If John Kerry were to re-enter the 2008 race, I'm on board so fast

[saltpoint]

it will make your head spin.

I honor his decision, but am homesick for his presidency anyway. That's a form of adult pouting, I'm first to admit. I'm trying not to be sullen and cranky.

What is not helping much are the bash-Kucinich and bash-Edwards threads on DU, Kos, and other blogs. On PROGRESSIVE blogs. I would expect them from the freeper blogs, but from my own blu team? It's kind of appalling.

I have run into too many people who don't take Dennis Kucinich seriously -- from ABC to anonymous liberals -- because of his physical personality, as if height or weight eclipse judgment. I respect the man, and have ever since he was Mayor of Cleveland. I understand his odds are long at the nomination, but I am strongly considering a vote for him in the absence of a John Kerry candidacy.

Or possibly for John Edwards. For whatever it's worth, I really don't care where John and Elizabeth Edwards live, or how big their house is. If voters don't like a candidate, they can vote for a different candidate. My guess is that Senator Clinton is going to be defeated in Iowa and Nevada by John Edwards and that she will finish no better than third in New Hampshire.

I'm a Kerry Democrat, long-standing. If he's not on my ballot, I'm going for either Kucinich or Edwards.

Over and out.

[MH1]

1. Me too.

Still not sure who else to support, though.

I can, um, see a vague glimmer of the point about Edwards (don't be mad!), but jiminy jeebus cricket, how many effin' threads have been posted about it? SHEESH. It's really down in the noise to even think about something like that, let alone spend so much effort discussing it, imo.

It's almost like Edwards has replaced Kerry as the guy to bash. That's really disappointing.

[saltpoint]

3. MH1, I think you run your finger along the hidden nerve of

the bash-Edwards threads.

When Kerry chose Edwards as his veep nominee, the anti-Edwards comments began to increase on many blogs.

When the 2004 election was "decided" -- the cheating by the GOP in Ohio notwithstanding -- Edwards was occasionally mentioned as a possible contender for 2008. The bashing really picks up here. A way to get at Kerry: bashing his choice for veep nom and inadvertently positioning Edwards as a national candidate.

I think the anti-Kerry bias on some blogs is manifest in the anti-Edwards comments.

I could be 100% wrong on this. But that's what it feels like.

[dailykoff]

2. It could happen.

Backing from the party he'll never get, but as far as the real numbers--voters, not pollsters--he's got 'em. I don't see how any of the others ever will.

[saltpoint]

4. He does have support. He had support in Iowa in 2004 after he showed

up in thos small towns at the town meetings. People liked him, too. They liked Kerry, Edwards, and Dean, literally in that order.

Gephardt, who seemed talior-made for an Iowa caucus, got smashed with only 11%. When only 1 in 10 Iowans support your candidacy, you don't have much of a candidacy. Gephardt withdrew before midnight the evening of the caucus.

I think the media is batshit nuts to report the Dean "scream" as the big media event of that night. I think the true event was that Kerry, Edwards and Dean buried Dick Gephardt. A year out from that 04 Iowa caucus, no one gave Kerry, Edwards or Dean much of a prayer. Gephardt had won Iowa before, he was from a neighboring state, he was friendly and tall and attractive and folksy.

And 3 guys from out of town whomped him.

[dailykoff]

5. Yes he does.

I think it's easy to get a false picture of popular support from the media and early polls and I really think Kerry's support is much stronger and deeper than maybe he himself realizes.

Likewise, I see Hillary as a paper tiger, kind of like Gephardt was last time out.

[saltpoint]

9. I think Senator Clinton is up against some very sturdy odds in

the Iowa caucus.

I think she places no better than 3rd there. Edwards is in the lead in polls in Iowa right now, and I don't see his supporters dumping him for Sen. Clinton.

Especially over this house controversy!

[wisteria]

6. I am a Kerrycrat. I find it interesting that there is so much negative out their.

No one likes anyone it seems. In a way, they seem lost because Kerry isn't around to attack now. Oh, and I agree, I admire this mans ideals and principles.
I frankly, don't care who our candidate in the general is. I will work in the primaries to see to it that Hillary crashes and burns though. Indirectly, not just by supporting another candidate.

[saltpoint]

8. Hi, wisteria. My queasiness with Sen. Clinton is not personal, but it's

more acute because of her inner circle & some of her advisors.

Paul Begala has been monstrously rude to Howard Dean and other Democrats. He ought to be spanked and sent to bed without supper.

And so forth.

Senator Clinton seems more likely to be a centrist and I'm to the left of that, so I'll vote for our ticket no matter what but prefer that she is not on it.

[sandnsea]

7. I'm considering where the Kerry money went

The fundraisers, they went to Obama. So that is in my mind right now. I haven't made any real decision either, except no Hillary.

Building big houses is nothing new and I don't particularly object simply because of the size. I just wish we would live in a way that is harmonious with the environment and global resources. I'm disappointed that they didn't choose to build something with some vision, putting their money where there mouth has been, so to speak. But they're certainly not any worse than anybody else.

[saltpoint]

10. Hi, sandnsea. The money is going to be a huge factor.

We haven't heard from Wes Clark yet. I'm not a Clark voter but I think he's smart and effective, plus he pisses off the Republicans because he generally knows a lot more about the military than they do.

I think raising money is what might keep some candidates out. But it's hard to say. There's a lot of cash out there, just waiting to be lined up with a favorite candidate.

[LittleClarkie]

11. Clark better be lining up donors RIGHT now

Or I think he'll have missed the boat again, and the donors are divvied up by Obama and Hillary

[saltpoint]

14. Yeah. Money could be tight if those two keep grabbing big donors.

James Taylor and Carole King supported John Kerry last time.

I wonder who they're on board with now.

[kerrygoddess]

31. From what I have seen

Kerry money (fundraisers) people have split up between Obama and Clinton. It's still early and it's not too early for any of the to switch allegiances which is possible. As for JT and CK - both longtime personal friends of JK I can't imagine who they will line up behind.

[sandnsea]

18. I like Clark

I thought his problem last time was he rambled at times and didn't have his domestic policy down. If he's learned how to campaign without looking like he's campaigning, then he'd be a great candidate. I personally wish he'd fully denounce all the 80's proxy wars and all of that, but I think he has a better vision for the future than anybody else running so far. We'll see what he does.

I was referring to the loyalty behind these fundraisers and what their support of Obama might mean philosophically, more than the money itself.

[saltpoint]

19. Ah. Sorry I missed that. I see what you mean about Clark.

I bet he's re-tooled the campaign presentation part and would be more effective this time around.

Not sure who's lined up with him as strategists.

Senator Clinton seems to have a good deal of her husband's pals gathered 'round her. And as I've posted before, I'm not a big fan of those folks, really, especially Paul Begala.

[cadmium]

25. I saw Clark at a town hall

meeting at Keene State in 2002 (? or 03) and there were specifics about his domestic policies that he didnt have down, but he knew what he didnt know. He knew the right questions to ask, was pretty clear about his priorities, and had a decent communitarian attitude. I was pretty confident that he would be good on domestic policy. His son (on the radio) said that his message got muddied by listening to political consultants rather than just saying what he wanted.

[sandnsea]

27. I agree with that

There's a basic goodness to Clark, he gets it, I don't doubt that. He could have chosen money over military service, so he knows what it is to intentionally make financial sacrifice too. I was pretty sure he knew what HE wanted to do, it just didn't always come out that way. I also think he might be a gabber underneath it all, likes to talk about ideas just to sort of flesh them out, for the fun of it. Can't do that on the campaign trail. I think that kind of snuck in there a few times too. But anyway, I hope he runs and runs hard against centrism. The 50% who don't vote will never vote if somebody doesn't start representing them.

[karynnj]

24. Unfortunately,

the Kerry people going so quickly - and almost as a block to Obama likely may make it harder for others to get enough money. The media has listed money as a reason for Kerry - whose money was second only to Hillary's. At this point, it looks like the people previously allied with Kerry are betting on Obama as the "anti-Hillary". With the people already behind Obama, this addition may help him come close to Hillary's numbers. It might leave everyone else in the dust.

If corruption and Iraq are the likely issues, he might be the right choice. From the NYT article on the ethics bill, Obama got a provision through that prevents lobbyists from giving Senators bundles of checks - that's impressive. He was also in that small holdout group that led to ths stronger billObama's voting record is closer to Kerry's. On Iraq, he can say he didn't vote for it (though it hearts my heart everytime people said that) and although his position is not Kerry's, I would imagine that he might be more influenced by Kerry than Hillary, who I don't trust. (Edwards' plan is hollow - at least Obama mentions diplomacy.

[BlueIris]

12. Yep.

And I confess that one reason I've all of a sudden become highly motivated to fix all of the remaining problems in my life ASAP is to make certain that I'm prepared to support in the most effective way possible should I get the opportunity. I mean, there are other reasons, but--since Wednesday, my to-do list developed a lot of Xs through its items, including a couple of things I've been putting off since like, ever. Hee.

[saltpoint]

13. I hear ya. And that makes perfect sense.

This year, 2007, is going to be a kind of watershed year.

I'm enjoying the company of a lot of DUers right now, although I wish John Kerry were still in the race. In any event he's still in the U.S. Senate, and that ain't bad.

There's talk of baseball pitcher Curt Schilling challenging Kerry for the Senate seat in 08.

Go ahead, Curt. Make our day.

[citizensoldierlou]

15. Without JK it is changing

I can feel the seriousness which we need right now, vaporizing into a personality contest.

So sad.

I'll be dreaming that he comes back until this darn race is over.

:-(

[Luftmensch067]

16. You're right, that's what it feels like!

Like the only grownup in the room has left and all the kids are running around yelling and acting out. I'm not saying that none of the other candidates are mature or serious, but with all the Hillary and Obama hype in the media, it does feel like with JK out of it, it's going to be about trivialities and soundbites and gameplaying and nothing else.

I'm hoping that will not be the case...

[saltpoint]

17. Yeah, and at the same time, I take a glimpse over the GOP field,

and I'm reminded that at our worst we're still better than their best.

John McCain, especially, is acting like a zombie.

What's up with that guy?

[karynnj]

26. That is so true - for me, it has completely deflated

the good feeling that it is our year to win. I need to look at Obama more - the question is can he get up to speed fast enough.

It makes me want to cry that I know I will not even wnat to watch the Democratic convention, campaign or debates if Hillary wins - and I have never said that since I was 10 in 1960 and watched parts of Kennedy's convention. (yes, I was a strange kid) In 1992, I saw some of the lack of values, now I know way too much - and she may win, but it will be without my vote -which will be a write in for Kerry. (It's my personal IWR - there is no good choice)

[saltpoint]

28. I love that you watched the Kennedy convention as a kid.

That is terrific.

And god knows we could sure use him back in the White House right now.

[Inuca]

30. I understand perfectly what you mean...

I hope Dodd will become relevant in te race, I like him, without enthusiasm, but I like him. Otherwise, I will have to root for Obama, and hope that the undefinable goodness that I saw in him proves to be true. And that he will have the smarts to surround himself with good people that know what they are doing. And by the way also hope that he will not go with Clinton as VP, I don't want him to become spoiled goods. Hopefully the party structure will chicken out at the idea of a woman/black ticket. Getting mad and upset again :cry: well.... this too shall pass...

[Mass]

20. Hopefully, you are wrong about who will defeat Hillary.

To be clear because I have participated in some of these threads, I do not care about where Edwards live; however, I care that his wife attacked the Kerrys for their luxuous lifestyle and tried to tell us that she was still shopping at Target and eating at Wendy's (may be it is true, but how is it significant?). Many Democrats are wealthy. Many care about poverty. Few are trying to tell us they are just regular people. Added to what he said about Iran, it is a little too much for me.

I could go for Kucinich in a minute. In all those running, he is the one I am the most compatible, even more than Kerry probably on issues.

I cannot support Hillary in a primary. I could also support Gore in a moment, if he ran. I am looking at Dodd and Richardson, but do not know enough about them to know whether I like them or not.

Just to summarize, there are three aspects I liked about Kerry: his progressivism , his understanding that the US are not alone in the world, and his experience. At this point, I have trouble finding that in most of those running. I am still looking and asking questions about where people stand is part of that process.

However, I see what you mean and will try to stay out of negative threads, though sometimes it is very hard.

[saltpoint]

22. I think it's almost impossible on DU. Every day is a gauntlet.

Of the entire field for 08, I'm lukewarm on Sen. Clinton and yet would vote for her if she is our nominee.

If she becomes our nominee, it won't be because I didn't try to nominate someone else.

[ginnyinWI]

21. as a fellow Kerry Democrat,

I'm going to vote for whomever John Kerry endorses. :)

If he doesn't endorse anybody, I'll have to take my best guess in about a year or so. But I think he will; most major political people do, don't they? Like Gore endorsed Dean last time.

[saltpoint]

23. Hi, ginny. Yeah. I expect there may be an endorsement from John

Kerry, but I feel as if he may withhold an endorsement, too -- hard to say -- it feels like a 50-50 thing.

There could be a wild development where Al Gore runs, becomes the frontrunner, asks for Kerry's endorsement, gets it, and then later asks Kerry to be his running mate. While I'd prefer it the other way around, that would place the 2 people Bush cheated on the same ticket for 08.

Hard to refuse a ticket with those two qualified people on it.

[blm]

29. I could deal with that. And it wasn't just Bush doing the cheating.

.

[kerrygoddess]

33. I don't expect JK to jump to endorse anyone

It's still a long time out before the primaries and he'll sit back and watch who mirrors his ideals and visions for America, I believe and who gets on board his Set A Deadline campaign. However, his endorsement wiill be HUGE. We've discussed this at the Dem Daily. He's in the roll of the rainmaker with his ability to raise money through his PAC, his 3 million strong email list and the activists who believe in him.

Finally, when it comes down to his choice, I don't believe that he will let the fact that any of the potential nominees dissed him over the "joke" stand in the way. It's part and parcel of politics - and when it comes to partisan's competing against each other for the #1 office in America, folks will play dirty. JK knows that the dissing was not personally motivated but politically motivated. I believe he'll make his endorsement choice on the merits of the candidates platform and their electability.

[ginnyinWI]

36. I'd love that too

It would certainly be poetic justice.

[kerrygoddess]

32. I'm with you Old Crusoe

It's all about JK for me. I can't even begin to think of supporting anyone this soon. A couple of folks on the Dem Daily have suggested a Draft JK campaign. I get why he made the choice, I still wish in the bottom of my heart that he had not.

[saltpoint]

34. Hi, kerrygoddess. Well, I'll try to go with the flow, but like you,

I wish we had our guy in there for next January's Iowa caucus.

I may go into a break period here and just think things over. I'm sick of the Kerry bashing from way way back on these boards and I'm lately sick of the Edwards and Kucinich bashing. Why the admins permit this while pretending to "support Democratic candidates" has been a source of unlimited puzzlement for me. A lot of more reputable liberal blogs don't include DU in their links, possibly because on DU Democratic candidates are slammed and the admins don't do anything about it.

[kerrygoddess]

35. I hear you - I wish we did too

Who knows maybe he will change his mind. If not I know in my heart we will continue to have a great leader in him as well as great inspiration.

The bashing is tough all the way around. I tend to come here less because of it. I expect the disagreements over who is the better candidate but as always I'm from the agree to disagree sector so at this point the all out battles are too toxic for my taste. With out a pony in the race right now, I'd rather study up on who's saying and doing what and go from there while continuing to write about JK the newsmaker/Senator on the Dem Daily.