SFRC Hearing: Bus. Mtg to consider Iraq proposals

[TayTay]

and to settle on subcommittee membership. (Well, I like that part. I actually want to know who is on the subcommittee to oversee Africa and the Near East and the Far East and so forth. Yes, there probably is medication available for the overly wonky. I will look into it, promise.)

Webcast at: http://foreign.senate.gov/index.html

[TayTay]

1. Long Biden talk about what to do

He is bringing up his resolution on the war. (Subcommittees approved unanimously. Whew, that drama is out of the way for now.)

Sen. Biden is giving the background on why a Resolution is needed.

[karynnj]

2. I joined you in listening

Biden is sure playing to the cameras.

[ginnyinWI]

3. It's on C-span 3, for those who can get it. n/t

[ginnyinWI]

5. haha--even Lugar is against the chimp.

It's nice to see Sen. Webb there, isn't it?

[TayTay]

4. Sen. Lugar is giving the Repub response

ANd he is laying down the card that a vote against this war, of any sort, will be interpreted as something that is against the troops. This will undermine support across the globe for US efforts. (Sigh!)

BTW, Sen. Biden promised that each member of the SFRC would get a chance to speak and put up amendments. Long meeting.

Also, as a note: There is a FinComm meeting at 10 am. The subject is an appointment to the Social Security job. The nominee is from Mass. So, if you see Kerry going in and out of this SFRC hearing, that's why.

[TayTay]

6. Senator Hagel.

He is speaking in support of the Biden Res.

Ugh, got interupted with a phone. (I hate it when I have to actually work at, ahm, work. LOL!)

[ginnyinWI]

7. he's doing well

Nice to see a man brave enough to confront his party because of his convictions.

[TayTay]

8. He is doing great

He is making the point that we have Americans dying for a government that can't even get a quorum in their legislature.

Hagel is on fire with this.

sigh, gone for a few minutes. Cover me.

[europegirl4jfk]

9. He is absolute amazing!

I just love this guy and his honesty. He says he doesn't care if he has a political future or not.

[ginnyinWI]

10. not just a pose with this guy

He's pounding the table and tripping over his words, he's so angry.

I think it's the Vietnam vets who feel this most accutely--they've been there.

[karynnj]

11. Dodd is speaking

He mentioned a young West Point Graduate, a captain he and Senator Kerry spoke to 3 weeks ago in Iraq, who died this past weekend. That really has to have hit the Senators hard.

[ginnyinWI]

12. quoting John Warner

Isn't it great that this is a bi-partisan effort, not a partisan squabble.

[wisteria]

17. Oh no, how sad. n/t

[beachmom]

13. Biden disagrees with a binding resolution. Explaining why. n/t

[ginnyinWI]

14. doesn't want to ratify the status quo

If they offer a binding res, it will say that the current troop levels are fine.

[TayTay]

15. So Biden is opposing without strenuously opposing.

He is making the point that the Prez still gets to manage the war, but the Congress can tell the Prez to know that things can't go on as they are right now.

Hmmmmm,

[Mass]

16. Big problem with Biden - This is not his resolution.

:sarcasm:

[karynnj]

19. Biden is really angry

Now Sununu is speaking against the Dodd resolution - because it is not his "expertise" as to how many soldiers are needed - but says the Dodd amendment should be argued.

He says that Biden's chart against Dodd, works against Biden's too. (Biden doesn't understand the point - because his doesn't mention a number. Sununu actually has a point (especially as the surge is not incredibly outside the range of the swings.

[TayTay]

21. Biden wants a more symbolic protest.

Sununu, of all people, is calling him out on this. Biden wants all things, to register protest against the Bush escalation and he doesn't want to support anything that actually does anything about the troops.

He has been called out on this by Dodd and now Sununu.

[europegirl4jfk]

18. Nice :-( Biden and Dodd arguing now :-((

That's what happens when all these guys run for president. :-( Hagel seems to be more honest right now than some of the Dems. :-(

[ginnyinWI]

20. so Dodd wants a new authorization for war?

That's what it sounds like--throw out the 2002 IWR and ask for a vote on a new one?

[karynnj]

22. Kerry up

Kerry is speaking about a reality check that he Webb, Hagel and himself feel. He is speaking of his Senate speech in 1971 - we really need the transcript. Lots of Iraq vets come to his office.

Speaking of the Captain that Kerry and Dodd met - he was against what was being done and spoke to Dodd and Kerry. Kerry just asked "How do you...."
"What are we asking the troops to do?" Mentioned Webb's son. (We need this video on U-tube) This is classic Kerry.

Kerry says this amendment sends a message, but it will float away. Have to deal withreality. This is the strongest and clearest anyone is speaking.

[europegirl4jfk]

23. Kerry almost makes me cry

Asking the others first to stop bickering and then talking so earnestly about the wars - Vietnam and Iraq. And he again told the sad story about this army captain they met and who should have gone home but was killed instead, talking about Webb and his son in Iraq etc...

[TayTay]

24. Kerry up

Mentions his common background with Sen. Hagel and Sen. Webb.

Mentions his protest in '71 and his disagreement with Webb over this. BTW, I was right (in nice language, but I was right.) Iraqi veterans have come in and there is a commonality.

Mentions Brian Freeman in Iraq. (The Civil Affairs officer who was killed 1/20.) Says Freeman went home on leave, saw his 15 month old daughter and 4 year old son. Then he went back to IRaq and was killed.

Question from 1971 is relevent today. How do you ask a man to be the last to die for a mistake?

Is it a mistake? How many here believe that? How many believe it is a problem of troop numbers? There are not enough troops (available) to pacify Iraq then what are we doing there?

Mentions Sen. Webb's son in Iraq and praises the troops as committed and capable. But the Senate is responsible for what we voted on. Now we have to get this right. We don't need a debate, we need to get it right for those troops. If you believe that this pres is not getting it right, then we have an obligation to get it right.

We have an obligation to get this right. We need to take an action. We need to send that message. It is a first step. Then come back to do more.

Almost every judgement we have been given for the last month and the last 3 years has been wrong. Do we ignore that and tell the troops to just go out there, no matter what. I am confident the PRes plan will not work unless the IRaqis make the decision to resolve the politics.

This is about the history of the region that goes back 1500 years. Goes over the history. This is the why of the civil war. It rests in that long ago history. (Damn, he is good.) We are trying to step into the middle of that.

This is wrong-headed. Rummy said we would not put our troops in the middle of a civil war, but we are. We want success, we have been trying for it for 3 years. Where is the diplomatic effort? Where is the special envoy to create the leverage to make this happen?

We have to get real here colleagues. I had a Res last year to set a date. (Similar to what the ISG wanted.) Changed the Res. to support a combined re-authorization on the war. (See Warner, John comments last Nov.)

Ahh, in your face. (Love this.) Okay, the timetable has problems and protests. Okay, then let's get it straight as to what exactly the Congress is on the record as supporting.

Kerry then spells out what his Res. would require. (Too fast to type.) Emotional plea to listen to those who have opposed the war, including the families.

Makes the sane point that the troop levels have varied. 2,000 is not going to make much of a difference.

ISG said in Rec. 21, if the IRaq govt does not make achievements in their progress on self-govt, then we (The US)should reduce troop level.

This is our moment and our time. We need to be serious about it.

*********************
Wow! That was amazing. Damn Senator, thank you. That was wonderful. Way to focus the argument on what it is really about.

****************

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=26010&mesg_id=26107

[karynnj]

25. This is phenomenal

Kerry is doing what the vast majority of people want - to have Congress lead on this war. "our moment and our time"

Coleman following sounds pale and vile following that - going back into politics - Can't even respond

[Mass]

27. Thanks. My connection dropped just as he was stating his resolution.

[wisteria]

30. And, I missed it because I am at work.

I will have to listen later.

[beachmom]

31. This was a moment. Damnit all -- media needs to cover this.

He takes FULL responsibility as a Senator for the war. The resolution he's offering will make BUSH negotiate the date with the Iraqi government.

Anybody else wowed by his history lesson on the split between Sunni/Shia?

I want the transcript, and I want video.

Excellent liveblogging Tay Tay. You captured it. Very moving. He was angry and anguished.

[TayTay]

34. I had a tear.

I cannot imagine what the cost of this is to Senators Hagel, Webb and Kerry. It must be horrible beyond words to have to see this all happening again. The emotional strain of that is apparent in their voices.

I thank them all for what they are doing. Their courage might yet save the nation from seeing even more young people die for a mistake.

[europegirl4jfk]

26. Kerry: This is our moment in our time and we have to be serious about it n/t

[karynnj]

28. "Our moment in time"

I love the way he used that - it elevates everything into the historical timeline and has a spiritual component as well.

[ginnyinWI]

29. lots of quotables in his statement

He's surpassed even Hagel's level of sincerity--he spoke plainly and simply-- we've got to do something and do something now--more can follow later, but this is the time to do something, because people are dying every day.


JK's said it all--who can argue with those statements?

[beachmom]

33. And he left Hillary's interview from yesterday in the dust.

They're going to have to double their efforts to destroy him. Because it's not working.

[blm]

35. Get both of their video statements on this up next to each other.

What Kerry has been saying for years and is saying today is the reason that Hillary's team does NOT want him on stage with her at the debates.

[europegirl4jfk]

32. Kerry IS the only one who really fully understands the whole situation

and how significant it is for the future of the US and the world. And I'm sorry to say that but if the majority of Americans can't see this, they just don't deserve this outstanding man as their leader.

[TayTay]

36. Sorry for being in and out of this

Work, sigh!

[karynnj]

38. The problem is these beautiful, sincere, thoughtful comments may not make it out of CSPAN

Our media is so useless they purposely are hiding this authentic genuine person.

[wisteria]

39. You can bet though that Clinton and Obama will have their merky opinions

broadcasted over and over again.
Maybe some heat can be generated on the blogs and the media might pick it up.

[MH1]

40. Can anyone put it up on YouTube?

That would be one way to get more visibility.

[beachmom]

41. No idea how, plus we need the original video to put it on YouTube.

And here's the thing -- this should not just be put up in blogs but sent to media, too. This was such a huge moment, it just CAN'T be lost.

I have to leave -- but somebody needs to watch Webb, and find out if he reacts, at all.

[europegirl4jfk]

42. Is there a way to put it on YouTube?

I only have C-Span online and really don't know, technically, how to record these streaming videos. I guess you need some special video software.

[Firespirit]

50. Bingo -- CNN/AP doesn't even include JK's NAME.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/24/us.iraq.ap/index.html

Let 'em have it. They need to be called to account for this. This is not gross negligence; this is deliberate, and it's gone way too far.

//Edited to say that this same story is on all the MSM outlets online. I've found it on ABC News, MSNBC, and CBS News. The AP is who should be contacted over this.

[karynnj]

55. Kind of strange they

mention Coleman - who proposed nothing - and leaves out Kerry who has a substaive amendment.

[TayTay]

37. Isaakson speaking.

Makes me weep that Max Cleland is not there. Sigh!

[Mass]

44. Izaakson replaced Zell Miller.

Is it an improvement?

[mloutre]

43. Wonky is as wonky does.

Not to worry, Taytay. No matter how wonky you get, we still love you anyway.

:0)

[TayTay]

45. Sen. Obama speaking, but without passion

He is repeating the points others have made, particularly Sen Hagel. We were mislead, it hasn't gone well, etc.

[whometense]

46. A lot more

I, I, I. Way too much. He is just not ready in any way to be president.

[TayTay]

47. Flip-flop

Sen. Obama says that 'nobody has called for a precipitous or immediate withdrawal." Gee, Senator, then why did you call the Kerry/Feingold Amendment from June 2006 a call for 'precipitous withdrawal?"

[whometense]

48. Why is Biden

kissing up to him? I do not get that guy. And I can't stand listening to him.

It blows my mind how civil the repugs can be when they are not in charge.

[ginnyinWI]

49. and that's what I see missing in Obama

not enough passion. Maybe that will change as he gains more seniority and authority. But right now he's still too green, IMO.

[karynnj]

52. Webb now

Wants to speak only on now - doesn't want them to peak of Vietnam feels it is counterproductive.

He cites a Harris poll where the question was phrased in a pretty biased way to say that 8 years after the Gulf of Tonkin resolution were for the war.

[TayTay]

51. Sen. Webb objects to the Vietnam parallels

Specifically talks about Sen. Kerry bringing him into the discussion. Says, in a nutshell, that Iraq and Vietnam are not the same. In Aug of '72 that the public still felt, by 73% to 11% that it was important that SE Asia not fall to the Communists. Not the same today at all. Don't bring Vietnam into it, because you will lose a lot of people who supported that war.

[karynnj]

54. He needs to look at other questions though

There were way more than 11% of the people agreeing with US out of Asia. This is extremely disgusting use of statistics.

He reacted with way too much sensitivity. Kerry has as much right to his own history - Kerry simply acknowledged that Webb disagreed with him - which is obvious. Kerry was not using Vietnam to argue the merits of what to do in Iraq.

[beachmom]

53. Webb was not pleased with what Sen. Kerry said.

He hasn't changed his mind one iota about 1971. Weird, since Vietnam wasn't half as vital an interest as Iraq is.

[whometense]

56. I heard that -

he dissed Kerry.

[TayTay]

57. I am not surprised.

This stuff goes very, very deep in both men. You don't get rid of that overnight or in the course of a few months of campaigning. Both men are remaining true to who and what they are.

[ginnyinWI]

58. well I think it's relevant.

There are enough similarities politically between now and then: both times the president was stubborn and conducting policy because of his own ego. The emotional impact Vietnam had on Hagel and Kerry can't be erased--not that they will react to Iraq emotionally--but that it adds to the discourse.

The is enough of a case against *'s policies in Iraq to stand by itself, but the American people remember Vietnam and I think it's useful to refer to it. If we can't remember the lessons of history, all of that suffering and sacrifice has no use at all to future generations.