Wow, we have a lot of work to do

[TayTay]

I just came back from the MA town Dem Caucus. Eye opener. (I got elected a delegate to the State Dem Issues Convention in May in Lowell. That should be fun. All the Dems should be there trolling for supporters and stuff. Party down with MA Dems.)

Gawd, I learned a lot in a short period of time. The Towns are very worried about the Deaniac strain of the party. (Again, not Dr. Dean. He is not responsbile for all his followers, though I would much appreciate it if he tried to reign some of the more outlandish people in.) My town is scared that the Party in MA has gone too far left and that we are going to lose the small towns. (The feeling was that they would go Repub in a second if the State Dems went too left too fast.) Fascinating. I will keep you up to date.

Hmmm, my first convention. That was easy. 3 men and 3 women showed up and damn, we are delegates. Woody Allen was right, 90% of life is showing up. Wish me well, I have a lot of work to do. (Thank goodness retail, local politics turns me on so much. This is going to be fascinating.)

[karynnj]

1. Congratulations!

It really sounds exciting - although obviously a lot of work!

[whometense]

2. Congratulations!

And good luck. I've been watching the DNC meeting on c-span as I putter around the house.

One major thought: I like Howard Dean a LOT more than I like his supporters. From what I saw, they are a self-congratulatory, smug lot. That's not news to people who go over to GD here, but to actually see it acted out in front of my eyes...

Dean's speech was pretty good. But he does one thing that drives me nuts. I know it's sort of his main shtick, but can we lose the line, "It's not my chairmanship, it's your chairmanship"? Please?

[karynnj]

5. In fairness, Kerry has used some similar populous wording

Like referring to "our Campaign" in the letter he sent in November. When Kerry writes or says similar things (to Dean's), he manages to sound like he is a LEADER of the people involved in a common effort.

It does seem different when Dean does it and I can't think of why.

[whometense]

7. I think the difference is

between Kerry saying it's "our" campaign, which seems acceptable to me. But if he said it was "our" candidacy, that's a step too far for me.

Dean can say it's our DNC - I think that sounds fine. But there's only one DNC chair - and it's him, not us. Maybe that sounds like semantics, but it just sounds phony to me.

[karynnj]

8. You're right

Or if Kerry would have said "Your Presidency" which would have sounded idiotic.

[whometense]

12. Exactly.

I understand what he (Dean) means by it. It's just one step too far. Sounds silly.

[elshiva]

38. Yeah, it's silly, but who cares?

It's not the worst thing he could have said. If you gonna go after him for saying something like, you'll always will be after him. He says the weirdest things some time, but he is still a wonderful person.

[ginnyinWI]

15. ha--I just wrote almost the same answer! great minds. n/t

[whometense]

17. great minds,

indeed!! :-)

[ginnyinWI]

14. I agree

Howard Dean should have said, "it's not my DNC, it's our DNC", because the chair is his alone. That would have come across much better. Kerry saying it is "our campaign" runs along those same lines, because we were all working in it.

[JI7]

3. was Lowell the area Kerry lost when he ran for Congress ?

in the early 70's i think .

[TayTay]

4. Yup. Friggin Lowell Sun!

They were compalinging about the Loweel Sun this morning and how they are still out to get MA Dems (including Kerry.) I hate that friggin paper, but they have excellent local coverage. Their national coverage sucks, way, way too conservative. And they got themselves all puffied up with pride when they endorsed Shithead last fall instead of the local guy. Bastards. But, ya gotta deal with what's actually in front of you. You go to war with the newspapers you have, not the newspapers you wish you had. (LOL!)

I am pumped about this. And I bet I will get to see Kerry. All those guys turn out for the conventions, even the off-year issues conventions. And the food and the parties and the booze is good too! (I love partying with Dems.)

[karynnj]

6. In, 2008

Do you think they'll have a dilemma in whom to endorse if Corsi actually runs against Kerry? Did they endorse Kerry in 2002?

[TayTay]

11. Nothing to do with each other

Corsi would run as an insane person in the Rethug Party of MA. I have no idea if John Kerry will rerun for his Senate seat, run for Pres or try and do both at the same time. Only time will tell on that.

[angrydemocrat]

24. LMAO! The Lowell Sun Has Always Sucked!!

And you are right they made total asses out of themselves when they endorsed shit for brains they were the laughing stock of all newspapers LOL! I will never forget some of the things people wrote in and said to those fools, and OMG the cartoons about the were hillarious! One I seen showed a picture of a jackass rared back in a chair and a dude on his knee's LOL! (You know the rest) And it had wrote below it "Just in case you forgot here is a reminder of what we Democrats think of you a W" LOL! I seen a lot of crap about them all over the internet. Some of it down right insulting and gross. I don't think those bastards ever took that kind of beating from the American people. I still LMAO when I think about it.

[angrydemocrat]

26. I have a copy of the jackass rared back

But I don't have a scanner besides that one is too insulting. LOL. Some of the websites that post satire get down right crazy. And of course you have those who are well hard to describe like the Rude Pundit.

[sandnsea]

9. "The Towns"

Are you a rural Dem? I'm a rural Dem too. You have a separate caucus for rural Dems?

I explained to someone else that politics in Oregon is like DU LIVE! I'm serious. :crazy: Alot of good people, but geezo it gives me a headache. Maybe I should try to find a rural caucus here.

[TayTay]

13. It's kinda complicated

Each town committee meets on the appointed day and holds a delegate caucus. This is not an election year in MA, so it was sparsely attended. (I showed up, now I'm a delegate. The people who are on the committee who didn't show up are only alternates. Haha!)

I am not really rural, I am more like an exurbs person. I live in a town that has 11,000 people. That is small in proportion to the cities that ring Boston, Fall River, New Bedford, Worcester and Springfield, but not really rural. But the towns are mad at the cities and the town committees are always afraid that the cities are going to cut their delegate numbers and give them away to the more populous areas. I have already been lobbied to meet with town people and vote as a block so the state people can't ignore us again. (See what I mean, MA is like a lot of other places. There is always a power struggle going on. Tell me this dosen't sound familiar.)

I am virtually certain that Teddy K will be there and I am fairly certain that Kerry will be there. (People want some of that money. Please Senator, give us some money so we can spend it on grassroots in MA. We promise to name anything that comes of this seed money after ya, whadda ya say?)

[sandnsea]

20. I see

How far are you from a city? My town is 7,000. Do you mean you're a town that is pretty much surrounded by other towns? As opposed to a rural town of 11,000 that is surrounded by farmland or whatever your rural areas are? I'm surrounded by forest and a little farmland, and miles of dunes that always end up in at the center of debate here. Development, ATVS, or save the dunes. I never agree completely with either side.

We have a real rural/city problem here too. I don't know what Boston is like, I actually have the sense that there's a sort of traditional streak that underlies it all. As opposed to Portland which is more "new agey" so to speak. Anyway, there's cultural and issue differences and you never really know which is swaying the voter more. And the city Dems treat us like rural rubes, very annoying.

[TayTay]

28. There is a lot in common

Massachusetts is very conservative in a lot of ways and very traditional. (We do go back aways, and the history of the place cannot be denied.) I am in the northeast section of the State, about 40 miles inland from the ocean. My town borders all those conservative towns in Southern NH. I am surrounded by many others towns, one of which is a high pop industrial decay town and then on the other side are the horsey towns. (These are the picturesque places that tourists love.) The town where Sen. Kerry's parents lived the last 30 years of their lives is only a hop skip and a jump away. (Groton, MA.)

There are still working farms in my town, but they are small (<50 acres.) One of the biggest problems facing MA (and the other NE states) is development. On the one hand, land is disappearing very, very fast. Part of this is because everybody seems to want to build these huge mansions that are energy inefficient and far from the business centers. So open land is disappearing quickly. Very soon, unless we get it under control, what you recognize from books as New England, will not be here. It will have fallen to the developers bulldozer. That is true. More land has disappeared to development since 1960 than in all the 300+ years before that in MA. (Serious problem. We need space and room to grow, but do we have to kill what we came for in order to get it?)

The NEw England states are very old and very small compared to the Western States. We live cheek to jowl with each other and are a contentious and jealous bunch. (Sports unites us, but there are strong differences among the states and strong grudges that actually go back generations.) Are we conservative? Well, the town that I was born into was the original site for the Salem Village witchraft trials. After that whole mess blew over some 300+ years ago, the town wanted to forget it's place in infamy. In 1757, the town changed it's name ('The King Unwilling', as it says on the town seal, as the English King refused permission for the name change and the town did it anyway.) Again, in 1757, some folks in the town decided it might be nice to put up a monument to the victims of the witchcraft hysteria. Nothing doing. The majority wanted the whole thing to blow over, they didn't want the tourists coming in and getting in the way and so forth.

Fast forward 230 years. The Tercentenary of the hysteria is upon us. Again, as they have every few years for over 230 years, some townsfolk in my hometown decide it might be nice to raise a monument to the victims. It finally passed and the monument went up. Think about that for a minute, because the same objections came up that came up in 1757. I would call that a region with a bit of a conservative streak. (Think globally, act within the millenium, if you can. Sigh!) Now, tell me again how liberal we are.

[Lavender Brown]

10. Awesome!

Good luck! :toast:

[ginnyinWI]

16. good for you, TayTay.

As for me, I'm going to be joining my local Dems (Democratic Party of Wisconsin) at their meeting on the 17th--not sure what it's all about yet, but I want to get involved. In Wisconsin we have open primaries, so I haven't been registered as anything up to this point. I do think local politics should be interesting.

[whometense]

18. That's really great!

I was registered as an independent till last year. Just because, even though I never voted rethug. Now I'm a proud dem too.

Our town dems are pretty - well - pretty Dean-supporterish. My state rep and I got into a tussle (a fairly friendly one) over his support for Dean in the primaries. So it may be a while before I work up the nerve to go to a meeting. I am a true KERRYcrat.

[ginnyinWI]

19. well, it's a big tent

We can love Kerry and like Dean too--or whoever. I feel pretty magnanimous today! The DNC meeting has got me feeling pretty optimistic, in spite of myself. I would love to hear what sort of reactions it is getting in the repub camp. Maybe I should venture over to Fox....nah. Not worth that.

If the rabid Deaniacs on DU would just stop being so defensive about Kerry, and stop insisting on dissing him at every opportunity, then we "could all get along" here, too. Dean doesn't begrudge Kerry; wish his followers would get a clue.

[whometense]

21. I definitely do not want to rain on

your optimism at all. I wish I'd come away from it feeling the same. I think Dean will be fine. It's the holier-than-thou attitude that drives me crazy.

It's the same in my town committee. I wonder why it is that when they talk about the grassroots I come away feeling like they're not talking about me? I think Dean encourages this attitude, and it frankly annoys me. And I'm no party regular. I think power to the people is just fine. But I don't go along with the concurrent idea, which seems to be that none of the democrats in power understands how things should work. I find it condescending. It was one of the things that really turned me off about Dean before the primaries, and I admit it still turns me off. He's got good democratic ideals and ideas. But I think others do too.

Maybe it's just me and I'm being sour today. Pay no attention - it will pass.

[JohnKleeb]

22. He'll be fine, I just hope he doesnt pander to people.

What turned you off about Dean exactly? I am confused. I am happy he's chair but I for one if things don't go right don't want them blaming other dems but refusing to blame Dean or if Dean does something as chair that is disagreeable, I don't want double standards, if they criticize Kerry to death, they should be fair and be critical of Dean too because after all they think thats ok, I am not holding my breath, many of the rabid Kerry hating Dean supporters have double standards to rival Bush.

[sandnsea]

23. Deanies & Clarkies are the grassroots

There's a thread that says that. They're the anti-establishment Dems. So disrespectful and I sense that holier-than-thou crap too. It is the same locally as well.

I'm hoping for a reality check for Dean and that the people who have dedicated their whole lives to local politics will take him down a peg. Then maybe we can get together and get something done.

[JohnKleeb]

25. that is disrespectful

Many of us here at the Kerry group are students who work hard for a living and could be doing other things other than politcs, and believe me I have my other interests. The Deanie-Clarkie alliances never last for some reason. We have to work together and if they are gonna be so full of themselves and think only they are the true grassroots and or democrats, they deserve to get my temper on them. So fucking arrogant, if they expect to be respected and even liked by other dems, they have to realize that they are NOT only the base and it is NOT all about them, its about fucking America and our country, and how we as a whole can better it, not so they can inflate their ego and martyrdom complexes. End of rant, siggggggh.

[ginnyinWI]

27. you are so right

we have got to be united to beat the other side out of power. It is pure ego to want to stay in your own little cloister and demand that everyone do things your way. The sooner they learn this, the sooner they will begin to contribute to the party in some meaningful way.

[JohnKleeb]

29. Unity is a great thing

Those jerks don't think that because they think loyality and stuff is a bad thing. Who are they to claim to be the only goddamned grassroots in the party? I worked my ass off for Kerry this fall, I even left my state of Virginia to canvass, thats pretty grassroots, they're just talk!

[GRLMGC]

30. Loyalty is a Republican trait, remember? nt

[JohnKleeb]

31. Right

:) Hi btw. Yeah like how dare we stay loyal to our party, they have such double standards.

[whometense]

32. That's it.

You nailed it.

[JohnKleeb]

33. Its just so condescending to us who arent professional political activists

I am just a student, I wake up at 6:30 every morning and go to school, act like a wiseass, then do some political stuff, I also love my gaming and reading. Ive never made above 5.50$ but I am not in love with Dean or Clark so according to those fools, I am not the grassroots.

[whometense]

34. It's condescending and arrogant

to all the "unenlightened."

I didn't mean to stir people up, and I'm sorry if I've done that. I was just exploring why the part of the meeting I watched left me feeling uneasy.

I'm happy to support Dean, I really am. I watched his speech hoping to be inspired.

[JohnKleeb]

35. I am not a big Dean fan but he does have the right stuff for the DNC chair

Its ok, its just those goddamn condescending jerks think only they are the true grassroots. I want to work together to build a strong democratic party that isnt the third way crap nor is it the republican party only left wing, what I mean about the latter is, I dont want a democratic party that is intolerant to differing points of view and punishes people for that.

[angrydemocrat]

36. I didn't see the whole thing.

I missed a lot of it.

[JohnKleeb]

37. I am just venting if no one cares

I hate being told by a bunch of people who are no doubt older than I am that I just because of the man who I admire and like a lot that I for some reason because of this am not as much grassroots as they are, its condescending for the Deanies and Clarkies to think they are the sole grassroots and anyone who disagrees with them is a DLC bushilte. Its downright insulting to me because I dont have to be involved in politics, I could be playing video games well I still do game :) and I looooooooove it. Yes, I am silly even as I vent guys.

[Firespirit]

39. Not just condescending but dangerous.

The people we're talking about (not all Dean supporters, obviously) seem to have this idea that if the campaign had been run according to their ideas, it would have been a landslide. That they alone have the winning formula and were thwarted.

They will continue to think that unless they are proven wrong. There are two ways to accomplish that, either by winning elections some other way than theirs, or by losing in a big way, indisputably, by following their playbook.

What's dangerous is that with Dean as Chair, they *may* start acting, well, like Bush -- like they have a mandate within the Party. A "left" version of Republicans run amok with power. TayTay's post sort of confirms this idea, that there's concern over that group. And yes, they'll be proven wrong on their mentality being a winning solution. But what a way to have to prove that to them.

[Pirate Smile]

40. I saw that thread and ignored it. I'm glad I did. Sometimes I just see

threads that are obviously just trouble and I skip it.

Of course that means sometimes I'm completely unaware of some huge flare up of problems between different groups of people.

I'm oblivious - laa laa laa laaa laaa. Happy smiling people dancing. laa laa laaa.:D

[Firespirit]

41. I'm starting to think

that GD in general is obviously just trouble. I lurk around there but generally don't post anymore. Never did all that often anyway -- obviously, since I've been around since 2002 but have a low post count. I just didn't feel comfortable there.

I like this place though. Everyone in here seems to have their head screwed on straight and their feet planted firmly on the ground.

[Pirate Smile]

42. People don't take cheap shots or jump to conclusions and jump down

your throat. It is like a more polite conversation where you don't assume the worst about people or assign nasty, hidden motivations.

Not everybody here supported Kerry from the very beginning of the Primaries but it is possible to support one person and then learn more about another and come to love them both - maybe even your second love more then the first.

I can't believe how many people are still fighting the primaries and didn't get personally invested in JK during the General election.

I was so upset after the election. I've never cried like that about politics. It was actually worse that many of the deaths I've had in my family (I'm embarrassed to say that but it was so much broader and about the future, about the state of this country and and the world - a terrible loss in belief in the innate wisdom and goodness of the American people - It was pure despair).