Old-timers: has there ever been candidate separation anxiety like this

[LittleClarkie]

before?

I mean, even on the main board, there are those posters who, right after the election, couldn't even stand to see a picture of Kerry without tearing up. Then there are those who say, like Kleeb did, that they miss seeing him. When he re-emerged politically, some said it made them feel better to see him fighting.

Are we normally this attached? Did anything like this happen with Gore, or Carter, or Dukakis, or Mondale, or any other losing candidate you can think of?

It seems some of use desperately need that shadow prez. Or am I reading it wrong?

[ginnyinWI]

1. This is new for me!

I had not ever been much engaged in politics before--except in a general way--against the Vietnam War, for example, against fat-cat-phoneys in Washington. Very skeptical and cynical about all of them.

I turned 40, had my mid-life crisis, went back and finished my degree, became solid in my belief in the Democratic Party's ideals. Voted for Clinton twice, and Gore, but I was voting for what they stood for, not for them personally.

Then, finally, after hating Bush for almost three years (Nov. 2000-Sept. 2003) I took a look at the new candidates, thinking "ah, finally we can get rid of the little punk". And all ten of the Dem candidates were a breath of fresh air in their debates--just to hear someone talking about what I believed was important, for a change!

It started getting exciting. I originally liked Wes Clark, because he was getting more press, just then, when he announced that he was in the race. But I watched those debates closely, and read up on what each candidate stood for. I turned toward Kerry, Edwards, and Dean. I especially liked Kerry's stand against the death penalty. Then Dean started acting like,in my opinion,Bush, with his kind of tempermental attitude. And Kerry's answers were always so damn smart! The more I found out about him, the more I liked and trusted him. So--long story made short, I placed my trust in the guy back in January of '04, and he hasn't disappointed me since.

So why did I get so emotionally attached to JK, the candidate? I think it's a combination of really feeling a huge need for someone to rescue this country out of its sad state, and then seeing someone who seemed tailor-made for the job. And third, when you listen to him speak, you know that what he is saying he believes and feels to his core. Yes, I can say he is truly inspiring--he makes me believe that he can do what he says.

We bonded with this man, we identify with him on an emotional level, and we still need him to save us from the scary people out there who wish to harm us. All of that trust is still there, for me, anyway. There are Dems who voted for him and didn't get that involved, I'm sure, but so many of us did, because he has that wonderful ability to communicate that he sincerely cares, so we respond by giving him our trust. At some emotional level we are getting this message: "Don't worry, I'll take care of you." :loveya:

Sorry this got so long! But it's a question I love to elaborate on, and I think you Kerrycrats understand! :)

[whometense]

2. What an interesting question.

Ginny and I are the same age, and her story is a lot like mine.

I was somewhat active in the antiwar movement of the late 60's and early 70's (which is when I formed my first opinion of Kerry), but not that active since. During the Vietnam war era the government was clearly secretive and untruthful, just like now. Among young people there was a deep distrust of the government, which was, after all, sending our brothers and boyfriends off to die in what was by then clearly an unwinnable war.

I think a lot of people our age were attached to McGovern and Gene McCarthy, but I don't think it was the same as now.

I think the big difference today is that as horrible as Nixon was, he did some decent things. It still felt like there were grownups in charge of the country, even if their priorities were fucked up.

TayTay and I were talking earlier about why people vote the way they do. I'm an intuitive voter, and I have to say that in 2000 I loathed * at first sight. I was lukewarm about Gore, though I thought he's be a very good president. Of course, * has done nothing sice then to change my mind, and in fact now I think my first judgment of him was too kind. In my opinion, he has done NOTHING right. He allowed 9/11 to happen. I won't go into the litany - you know it all too well. But now, even as an adult, I feel like evil cyborgs are running the country. They have no heart. They have no courage. They have a vision for the future so brutal makes my blood run cold.

Put that together with Kerry, who I have always hoped to have a chance to see as President, and it's like the perfect storm. Hideously evil * vs. Intelligent, caring, and moral Kerry. I think that is why people are taking it so hard. Their hopes were so high, and the fall from there so shattering.

[ginnyinWI]

3. Bush is indeed worse than Nixon ever was,

and that is saying something! You are right, whometense, at least we felt like someone with a brain was in charge of things.
I too, loathed * on sight. I will never understand the appeal he has to some people! I must be reacting instinctively, too, because I knew little about him at the time. But I've certainly encountered his "type" before.

Our hopes for JK were high, because he was everything that * was not! Caring, not callous. Smart, not dumb. Educated, not ignorant. Careful, not reckless. Truthful, not lying. Both coming out of privilege, but one having a sense of "noblesse oblige", and the other having only a sense of entitlement.

So it's hard to just think, "oh well--" when the choice was so dramatic. It is not easy to just let it go. Neither side would have been able to accept the opposition's candidate, because they were so different. We will not be reconciled! We will not move on! We feel too strongly about it now to do that. Yeah, these are polarized times, and the war makes it more intense. People are dying because of what our leaders do. Just like back in the Vietnam war era, when people were out in the streets marching.

Whome, do you think that people weren't as attached to McGovern because Nixon wasn't as scary as we think Bush is now? That people weren't as desperate? Is that what drives it, or do you think it is because John Kerry as a person has more charisma than McGovern? Because people were feeling very very desperate about the VN war! Argh it's so hard to be objective, being inside of this the way we are now. We are so totally biased--lol.

[whometense]

7. It is hard to say,

mainly because I was so young when I voted for McGovern, and so inexperienced in the ways of politics and government. I remember hating Nixon, but my hatred was all about Vietnam. I never thought he would trash the planet, and he certainly wasn't in it for the money the way *'s cronies are. He was a decent diplomat as well.

Also because my attachment to Kerry goes back so far it's hard for me to be objective. I think if one of the other dems had been nominated I would have worked just as hard, but not felt as passionately supportive of them. I don't know enough about campaigns in general to know if the intensity of this year was anti-*, pro-Kerry or a mix of both. For me personally, the answer is clear.

[karynnj]

4. Same here

Like both Wometense and Ginny, I never ever cared as much for the candidate himself. I did have a "don't blame me I voted for McGovern" bumper sticker for about 4 years after he lost. I think it may be the sense that in addition to his obvious intelligence, and positions, there was the sense as I read more about him that he was incredibly heroic in fighting against several corrupt administrations. He really is large than life compared to any candidate of my life time. (Seriously, if you had a novel and had him do everything that Kerry did it would be reviewed as not believable. I remember one thread on one of the blogs after the story of him saving the life of a chocking Republican came out joking that he seemed to save people (or hamsters) in each decade) His slogan of the real deal was apt. He just seems to be an incredibly good guy.

[TheDonkey]

5. I still am wrestling with sadness and happiness when I see Kerry

So happy he's out there fighting but incredibly sad he isn't President... incredibly stunned and sad. He would have made such a great President it really tears me up.

[TayTay]

6. Depends on the soul the mood is attached to.

I find it absolutely fascinating the way some people describe this. (Yeah, that is a bit of an assh*ley statement to make. I'll get better, I promise.) There was an awful lot of emotional investment in getting * out of office. Everyone here knows how awful he is and I think we put a great deal of ourselves into the effort to get rid of him. I was (and am) absolutely, without a doubt, convinced that * is a horrible and destructive Pres. I wanted (and want) him gone from power. So there is that. I almost physically ached from wanting that bastard gone. Damn it, I even dreamed about it.

Like Whome, I have known and voted for John Kerry for a long time. As I have written before, I also kind of wasn't paying attention that closely to what he was doing for a long time. (So sue me.) I had it in my mind that he was doing a good job, that he was a very good Senator and that I could just trust the guy. I trusted him and kind of got lazy. It happens. But the Presidential campaign is so damn long and so damn intensively covered that I found myself taking another long look. (Which was extremely strange. I kept reading stuff and thinking in my head, "Why didn't I know that already? Wait, I did, I just forgot.")

I have had my political heart broken many times. After the first time, there is a sort of instinctual pulling back, of not wanting to commit fully because you can get hurt that way. (Hey, I'm human, I have my failings.) So I could talk about Kerry running for Pres in an intellectual way. (Emotionally involved? Nope, not me, I've been around the block a few times, I know it's not a sure thing. I'm not some dewey-eyed kid. Un-uh. Not me.) Then I started watching the speeches on C-Span and I volunteered. (Perfectly okay, that was a rational act. I can handle this.)

Well, the deeper we got into the campaign, the more I started to lose the emotional distancing. (Oh shit, and it was going so well.)Ask me anything. I read every damn book put out last year. I know every bastardly thing * or his pet, Cheney, have done. I have rational, explanable reasons for everything. I volunteered because I should advance the cause in my own way. Oh, and was that a twinge of pride I espy within at a hometown guy doing well? (Me? Miss Icecube? No, no. I know what I am doing. I can handle it.)

Well, you know the rest. I fell head-over-heels into political hope and love. (No, no, no, no! This can't be happening to me. Arrrrrrgggghhhh!) I did fight it. I tried to keep away from C-Span for hours at a time. But to no avail. A day with out checking in on the Kerry/Edwards campaign would have put me in the looney bin. And the more I saw Mr. Kerry, the more I hoped that he would be the one. The guy who would kick the evil *ies out on their ass. And you know, I should have paid more attention to him over the years. This guy is really, really good. And he is articulate. And I like his wife. And I like his family. And he is really, really smart. (Hopelessly in political love now. Sigh! I would have to turn in my membership card in 'Massholes 'R Us' if this kept up. We are blase and hard-to-impress, as a rule. Well that was out the window. Sigh!) I stopped dreaming about getting rid of * and had the occasional dream about Kerry. (Ahm, that was odd. When that happened I would try and take a mental vacation, go to the movies or something. But it is true. I was so intensely focused on this goal, it entered my dreams.)

Then came the almost was. Broke my frickin' heart. That was awful. And I had trouble detaching. So I came here to DU and then to this forum. And you guys helped me heal. And I found people who send out floatie hearts to pols. (How un-Massholey!) And it got better. I'm not all the way better (you never fall completely out of political love, that's not the way it works.) But it is getting better. Cuz I got a place to go where others understand. Thank gawd!

[whometense]

8. One of the things I noticed about

myself this year was my inability to go more than two days without seeing JK on c-span. It was - and still is - like a serious addiction. I've never experienced anything like that before.

[ginnyinWI]

15. The campaign

put JK into focus for those of you who've known about him for years, but also for people like me who didn't know anything about him until Sept. '03. He became the answer to our Bush woes, and more. He became a reason to believe in a future where America will be on track again.
Bush has been a nightmare, and Kerry gave us a dream. And we still want and need that dream. So we hang on, hoping he'll have another chance to carry out that dream and change it to reality. No, I don't believe he would have or could have worked miracles, but do believe he would have done his very best, and that's all anyone can ask.

But as for the original question--why do we stay so emotionally attached? I think I know the answer now. It's because of what John Kerry did. He opened his heart up to all of us--he really did--and we responded. As simple as that. We love the guy because we know he loves us. We saw that during the campaign, and we still see it now.

Me too, TayTay--I'm glad I found my way to DU and this group, or I swear I would be wondering about my own mental health--I'd be wondering why I'm not "over it" yet. And you guys have helped me understand why.

[elshiva]

9. I'm a youngster in this discussion.

This did not happen to Gore in 2000 (the first time I could vote for a president). I don't think there was that many haters among the democrats. That is still a big tragedy of my lifetime, not seeing a Gore presidency and getting Chimpy. Sigh...
Kerry because he conceded early will be seen by the lefty freepers as a coward and DINO, which is absolutely insane.

[WildEyedLiberal]

10. And what pisses me off

Is that he actually conceded late. Most candidates concede the night of the election - only Gore because of the obvious fraud in Florida held off. Unfortunately for Kerry, the fraud in Ohio (and elsewhere) was not so flagrant as to be acceptable by the MSM, who would've crucified him and called him a sore loser crybaby.

[GRLMGC]

11. He floded!!!!!!1111

He betrayed us!!111 :cry: :mad: and whatever other stupid smiley faces you can come up w/

[WildEyedLiberal]

12. KERRY ABANDONED US!!!!!!!!!!11111111

He CAVED!!!!!!!111 :mad::mad::mad::mad::grr::grr::grr::grr:

:puke: :argh: :puke: :mad: :grr: :spank: :spank:

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[elshiva]

13. About the concession, Mrs. Kerry:

Rumors on DU pointed to the fact that he might have been forced to concede because either he or a member of his family was threatened. I think it could have been possible, though it's a little farfetched. Then again someone tied it to the whole Kennedy tragedies...so maybe right because the Bushes have always wanted to beat the Kennedies and is Kerry is practically a Kennedy. (Remember how Dubya called him "Senator Kennedy" in the second debate? Could mean something...)

[WildEyedLiberal]

14. It wouldn't surprise me

There is no depth of depravity to which those evil pieces of shit wouldn't sink.

[elshiva]

16. Yeh. But at least they didn't kill him like they

did with JFK and RFK. (The fact that he shares the initials of the murdered Catholic president is NOT lucky at all.)

[WildEyedLiberal]

18. Don't think I don't feel nervous for his safety

Knowing what those fuckers are capable of... it makes me nervous for him sometimes. I just wanna grab him and hold him and protect him from all those evil bastards.

[ginnyinWI]

19. there are other suspicious deaths too

how about JFK, Jr.? And there are others. But I don't really think that happened in this election.

[ginnyinWI]

17. yeah but

the counter to that argument is that all he would have to have done is make the threat public, and it would no longer work, would it?

Oh, and I do think that "Mr. Kennedy" thing was deliberate! Very Rovian. Could have been a gaff, knowing who said it, but still.

[WildEyedLiberal]

20. Easier said than done

And he'd have to have irrefutable proof that something was said. If he went public with just a verbal threat, he'd be run out of town for DARING to be such a heartless political whore and lie about a nice man like George Bush that way.

[ginnyinWI]

22. true.

The press usually sided against him. If someone else came out with the news it might have worked. Oh well, we are speculating. But it is a crime to threaten someone's life!

[elshiva]

21. I am not too sure about Kerry being threatened.

Don't know all the facts yet. However, I strongly believe in the RW conspiracy to stop at nothing.

[LittleClarkie]

23. I know, but that's the meme

it sounds absurd to me for folks to keep saying how fast it was, that it was as if he couldn't wait. By Gore standards it was quick, but by the standards of every other concession I've ever seen in my life, it was quite slow.

It makes people sound so unreasonable to me, when they talk about how fast he conceeded. "But the votes weren't counted! He promised to wait until they were counted!" Yeah, and then when they were counted, he's still lost. Whatever had happened, fraud-wise, wasn't going to be waving it's little hand saying "I'm here" by November 3rd.

I understand it's the desperation of folks looking at 4 more years, but dang, it's like blaming the victim of a rape because she didn't fight hard enough.

I honestly don't know what he could have done. Oh he could have called for Ukraine-style protests, but can you say "Civil War?"

But then I think that's what some of our lefty freepers wanted. Civil War. Well, Kerry cared too much about the country to do that.

[GRLMGC]

24. Dude, the lefty freepers have called for civil war

but I doubt they'd leave their parent's basements and their flamin hot cheetos to actually fight one.

[LittleClarkie]

25. Remember how glorious it was just before the election when

they were threatening to take up arms if Kerry won? They were sooooo scared they were losing. It was wonderful.

I know a guy who was positively whining about the first debate and how unfair the questions were. Freepers on the defensive. Heh.

[WildEyedLiberal]

26. Hahahahahhah

Yeah, revolutions are easier to fight on X-Box, when you can restart after you get fragged, unlike in real life.

[TheDonkey]

28. Hmm, I actually think that there was more animosity towards Gore

but of course that is considering real world people and not DU. I'm sure if DU were around in 2000 the heavens would have caved in when Gore conceded.

But I think that the media and most Democrats don't seem to blame Kerry as much as they ridiculed Gore, I'm thinking because of the debates. Also that Gore was a VP in a prosperous time and was so close in the race to Idiot McAsshole.

Still if Gore wouldn't hae disappeared and ran again he would have won.

[kster]

27. Attached because of what he

was up against, and there are a hell of alot of us that knew he could be cheated.Nobody like's to see someone get cheated. The positive thing that came out of this is that we all knew how he was going to be cheated. And as of nov 2nd there is a mountain of evidence that points to fraud. Kerry has to depend on sites like this one to get the story out. Kerry could have never done it on his own. Keep up the good work,Hopefully we can change history.