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bartcop spreading another lie about JK. Claims Kerry voted for Gonzales.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:50 AM
Original message
bartcop spreading another lie about JK. Claims Kerry voted for Gonzales.
Edited on Thu Mar-15-07 11:51 AM by blm
http://www.bartcop.com/

As I recall, Kerry was a leading voice AGAINST Gonzales' confirmation.

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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. I sent an e-mail and gave him a link to the roll call on the
Gonzales nomination. Perhaps somebody else can e-mail his leadership on the matter. I didn't delve much into that.

So what's the deal with Bartcop? Another lefty blog that hates Kerry or just a sloppy fact checker?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. he hates Kerry because he's a Clinton loyalist who believes they are the only ones
Edited on Thu Mar-15-07 12:15 PM by blm
who know how to fight.

What he fails to remember is that Clinton DIDN'T defend himself on attacks of draft-dodging in 1992 - Kerry defended Clinton on that.

And Clinton wouldn't have been ABLE to win in the first place if SENATOR Kerry hadn't spent HIS time in office exposing Bush1's corruption in IranContra and BCCI.

Kerry had former PRESIDENT Bill Clinton supporting Bush2 on his most of his major military decisions and neither Clinton backed Kerry up at all on Tora Bora or Rumsfeld's firing.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. This should
be posted in GD-P. Bartcop is an idiot, and should be exposed as a liar.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. mods already deleted the bartcop thread in GD.
Don't know the why, though.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Oh, maybe does he/she post on DU? I guess then it would be
considered a calling out thread. Oh well, at least he/she got the message.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Kerry was respected across the board
When he first won the nomination, they lined up on Fox News and didn't quite know how to go about destroying him. That's because all through the 90's he was considered a rational voice from the Dem Party. They even said they would never attack his war service, he was a hero and that was that. When he spoke for Clinton back in '92, you're right, it went a long way in shutting down the criticisms. And having lived in Montana in '92, which went for Clinton, I know for a fact the Perot voters were not going to go for Clinton. He only got 37.63% of the vote in that state. Kerry, in fact, got 38.6%. Kerry did better than Clinton and he didn't even have the benefit of someone like Perot beating up the opposition.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. I don't know that he was the leading voice, but he was one of them
Edited on Thu Mar-15-07 12:11 PM by karynnj
What is with Bartcop? It is incredibly simple to look up the votes - and Kerry voted against ALL the bad guys.

Here's his statement saying he will vote against him.

"I will vote against the nomination of Alberto Gonzales for Attorney General. As Counsel to the President he committed grave errors in formulating the administration's detention and interrogation policies which have put American troops in greater danger. American presidents for decades have believed in the Geneva Conventions because they protect American troops captured by the enemy. It's a mistake to choose as our nation's chief law enforcement officer someone who called these protections 'quaint' and opened a Pandora's Box that has tarred America's image in the world and placed our troops at even greater risk.
"Some of America's most distinguished retired military officers share my concerns. General John Shalikashvili, the former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; General Joseph Hoar, former Commander-in-Chief of U.S. Central Command; and Lt. General Claudia J. Kennedy, the former deputy Chief of Staff for Army Intelligence, wrote that 'it is clear that these operations have fostered greater animosity toward the United States, undermined our intelligence gathering efforts, and added to the risks facing our troops serving around the world.'

"Judge Gonzales' confirmation hearings were a golden opportunity to reassure the country that as Attorney General he would uphold and enforce laws which for decades have protected our troops and advanced America's interests in foreign policy. Instead he gave evasive answers which raise doubts about his commitment to the rule of law and reflect an unwillingness to exercise independent legal judgment on critical issues.

"It is for these reasons that I will oppose the nomination of Judge Gonzales to serve in that post."

http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/cfm/record.cfm?id=231562&
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. You should put it up on the forum there.
The regular posters there are pretty decent people.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. It seems to only be a quote - not a topic on the forum
So I gave up.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. Sen. Kerry voted against this. Floor Statement 2/3/05
Edited on Thu Mar-15-07 12:39 PM by TayTay
I sent an e-mail with this in it as well as the link to the Vote Page at the US Senate web site.

Mr. KERRY. Mr. President, today we consider the nomination of Judge Alberto Gonzales--President Bush's selection for Attorney General of the United States. I will oppose this nomination for several reasons. Judge Gonzales's deep involvement in formulating the administration's detention and interrogation policies and his refusal to candidly answer questions about these matters concern me.

As White House Counsel, Judge Gonzales played a pivotal role in shaping the administration's policies on the detention and interrogation of enemy prisoners. In 2002 Judge Gonzales advised the President that the Geneva Conventions did not apply to terror suspects, and described some of the treaty's provisions as ``quaint.'' This dismissive approach to our international commitments laid the basis for President Bush's decision to treat terror suspects as ``unlawful enemy combatants.'' In casting aside the Conventions, Judge Gonzales opened a Pandora's Box that brought the country and American troops less security.

Separately, the Department of Justice circulated a memo it had written-- at Judge Gonzales's request--that provided an extremely narrow definition of torture. The memo was widely condemned and contrary to the plain language of the U.S. anti-torture statute and all legal precedents. When asked about this memo at his confirmation hearing, Gonzales said he did not recall, ``whether or not I was in agreement with all of the analysis.''

Do these revelations necessarily mean that Judge Gonzales is directly responsible for the prisoner abuse scandal that has damaged our national security and tarnished our Nation? Of course not. But his actions--at the very least--helped to create the environment in which the Abu Ghraib scandal took place. The result is less certain intelligence and more danger for American forces around the world.

I was struck during the hearings on Judge Gonzales's nomination when Senator Leahy asked if leaders of foreign governments could torture U.S. citizens if they thought it necessary to protect their own national security. Judge Gonzales replied: Senator, I don't know what laws other world leaders would be bound by. And I think it would--I'm not in a position to answer that question.

I wrote to Judge Gonzales asking him to clarify his answer. He responded, in fact that: international law forbids the use of torture. All parties to the Convention Against Torture have committed not to engage in torture and to ensure that all acts of torture are offenses under their criminal law. But it does not address the heart of the issue. Judge Gonzales interpreted U.S. and international law to suggest that U.S. citizens could conduct torture when the President of the United States gave them authority to do so. In doing so, he undermined the legitimacy of the very international norms he asserts would protect U.S. citizens. His assertions collapse under the weight of their own flawed logic.

This is not simply my judgment alone, but the judgment of some of America's most distinguished, retired military officers--including General John Shalikashvili, the former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Joseph Hoar, former Commander-in-Chief of U.S. Central Command, and Lt. General Claudia J. Kennedy, the former deputy Chief of Staff for Army Intelligence. In an open letter to the Senate Judiciary Committee, they wrote:

During his tenure as White House Counsel, Mr. Gonzales appears to have played a significant role in shaping U.S. detention and interrogation operations in Afghanistan, Iraq, Guantanamo Bay, and elsewhere. Today it is clear that these operations have fostered greater animosity toward the United States, undermined our intelligence gathering efforts, and added to the risks facing our troops serving around the world.

Judge Gonzales's interpretation of our commitments under U.S. and international law has been widely condemned in the United States and abroad, including by members of the State and Defense Departments. He is not an appropriate selection for the Attorney General of the United States.

Judge Gonzales's confirmation process presented him with an opportunity to reassure the country that as Attorney General he would uphold and enforce the laws that prohibit torture. Instead he offered evasive and overly legalistic answers. Judge Gonzales's refusal to answer questions about administration policy--either in oral testimony or in written responses to questions--raises doubts about his commitment to the rule of law.

His lack of candor before the Judiciary Committee leaves many outstanding questions about his role in determining administration policy. One can only conclude that either he lacks a fundamental understanding of U.S. and international law, which I believe to be untrue, or he is dismissive of its applicability as it relates to the President.

We have seen this approach taken by this administration before. They do not consult, they do not confer, they do not exercise good judgment and that is the end of the story. The rest of us are left to deal with the consequences. The policies Judge Gonzales favored have tarred the image of America in the world--not made us safer. They have placed our troops at even greater risk--not protected them. The choices he made as White House Counsel showed unacceptable judgment.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I love this paragraph
His lack of candor before the Judiciary Committee leaves many outstanding questions about his role in determining administration policy. One can only conclude that either he lacks a fundamental understanding of U.S. and international law, which I believe to be untrue, or he is dismissive of its applicability as it relates to the President.
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Blaukraut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
9. the same bartcop who came up with the pink tutu picture
This guy is a creep and he has lied more than once about other Democrats.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
13. This was deleted and replaced by a post that says that we gave a
pass at Kerry in 2004, so why not to Hillary now.

If somebody wants to reply.


(My answer is that nobody gave a pass to Kerry in 03, but, even with that, at the end, it came out as the best one. Hillary can do the same thing (or try at least).

God, this guy is really sold to HRC.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Kerry got no pass ever , not even when he won the nomination
but Kerry at least continued to answer the questions no matter how many times asked.

but Hillary and her supporters reply with arrogance with shit like "did you vote for Kerry in 2004". as if they are above having to explain their position . instead pointing fingers.

if they don't want to talk about it or explain then they shoudln't run for public office.

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