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Need links to Dem sites on Aug 20, 21, 2004. Dkos, bartcop, and any other

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 10:21 AM
Original message
Need links to Dem sites on Aug 20, 21, 2004. Dkos, bartcop, and any other
Edited on Sat Jan-27-07 10:22 AM by blm
site, including DU.

This is about the swifts. The RW machine was always ready to push in any direction they were pointed to by the party and Bush campaign - they always knew exactly how to follow through with an attack to spread a meme or smear or lie.

When Kerry spoke at the Firefighters Convention and ATTACKED the swiftliars, accused WH of hiding behind them and challenged Bush to OPENLY debate both of their activities during that time, why didn't the Dem sites and what little LW media we have and all the Dem pundit class, JUMP ON THAT CHALLENGE and repeat it consistently to make it an active challenge, instead of letting it go by without any push whatsoever?

Did DNC spokespeople repeat Kerry's challenge when they had the airtime to do so?

I know I come to this well too often asking for research help, but I truly am a friggin' idiot when it comes to computers and my navigating skills are very elementary as many of may have noticed.

But, I think we need to start pointing out that blaming Kerry for everything is just a BIG LIE being pushed by those who are most culpable of dropping the ball when THEY had it.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. PFAW
This is PFAW's right wing watch. I had read a while back that some on the right believe Kerry responding was the actual mistake. Note that there is nothing on the Swiftboating here until after Kerry responds.

"When John Kerry went postal last week, the major media's preferred strategy for dealing with the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth - to ignore them - went down the toilet.."

http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=16615

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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Following that logic - Crafting the myth of "he didn't respond"
then causes everyone else to vow not to make that "mistake".

So the repuiblicans win again. (Hmmm....I wonder where all those anonymous dkos & DU posters beating that drum came from...)

Except, I am not sure that in today's media landscape that is a correct analysis.

It's a tough call and I think there might be as much luck as anything else involved in "getting it right" on this sort of thing.

OTOH, if one is buddy-buddy with Rupert Murdoch it will probably be an easier game to play. But if Murdoch's buddy is elected I'll bet we can kiss FCC competition-enforcing regulations goodbye.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Just adding info
I think there was a response by the campaign and that the facts were clear and made by numerous vets who were on those boats. So I don't think 'he didn't respond' is valid anyway. I don't know whether his personal response at the firefighter convention fueled the issues, I kind of doubt it. They would have gone ahead with their purple band-aid bullshit anyway, and it's the ridicule that hurts. I think most of their white male vote is based on some bizarre pack mentality that we're all familiar with from high school.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. I understand and didn't think you were claiming that
but I think the possibilities of how they might have played it - if the PTB of the VRWC actually think that - are quite interesting.

Aw, geez, I seem to be out of tinfoil...
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. The purple heart band aids were a missed opportunity.
That was the party's chance to turn things around. Imagine if Jimmy Carter, Wes Clark (an excellent surrogate), Al Gore, Bob Kerrey etc - all men with the credientials to do so - had led a campaign starting the first night of the convention - when they first appeared - that this diminsed an award given to reward the sacrifice of man at war. The first night, they could even say that they were sure that people like Bush and McCain (esp McCain) would not have approved of this and asked them to ask their colleagues to consider how wrong it was at a time when men were earning purple hearts.

This would have at least prevented people from thinking only Kerry partisans objected.

Consider how the RW does things. Kerry slightly misspeaks a sentence - that even as said is not that bad. Within 12 hours, it was everywhere with one interpretation attached to it - even though that was neither what he said or what he intended to say. I certainly don't want us to emmulate the RW - but we could have (with a far less developed network) have done the same thing here - only we would have truth and morality on our side.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. That was just a RW tact to avoid Kerry's challenge to openly debate it WITH Bush
instead of Bush hiding behind the swifts.

Interesting how the revisionist view set in. The left allowed Kerry's challenge to go unrepeated while the RW chose to pretend that Kerry ballistically responding to the swifts caused the media to pay MORE attention to the swifts. Then the left claims Kerry never countered them at all.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. This is the right wing watch from 2004
It is interesting that PFAW really doesn't have anything on the swift boating early in the month. Maybe they were trying to ignore it so it would go away, I don't know.

At the time, I never thought the plan was to 'take the high road'. I always thought the campaign was trying to counter with truth, while exposing the TACTIC. I thought the people who wanted to get into a brawl never understood that, consequently they thought the campaign wanted to put the whole thing on ignore which wasn't the strategy at all.

Like I said above, I'm just adding info. I really do wish we could get a thorough timeline. It's amazing to me how many vets were out there speaking truth, who weren't getting ANY press ANYWHERE. I read once that the campaign scheduled a press conference of retired military and the swift boats cancelled theirs. That was another early August event that caused the campaign to think they were being effective. But I haven't seen the article since.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I'm noticing that I can't find some of the articles I remembered from back then, too.
Edited on Sat Jan-27-07 11:26 AM by blm
Would be interesting to know whether the campaign collected them in any thorough way?

Thanks alot to all of you for helping me here. I think we need a thorough battle plan if we ever hope to turn things around.

BTW - Did DNC challenge RNC to have this debate Kerry called for?
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. I would take that comment with a grain of salt
1) Kerry did not go "postal" His response is very strong and factual. Consider the reaction on DU when we posted the speech a million times or linked to the video that MSNBC had. The Duers (and Kerry after the fact) are right - they should have put money into ads - though McAuliff's early convention date made that a hard choice. In fact the best ad would likely have been him saying the same things directly to a camera. His eyes speak the truth.

2) The key word is "major".
a) The cable news and talk radio were having a field day with it.
b) The ads were out there.
c) On cable, Kerry's surrogates were given equal time and equal weightwith the liars.
d) the networks and major print press were in deed ignoring it - and this hurt Kerry.

3) The major media once they did look into it, reported that most of the charges were provably false and that the liars had ties to Bush. There were aome equivical stories like a USA Today one where although they pointed out a lot of lies, led the story by saying "the truth would never be known" (or something equivilent, but by and large, they showed the liars to be liars.

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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. Try these google links
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. Jim Russell
Here's another response that I never saw at the time.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Jim+russell%22+kerry&btnG=Search
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. interesting read
MONDAY, AUGUST 30, 2004

PROFILES IN COWARDICE (PART 1): Forgive a bit of repetition. But let’s examine the way the press has pursued a basic issue of fact in the critical Swift Boat Vets story.
For several weeks, the corps has pretended to be deeply puzzled by a troubling factual question. Was there really enemy fire when Kerry pulled Jim Rassmann out of the drink? (This is the Kerry Bronze Star event.) Swift Boat Veterans have said there was not—that Kerry is lying to burnish his heroism. And the Washington press corps has scratched its head about this deeply troubling matter. The corps has pretended to be involved in a tireless search for the actual facts. On cable, millionaire hosts have struggled hard to get to the truth of the matter.

And then, at last! Eureka! Starting last Sunday, three witnesses to that day’s events came forward supporting Kerry’s assertion (see THE DAILY HOWLER, 8/27/04). (Kerry’s assertion is, of course, supported by all naval records.) Wayne Langhofer and Jim Russell were crewmen on PCF-43—the boat directly behind Kerry’s that day. And Robert Lambert was on PCF-51, where he served as radar man to Larry Thurlow, one of Kerry’s most aggressive accusers. And last week, all three vets came forward to say that there was hostile fire when Kerry saved Rassmann. Lambert had actually saved Thurlow’s life—and he said there was enemy fire.

Wow! You’d think these statements would get big play from a press corps in headlong pursuit of the truth. But if you thought that, you don’t understand America’s current political culture, and you don’t understand the Potemkin “press corps” that pretends to steward your public debate. How much play did these veterans get—three unaffiliated Swift Boat crewmen who all came forward supporting Kerry? As of today, few voters know what these three men have said. Increasingly, your national “press” is a screaming joke—and so, therefore, is your democracy.

Let’s start with MSNBC, whose millionaire pundits pretended to puzzle about this matter all last week. How often were the network’s viewers told what Langhofer, Russell and Lambert had said? Prepare to learn how your “press” really works. How much play did these three crewmen get? According to the Nexis record:

Langhofer’s name was never mentioned on MSNBC last week.
Russell’s name wasn’t mentioned, either.
Lambert’s statement, published Thursday morning, was mentioned once—on the that evening’s Countdown.
Astonishing, isn’t it? To state the obvious, MSNBC’s evening programs flogged the Swift Boat accusations all week. And this Bronze Star incident was discussed as much as any single event. Indeed, the network’s famous millionaire hosts wracked their brains and puzzled hard, trying to sort out the actual facts. But if you watched MSNBC all last week, you’ve still never heard of Langhofer or Russell, and you’ve heard Lambert’s statement mentioned just once! Of course, you have heard, again and again, the accusations made against Kerry. But when three crewmen stepped forward to challenge these claims, their statements went straight down the memory hole. MSNBC dropped the vets in the drink. They never were heard from again.
Of course, MSNBC is hardly alone in this amazing conduct. Predictably enough, CNN and Fox joined their sister net in consigning these statements to oblivion. The facts? According to Nexis, Langhofer’s name was never mentioned on CNN or Fox last week. And Russell’s name was mentioned just once—on Tuesday’s Inside Politics (CNN). The disappearing of Russell is especially striking, because the Kerry campaign arranged a Monday press event in which Russell produced a videotaped statement. Here’s the tape CNN played the one time it mentioned Russell:

RUSSELL (8/24/04): My recollection is that we were under fire during—off and on during the whole time that this incident took place. For anybody to say that we weren’t is—was on a different river, I think.
Amazing, isn’t it? This tape was available from Monday forward. But so what! Russell’s statement wasn’t played or reported on MSNBC or Fox—and CNN reported his statement just once. Finally, how about the most dramatic case? How about Lambert, the radar man who directly contradicted his own skipper, Thurlow? According to Nexis, Lambert’s statement wasn’t mentioned on any of these three cable nets. His statement went straight down the memory hole. His statement was dumped in the river.
Of course, one thing wasn’t thrown away—the nasty accusations being made by the bilious “Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.” Accusations by John O’Neill’s Vets continued to get major play on these networks. Endlessly, viewers were told that men like Thurlow and Steve Gardner were calling Kerry a liar. But when Lambert came forward to contradict his own skipper, his statement was thrown in the drink.

Let’s not beat around the bush. There’s a word for this coverage, and you know the word: Fraud. Simply put, a hoax is being played on American voters as cable networks feign engagement in a search for the truth of these matters. Profiles in Cowardice rule the “press” as they cower before John O’Neill’s surly men. But then, such scams have been happening since 1988—and your “press corps” is still too scared to confront them. Profiles in Cowardice rule the press, as we’ll help you see all this week.

TOMORROW: Part 2! Matthews knew to run and hide when Reagan called the Swift Boat Vets liars.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
9. A couple interesting finds
This post from kos:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/8/20/14735/6707

links to a great NYT story and graphic. I am trying to find a full text source for the story.

In my search, I also found this good read:
http://www.mikehersh.com/Bush_Campaign_is_Lying_about_Swift_Boat_Vets.shtml

These show among other things, the ties between the Bush campaign and the swift liars.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. They ADMIT that the swifts are thoroughly debunked at this point, but still
Edited on Sat Jan-27-07 12:35 PM by blm
don't pick up that Kerry, himself, used that exact same day to launch his challenge to them - he must have known the article was coming out that day because he had to have helped with the material that helped debunk it.

So, the real problem here is that though the left media HAD access to this article AND Kerry's attack on the swifts and challenge to Bush to debate the facts of their service at that time, they did little to press the points of the debunking AND repeat the challenge as a mass effort, the way the RW would have done.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. It might have been timing
That article was dealing with press coverage the last week of August - Kerry's defense was the week before ana likely covered then. Kerry's defense was essentially the official record. The SBVT were arguing that the official record was wrong - 35 years after the fact - and with no proof.

The only excuse for not booting them out the door immediately was that they claimed personal knowledge. Their credibility and reliability should have been examined before they got any air play. The appearance of these 3 men unrelated to Kerry who backed the official record should have blown the SBVT away. When they were linked to the Bush campaign, they should have been called what they were - a new even more preverted version of the Nixon dirt tricks.

From April on by demanding Kerry's record as though he, not Bush, had potential problems- when he undeniably a war hero - was to create doubt.

The Daily Howler article and the Russell letter need to be in your SBVT research file if they aren't there.
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cadmium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
15. Damn -- good point
Clark and Cleland made public statements--I don't have links unfortunately. Dean (on the O'Reilly Show) openly said the Orange alerts were manipulated to influence the election and the media narrative was that it was further proof that he is nuts. I'll look around to try to find something in a couple obscure sites. You are quite right - I think the media played this statement by Kerry as just more fuel to the swift boaters fire.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. LW media was really missing in action on this for the most part.
It didn't happen on CNN so they never bothered to notice, I guess.
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