kid, branded students at Yale, a questionable service record in TANG, and who was a mean drunk until he was 40 could have even thought to run on "retoring horor and dignity to the White House". And all those things were known.

This likely means they KNOW he will not faor her. I really wish Kerry and Gore would join forces.

[Island Blue]

23. I do too Karyn.

That would be awesome. I can not, and will not vote for this woman. Period. Being a the yellow dog Democrat that I am, if she is the Democratic nominee, I'll just sit '08 out.

[karynnj]

26. Well , I'm not a yellow dog Democrat

I'm a white dog Democrat. Specifically a maltese.

I told my husband this morning I might write in my dog, Punky, if Hillary wins - but he doesn't believe me - sadlly I do!

[Firespirit]

15. I know

Gore isn't even running. What the hell is the point in attacking Gore, who is now admired as a leading activist for global warming? He has a lot more respect these days than the likes of Hillary.

It's repulsive. But you know, I hope she continues. I don't want her to wise up.

[karynnj]

11. This is beyond stupid as well as nasty

Since when does a frontrunner (by 20 points no less) attack all her opponents this way. Attacking simultaneously Kerry, Gore, Edwards and Obama is pretty stupid. Each has people who respect them.

With Gore and Kerry, many Democrats know they fought for us. How do these comment play to someone like the NH Dem leader, Kathy Sullivan who without pushing a Kerry run described him as a good man and good person? I know my reaction? If this were an isolated attack, you could say that this is not her stategy. But this was one of several people - all knownto be working for her, to do this.

Remember he was Liebermna's pollster in 2004. His track reord seems like McAuliffe's.

(As a side note, linking Kerry and Gore here shows he completely doesn't understand the blogosphere - this comment will anger people who would agre - the problem was Kerry did not fight back.)

[wisteria]

28. he 20 point lead must be very shaky. n/t

[Firespirit]

12. Blogged

http://www.politicalypso.com/archives/47-What-Does-Hillary-Bring.html

I'd post this on DailyKos, only I'm outed there, and I have a suspicion it wouldn't go over too well. But I want her branded and framed as the bully candidate.

[karynnj]

16. Great blog

[whometense]

18. That video was fantastic. n/t

[TayTay]

14. Okay, look at the argument.

First of all, this is an argument about favorability ratings and about how they go up and down. Sen. Clinton has some of the highes unfavorability ratings in American politics. It is risky for her to have surrogates bring this up. (People who live in glass houses, etc.)

Secondly, Sen. Clinton risks parody if she goes too far down this 'tough enough' road. This may have been an effective argument 3 years ago. It is far less effective now. She could actually be opening herself up for a huge vulnerability here.

There are openings here, legitimate openings into developing an attack strategy that counters what is here.

[karynnj]

19. There's also an issue of how this will play

I may be off base, but at least in my generation and the areas I came from (midwest) and where I've lived my adult life (NYC area in NJ), there is way less latitute for a woman to get away with this. Shrewish behavior is not strength.

Was the Wicked Witch of the West genuinely strong? (not even with supper powers). Think of movies. As a woman leader, you would think you would want to seem warm, wise, mature and able to bring people together.

The media has tried to declare that so - everyone in the Senate loves Hillary. (just as they all can't stand Kerry - who somehow managed to work even with Jesse Helmes) I would think the public may be sick of being told, contrary to what they see, that a person is nice.

One of Hillary's challanges was to prove that she is not the cold person that she was reputed to be. That may have been a lie - and oddly the perception gained among some Democrats (not me - I heard it argued) to excuse Bill. This will fit that view - like the U-tube of her going after Kerry. (esp if people view Bill Clinton's rage and Kerry's more appropriate targeted response.)

[Democrafty]

25. Yeah, if we have to hear about how she's an angry man-hater,

she kind of brought it on herself.

Sigh.

[beachmom]

29. You are correct. This is why Pelosi has been a success.

She was a stay at home Mom with 5 kids and now is a grandmother. She characterizes herself this way -- that she's stern, but can be loving, too. Even there, she was elected by her peers, not by the general public, which would be much harder. We can't deny that gender is still a barrier, and that Hillary needed to play this very carefully, so that people wouldn't say she's "something that rhymes with witch". And what does she do? Within a day of running, she falls right into that trap. With all of those brains advising her, how could they have stumbled so quickly?

[Kerry fan]

21. Someone should tell Mr. Penn -

"She is not just strong, but the strongest Democrat in the field," wrote Penn"


That odor doesn't count.

[wisteria]

24. LOL! n/t