Biden lays into Edwards, Obama, and Clinton - Yuck!

[Mass]

I am happy Kerry is out of this race. This is really nasty. I do not want to imagine what Biden would have said about him.

Also, if Biden wanted a candidate who knows what he was talking about, may be the safer bet would have been to stand firmly behind Kerry, and support him, rather than pushing his own personnal ambitions.

http://observer.com/20070205/20070205_Jason_Horowitz_politics_newsstory1.asp

Biden Unbound: Lays Into
Clinton, Obama, Edwards

By Jason Horowitz
/ Click Here!
...
“Are they going to turn to Hillary Clinton?” Biden asked, lowering his voice to a hush to explain why Mrs. Clinton won’t win the election.

“Everyone in the world knows her,” he said. “Her husband has used every single legitimate tool in his behalf to lock people in, shut people down. Legitimate. And she can’t break out of 30 percent for a choice for Democrats? Where do you want to be? Do you want to be in a place where 100 percent of the Democrats know you? They’ve looked at you for the last three years. And four out of 10 is the max you can get?”

Mr. Biden is equally skeptical—albeit in a slightly more backhanded way—about Mr. Obama. “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,” he said. “I mean, that’s a storybook, man.”
...

“I don’t think John Edwards knows what the heck he is talking about,” Mr. Biden said, when asked about Mr. Edwards’ advocacy of the immediate withdrawal of about 40,000 American troops from Iraq.

“John Edwards wants you and all the Democrats to think, ‘I want us out of there,’ but when you come back and you say, ‘O.K., John’”—here, the word “John” became an accusatory, mocking refrain—“‘what about the chaos that will ensue? Do we have any interest, John, left in the region?’ Well, John will have to answer yes or no. If he says yes, what are they? What are those interests, John? How do you protect those interests, John, if you are completely withdrawn? Are you withdrawn from the region, John? Are you withdrawn from Iraq, John? In what period? So all this stuff is like so much Fluffernutter out there. So for me, what I think you have to do is have a strategic notion. And they may have it—they are just smart enough not to enunciate it.”

Now, I share some of these views, but is it really what I want to hear from somebody running for president. Does it give me confidence in the person?

The answer is clear: NO

BTW, Biden is everyday on TV, does not yet have the media yapping at him, and the best he can do is 4 %. Please, this smells desperation.

[beachmom]

1. Yuck is right. But it sounds like him. Look, I'm glad Kerry got

that really good subcommittee assignment, and I know we have Biden (right?) to thank for that, but if the phrase "stay in the Senate" is meant for one senator above all others it's Biden. In the senate with his seniority, he gets respect -- out there? Not so much.

[Inuca]

2. He DOES talk too much

On the other hand, he is often right, like in this case. I can find nothing wrong with what he said, except that he said it (does this make any sense?).

[Mass]

3. Totally, but the problem is that he said it.

Also, I did not know what to make with the part about Obama. It seems borderline racist, or is it just me?

[beachmom]

4. Yep. It made me wince. Again, Biden is older and from a different

age, so to him, what he said was really nice. Which tells us how out of touch he is.

[Inuca]

5. I do not think it is racist

at least not on purpose, though itcould be interpreted that way. I think Biden is a really weird guy, very smart and knowledgeable, but also pompous and somewhat arrogant, with a completely ununderstandable to me incapacity to control what gets out of his mouth. ALmost like a disease, really, so inconsistent with his obvious intelligence. If you look at the words about Obama with a PC filter, they are a pretty accurate description, and contains much more good than bad, but nevertheless it's something that he should NOT have said, as he should not have said the rest, about Clinton and Edwards (though I must confess I enjoyed reading his comments about sunshine Johnny, they went directly to what is wrong with him). Not only it is not good for democrats to bite their own lije this, but it hurts Biden himself the most in many ways I do nto have the time to get into now, so again, I just cannot understand how the man's mind works.

[Noisy Democrat]

10. I'm pretty sure it's going to be perceived as racist

However he meant it, to say “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy" is *not* going to play well in the AA community. I believe that many already don't like it when white people remark on how "articulate" Colin Powell is, because it makes it sound like they're surprised that a black person can speak "like us." This line of Biden's is like a whole mini-lesson on "how to insult the entire black community while ostensibly complimenting one black individual." At least, I would think that would be how it would come across.

If he had said what he probably *meant* more clearly -- that Obama is one of the first African-American politicians who comes across with a personal and rhetorical style that white people can easily relate to and be inspired by --, and not put loaded words like "articulate, bright and clean" into it, perhaps it would've been OK. I'll be curious to hear how this line of Biden's actually is perceived by the African-American community -- if they give enough of a damn to listen to Biden anyway, which is a big if. But I don't expect it's going to be good.

[MH1]

18. I agree with you.

My jaw dropped when I read that.

For once I agree (almost) with kos: "Really, if we live in a just world, this will be the end of Joe Biden's political career."

I say "almost" only because I don't think Joe meant it as awful as it sounded, and I don't think people should be drawn and quartered for a verbal gaffe, unless their other actions betray that it was really no gaffe.

I agree with the "in a just world" aspect though because many others have been figuratively drawn and quartered for much, much less. So, if we're gonna treat people even remotely equally, Biden should be DONE.

[karynnj]

12. Ageist as much as sexist

I suspect he is used to senority mattering. He even seemed condescending to Kerry on foreign policy - where Kerry has a far more coherent, integrated world view.

[karynnj]

11. The Hillary stuff is very disengenuous, the Obama stuff condesending, the Edwards stuff fair but

stated in a needlessly nasty way.

It's true Hillary and Bill are using every tool they have - ethical and non-ethical - to eliminate competition before the primaries even start - before people even get to evaluate Hilary, the candidate. They do have most of the party platforms and a huge amount of the media. The fact that she has between the mid 30s and 40% is extremely high in a primary with a large field. (Kerry had an overwhelming victory in Iowa with 38%.) So, his conclusion is wrong - she can win just keeping what she has - unless they eliminate too many people. (They can succeed too well - if they keep Gore and Clark out and force out all the smaller players for lack of money. Then, if either Edwards or Obama implodes (or support erodes), they could have done to themselves what rarely works - created a single ABX (where X=Hillary).

The Obama comments are pathetic.

He is making good points on Edwards - and he may help Obama if this analysis gets out. It really is what we have all said. Obama having a binding resolution - with content and detail - is good timing on this.

[sandnsea]

6. Oh brother

Is this like the crazy relative that you're always rescuing aach other from? Pssst psst psst, Uncle Joe's had cousin ned cornered for half an hour, yikes!

He's got a lot of nerve yammering about anybody's personality or convictions.

And I don't see a thing in the world wrong with bringing troops home as a means to effect a change in Iraq. It's removing the lightening rod.

I think the whole thing is idiotic and wish Biden would just shut his yap.

[blm]

7. Biden wouldn't attack Bush in 2004 this hard when he was supposed to be supporting Kerry.

Do Dems only fight for themselves and NO ONE ELSE in the Dem party that needs back up? Looks to me like Kerry is ALWAYS consistently there backing up those under attack, yet you can't count on one hand others in the DC Dem party who do the same.

[wisteria]

9. You are right. Makes me wonder what exactly our party stands for

if they won't even stand up and back each other.

[ginnyinWI]

8. you don't gain support by tearing everyone else down!

This is no way to win a primary. Remember that the last one was pretty friendly--except that Gephardt and Dean went after each other--and both lost. So there!

[karynnj]

15. unless your an anonymous web site or operative of someone

[rox63]

13. Senator Hairplugs has zero chance of being elected President

Especially with horrible manners like that. And he has all the charisma of a wet dishrag. How long until his history of plagiarizing speeches is back in the news?

[karynnj]

14. This may help Dodd

Assuming Gore doesn't enter, there still may come a need for an experienced anti-Hillary. This could blow out Biden. (Add it to the WP article on his committee hearing where he talks a lot.)

[rox63]

16. Atrios & Josh Marshall are all over this

Both have multiple posts about it today.

http://atrios.blogspot.com/

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/

Edit to add: Will Bunch too: http://www.attytood.com/2007/01/just_go_away.html

[Mass]

17. Thanks. I stopped even considering Biden when he bragged that

Delaware had been a slave state and that this was giving him a chance of winning the nomination. :wtf: Add to that the comment about the Indians and seven-eleven.

When I read the comment today, I did not even go to the worse interpretation, but even the good on (a dropped coma) sounded borderline racist and totally patronizing.

And Democrats got Kerry out of the race because he was gaffed-proned? Please!

When will Hillary ask him to apologize.:shrug:

[karynnj]

26. When will the Democratic party ask Hillary to apologize

for making a comment that can more easily be interpreted as the last Democratic President being "evil and bad" than Kerry's could be challanging the troops intelligence.


So, Biden and Hillary need to leave. At his rate, we'll eliminate a candidate a week.

[beachmom]

20. Kos, too:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/1/31/11112/2465

Really, if we live in a just world, this will be the end of Joe Biden's political career.

[beachmom]

27. Okay, this is just getting ugly now. It seems PR is not working for Biden

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/1/31/133420/651

So either 1) he's a patronizing asshole, or 2) he's a historical revisionist asshole. Either way, he's an asshole. And either way, the racial element is inescapable.

Update: I got an email from Biden's director of online communication claiming I'm giving a "one-sided impression" of Biden. Aside from the fact that this poor guy (Eric Carbone) thinks blogs are supposed to be "fair and balanced", it's true, I've completely forgotten to write about the other side of the story -- how Biden is a bought and paid for subsidiary of MBNA. When Bank of America acquired MBNA, Biden was likely part of the package deal.




Ouch.

[karynnj]

30. That is rough

It's hard to sympathize as he and others looked on gleefully as Kerry responded sincerely and honestly on a very innocent omission of a word - when there was even proof in the form of pre-event text. It is serious though that both Hillary and he have been caught on something.

It simply reminds me of the comment Tay Tay quoted form the Johnkerry blog - that someone said that Peggy Kerry was hoping against her good decent brother running because it's a zoo out there.

[rox63]

31. Josh now has a link to the audio

So we can all judge for ourselves what Biden really meant.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/012209.php

[Mass]

19. Edwards is on it too, though with more substance

No more Mr Nice, I guess.http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0107/2546.html

Edwards '08: Talking Tough

By: Roger Simon

In 2004, John Edwards rarely had an unkind word to say about his rivals for the presidency. But it isn't 2004 any more.

Should Hillary Clinton apologize for backing the Iraq war? "That is a moral decision she has to make," Edwards told me.

..

That nonbinding resolution against the Iraq troop surge favored by Barack Obama? "Useless," said Edwards. "Exactly like a child standing in the corner and stomping his feet."


...

Hillary, Obama and Edwards are all against the planned troop surge in Iraq. Hillary and Obama want a cap on troops in Iraq but are not now in favor of cutting off funds for the surge. (Obama is not ruling it out if it is the only option remaining.) They both favor passing a resolution indicating opposition to the surge.

Edwards, who wants an immediate cutoff of funds for the surge, thinks the resolution is a sham.

"What is the point in saying we are just against it?" Edwards said. "It is useless. It is exactly like a child standing in the corner and stomping his feet."

(Late Tuesday, Obama introduced legislation to begin a phased redeployment of U.S. troops from Iraq.)

...

Finally, Edwards is trying to establish a specific campaign posture: authenticity. Many Democrats believe that after eight years of a president who they believe was packaged and sold to the American people by clever handlers, Americans will now want an authentic candidate.

...

First, Edwards should be better informed. Obama has been supporting Dodd's proposal capping the troops to a Jan 06 level. He has been one of the 5 Dems to vote for it, with Dodd, Kerry, Feingold, and Boxer. He has also made a complete proposal of withdrawal (more than Edwards has made), and, whatever this article says, Obama has been offering it since before yesterday.

So, I am all for discussing on issues, but first, people need facts.

I also find interesting the idea that authenticity is a campaign posture (????).

The campaign is really starting early and will be ugly.

[karynnj]

29. Edwards of all people need to be careful

having authenticity as the issue.

He has no coherent foreign policy and sounds the same on Iran as he did on Iraq. But - he's the anti war guy yelling at every one else. Now, spinning his second vote on the $87 billion as anti-war, though he, like Kerry, voted for it on the other bill. This was such a huge issue in 2004 that this is dumb. (not to mention - the Republicans tried to claim it did because that was a sure loser.)

He voted for the 2001 Bankruptcy bill - Kerry, Kennedy, Dodd, Harkin etc voted against it (82 people voted for it) This is Mr Poverty.

He is posing as an activist evn though he has no history on this.

[MBS]

32. your last sentence sums up everything that bugs me about him n/t

[karynnj]

33. I didn't think that much about it -until an Edwards

person commented on Kerry's call for input in the New Year's greeting. Saying that Kerry was copying Edwards. This causes 2 equal and opposite reactions. Defending Kerry as an activist and debunking Edwards as one. He is likely to get called on it at some point - there are way too many discrepancies.

[beachmom]

21. Um, guys -- he also trashed Gore and Kerry:

Mr. Biden, who ran an ill-fated campaign for President in 1988, is a man who believes his time has finally come, announcing this week that he was filing papers to make his 2008 Presidential bid official. Although he admits to a tendency to “bloviate,” he thinks that an aggressive advocate with rough edges might be just what the party needs right now. “Democrats nominated the perfect blow-dried candidates in 2000 and 2004,” he said, “and they couldn’t connect.”




Based on how it's stated in the article, this is a new quote (if you recall, he trashed Kerry in the New Yorker 2 years ago as being weak). What is he THINKING?

[Mass]

22. Ouch, I missed that part!

My husband was talking to me about this comment, and I had no clue what he was talking about.

Thanks for pointing that to me.

I hope he did not hope that Kerry would endorse him!

[beachmom]

23. Ha, ha, ha -- he is now attempting to clarify his remarks about Obama

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/jan/31/biden_clarifies_obama_comments

"What Senator Biden meant is exactly what he said to Diane Sawyer," said Biden campaign spokesman Larry Rasky. "He's fresh and he's new and he's got great ideas. I don't see how his comments could be interpreted otherwise, but this is politics. Obviously there are people who are people trying to make something of it today, but not anybody who knows Joe."




Um, yeah -- we know you, Joe, as someone who likes to trash his colleagues frequently, and often unfairly.

As far as the interpretation, perhaps you can go talk to your "blow dried" friend John Kerry, and he'll throw you the book on misinterpretations!

[karynnj]

24. Perfectly "blow -dried"

Biden is just jealous - no one could say his hair pugs are perfectly "blow dried".

[MBS]

25. perfect : )

[rox63]

28. Not really enough there to blow dry

Although he might want to invest in a head buffer. Or maybe a rug-shampooer. :rofl: