TPM debunks Webb's Vietnam poll (apparently he repeated it on FTN)

[beachmom]

Here's the first one:

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2007/jan/28/get_your_history_straight_senator

And here, he finds the poll:

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2007/jan/28/searching_for_the_fugitive_poll

Reader mrs panstreppon found it! According to the New York Times on September 12, 1972, a Harris poll found that 74% of Americans supported President Nixon's contention that "it is important the South Vietnam not fall into the control of the Communists." 11% opposed it.

"Important." OK. This is the sort of thing that gives polling a bad name. I might well declare it important that the Vietnamese be permitted to vote for their leaders without implying that the U. S. Army, in pursuit of that goal, fight a war that kills two to three million of them and 58,000 Americans besides.

In the meantime, cherry-picking polls is a bad idea, no better than cherry-picking anything else besides cherries.




This is what I thought. Oh well. Jim Webb is a good senator (so far), and I'm thrilled he defeated George Allen, but he does seem to have a blind spot regarding Vietnam. Nevertheless, I'm just going to ignore him when he pulls this stuff -- they printed his medal citations in my paper -- holy crap -- it read like a Hollywood film it was so extraordinary. So in light of that and all that he gave for his country, if he wants to hold onto something that just isn't there, so that he can feel justified to be against the Iraq War, then it's just best to let it be.

[sandnsea]

1. What's more

I think most people would think it even more important that Iraq not fall into the hands of terrorists, but that doesn't mean we support a failed war strategy or that we think the risk is worth the damage the war is causing. Same thing was true of Vietnam and communism. Not preferable, but not winnable militarily or worth the fight.

I agree, Webb has a blind spot there. I think Webb sees it as a military strategy failure instead of a foreign policy failure. We never should have been there, just like we never should have been in Iraq.

[karynnj]

2. Exactly

What bothers me about it is that he had to have searched to find a poll that was not way below 50% in 1972. It's an extremely biased question - how do you tell the pollster that you don't think it important? This is cherry picking - even if the Webb people don't like it and it is intellectually dishonest. He also ignores that even people like McNamara said it was lost by 1968.

His use of it against Kerry was pathetic - even if he didn't know Kerry wasn't running. Kerry was making a statement about himself and mentioning that he paid a price for telling what he saw as the truth and implying for the need to look for truth even if it came at a cost. (A price so high that on McGlauglin goup today they spoke of how having Hagel and Webb, both highly decorated war veterans on the SFRC. (This was shameful)

[beachmom]

3. From TPM, it appears that Webb brought up the poll again

on Face the Nation (most missed what happened in the SFRC on that issue, which was fine with me). I thought that was weird. Kerry gave his statement, and I guess another hour went by until Webb -- perhaps that made sense for him, to bring up that poll (surely he didn't have it memorized but asked staff to retrieve it?), but why again on FTN? He seems to be wanting to bring pro-Vietnam people on board to be anti-Iraq War. That seems to be his plan, so maybe using his weird polls will convince them, but it's just odd.

[karynnj]

4. But it's illogical

The two wars aren't the same.

[sandnsea]

5. I think it's about being a protester

I think he just doesn't like it and is trying to separate the two any way he can. I tried to discuss Jane Fonda a couple days ago, here at DU, and was blasted for even bringing up the idea that she wasn't a total monstrous traitor. Those feelings run deep and those vets are just never going to change. Maybe that's why JK decided not to run, maybe he couldn't put the vets themselves through it again. I had hoped there would be a healing in 2004 for our generation, vets and protesters, coming together to stop this horrible war. But I guess it's never going to happen and will be just another unresolved wound of injustice, like so many in this country.

[sandnsea]

6. FTN on now

I'm not happy with what he's saying at all. He's not against the war, he's against the strategy?? Then he calls for a "Dayton-like accord" that HE'S been calling for??? Maybe baby boomers are just a bunch of egomaniacs and none of us know how to play well together.

[fedupinBushcountry]

7. At the protest

There were actually signs made up saying "Webb for President". I just shook my head, I know you would of too.