I say we gotta regain congress and the presidency gradually

[JohnKleeb]

Maybe regain a few senate and house seats in 2006, and then the presidency and congress in 2008. This is the longest the GOP has had congress in their hands since the 20's, its so fucking sad.

[Pirate Smile]

1. I want either the Senate or the House in 2006 or else Bush will get away

with everything because there will be no investigations or checks and balances.

Even some RW organizations want a big shift in 2006

""He keeps expanding the federal involvement into state and local affairs," said Chris Edwards, a tax and budget expert at the Cato Institute, a think tank that often supports the president's agenda. "My hope would be that there would be an electoral rebuke of big <-government> Republicans like there was when the tectonic plates shifted in 1994."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9307-2005Feb8.html

These guys are so nuts - even Republicans have said it took the Republicans 10 years to become as arrogant as it took the Democrats 40 years to become - which was when we lost the House in 1994.

Tectonic shift in 2006!!!!!

[JohnKleeb]

2. I know, I am just being realistic

Hey if we can regain either house or senate in 2006, that would be nice but I dont see ti happening, sigh because people are idiots.

[Pirate Smile]

3. Well, one thing we really have to start doing is going after the Senate

and House seats in Blue states very, very hard. I know we consider them the "nice" republicans but they are a vote for Frist and Bush policies almost all the time. They voted for Rice and Gonzoles. They are NOT our friends. They have to go!

The lovely Maine Senators, Chafee, etc. need to go blue or lose. We will never win back control without taking over those seats along with the RW hacks in blue states like Santorum. Even then we need some red Senate seats.

We gave up and didn't even run people against so many Republicans that I DO have HOPE if we really challenge them everywhere.

[JohnKleeb]

4. I think we can win back that seat in PA

I agree, they're not our friends, we need to beat em. Can you believe it though, this is the first time since the 20's that the right wing has controlled the supreme court, congress, and white house?

[Pirate Smile]

7. It is incredibly dangerous. I think we could run a campaign for 2006

partly on this - at least make it an issue nationally.

I know many people who do not like one party controlling everything - Independents who lean republican. The checks and balances were one of the most brilliant parts of our Constitution.

I know of one "safe" Republican seat that is prime for a pick-up. Nussle's seat is in blue Eastern Iowa. It went 55%-45% for Kerry in 2004 and Gore in 2000. He is probably going to run for Governor. We need to win that seat. That is not a "competitive" seat otherwise. Why? It sure as hell should be.

I'm ready to fight. Yeeaaarrggghhh! :)

[JohnKleeb]

11. Isnt Nussle head of the Budget commitee?

Yes that would be a nice pick up.

[Pirate Smile]

12. Yes, he is. Nussle and Leach (my District) are the Representatives for

the blue side of Iowa. Leach is very moderate and a bit of a maverick but, damn, we need these seats. Nussle is an ass but I guess he is good at answering his constituents.

[JohnKleeb]

13. I know who Leach is, one of only six republicans in the house

to oppose the IWR resolution. Yeah, republicans have been able to make inroads in traditional blue areas that are socially conservative but more economically liberal by being ultra conservative all around but bring home stuff for the district. Will Vilsack be running again or not? We got Tim Kaine running for Governor here and hes pretty liberal by Virginian standards.

[Pirate Smile]

21. I think Vilsack has personally term limited himself and he isn't supposed

to be running again.

[JohnKleeb]

22. Who will run in his place? We have one term limits here in Virginia

Which is stupid shit.

[Pirate Smile]

24. Do you think Warner is going to run for Pres? If he does I don't know

why he would run for anything (Senate) in 2006, you essentially have to run for President for 2 full years - nomination then general election.

[Pirate Smile]

27. I just looked in the Iowa forum because I haven't heard of any Dem

names to run. Same thing over there. A few Repubs, like Nussle, but no Dems along with an acknowledgment that Vlisack won't run again.

[angrydemocrat]

5. Did here that another democrat

Besides Nelson is falling for * Social Security crap. I heard there is another one now but I can't remember the name now. But now there is another joining Nelson.

[JohnKleeb]

6. Who other than Ben Nelson is joining Bush on SS?

Whoever it is will go on my shit list.

[angrydemocrat]

8. I'm Looking For The Name Now

I will post it when I find it.

[Pirate Smile]

9. Delaware - Carper, I think. One of the Senators I've never seen or heard

of, which is weird. He signed the letter along with everyone except Nelson so hopefully he was just yapping too much. We will see.

I checked - Tom Carper-D-Del.

[JohnKleeb]

10. Jesus Christ

A dem from a safe blue state doing this and hes safe too damnit, jeez. Doesnt surprise me though since Carper is really really moderate.

[Pirate Smile]

14. I think he was saying any reform needs to be bipartisan, blah, blah, blah.

He can't be stupid enough to really jump on a ship that is already sinking.

[JohnKleeb]

15. eww

This whole SS reform is basically an attempt to fill the GOP dream of getting rid of SS.

[sandnsea]

17. He supported the Class Action Bill

So I wouldn't be surprised if he's turning. Maybe he's just naive. I'd never heard of him before either.

[JohnKleeb]

18. Please explain that bill to me

He's a former Governor of that state. I know a little about Delaware since I vacation in Dewey Beach.

[sandnsea]

25. It's complicated

I doubt that I understand all of it. But it pulls Class Actions out of states and into federal court. If less than 2/3 of the plaintiffs live in the same state, it goes to federal court. That would seem to make sense because lawyers tend to file these suits in friendly states. I understand Mississippi, of all places, is a friendly jury state. So I guess the idea is to make class action law more consistent and fair.

But the problem is that in addition to the 2/3 rule, if a corporation isn't chartered in the state were the 2/3 are, the case also goes to federal court. Reid said 58% of corporations are chartered in Delaware. So automatically most cases would go to federal court.

The problem I've seen referred to most is that federal courts are already clogged so class actions will just sit for an eternity. But it seems to me that it also means it pretty much voids state law. In many, many cases state law is tougher than federal. Especially on environment, civil rights, labor laws, etc. That was one of the amendments, civil rights and labor laws don't go to federal court. Defeated.

So in my mind, we just ended state civil law in regards to consumer protection, for all practical purposes. Although it does have to go to the House I think, but I imagine it will sail through there.

[angrydemocrat]

20. LOL I'm glad you found it

Hell I was still looking. Dang! My brain has stopped working as of late. Sheesh. Thanks for finding it.

[Pirate Smile]

23. I went to Josh Marshall's Talking Points Memo. He is all over the SS

issue and I knew he would have Carper's name displayed prominently.

Here it is http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

and from what it says over there Carper is trying to back track already. Ha Ha. No surprise there.

He also has a good piece explaining the strategy going on behind the scenes.

[angrydemocrat]

29. He better be back tracking

I don't know when he is up for re-election but he starts backing shit for brains he will be put on a shit list himself especially over SS.

[sandnsea]

16. These things tend to flood

I kind of think we'll either have a noticeable increase in 2006, or it's back to the drawing board. We may not take back the House or Senate, that's going to be quite a task with gerrymandering and the rest. But people really do have a herd mentality. That's why it was so important for Democrats to be upbeat and supportive throughout the campaign, which we didn't really get. So we'll either manage to pull our factions together and find the common thread of what it means to be a Democrat and it'll appeal to the masses, or we'll probably lose even more seats.

[TayTay]

19. I think we will pick up seats in 2006

But probably not enough to wrest control from the Rethugs, unless something catastrophic happens. (That could happen, but the Dem have to be united in order to welcome the voters back if and when the Thuggies finally piss them off. We need to be able to go after rural farm votes and a lot of the displaced workers votes. We almost had them last time, but the 9/11 pull was too strong.)

I think we can take the Senate in 2008. In that year, there will be a ton of Rethug seats up. I do think Santorum can be had, and I plan on donating the PA Dems for that purpose. I also think that Chafee in RI can be had, he is so wishy-washy and the Rethugs don't really like him either. The two Repubs from Maine are good people and part of that tiny species of critter known as 'Moderate Repubs' but they vote for Rethug leadership, so I would oppose them. (Too bad, they are actually not bad, as far as Repubs go.)

[angrydemocrat]

26. I'm hoping Dem's pick up Frist's Seat in 2006

He's not running again and even if he did I feel he could be beat. But you never know with these dumbass hillbillies around here. I will be glad to get moved from this shitty ass state.

[sandnsea]

30. Ford?

Do you think he can do it? Sure, he's not the most reliable Dem, but he'd be a damned site better than Frist. That would be exciting. Is he going to run? What reason has Frist given for not running again? I wasn't aware of that.

[JohnKleeb]

31. Thats what I hear

but you know the purer than thou will not be happy with that.

[angrydemocrat]

38. Sandy We Are Hoping Ford

Will run and take. If he does run I think we have a good chance if certian parts of the state will get out and vote this time. We thought they were going to get off their lazy ass and go vote for Kerry. And you see what happen there. Hell democrats thought for sure this state was going to be a blue state. But the only thing with Ford if certain areas don't get off their ass like the memphis area and vote he may not. Because there is still a lot of dumbass, rednecks that are KKK in Tennessee. In the Tri-Cities Area there is a place called Bluff City that is full of the shit. It sits between Bristol and Johnson City. This state sucks! So really it will depend on if we can get the voters out. Hell we worked our ass off here for Kerry and anyone from this state will tell democrats really thought this was going to be a blue state but when it come time to vote people didn't get out and vote.

[sandnsea]

28. Smith can be had

Here in Oregon. He's got alot of money, but we definitely have Dem wind at our backs right now. If we don't go looney and scare rural Oregon, we can take Smith. That's in 2006. I'm really hoping the locals settle down so I can be part of that.

[ginnyinWI]

32. Kleeb, I'm curious

How is it that you are so interested in politics at a young age? Does it run in your family? Like a relative is in public office, or something? Or was it this campaign and Kerry in particular that got you interested. Curious minds... :)

[JohnKleeb]

33. Well here goes

When I was a little kid and an only child at the time, my mom and dad would both work a lot so my mom's parents would take care of me. I loved spending time over there and Baba as I called her then, I call her grandma now like a good merikan :D, so my grandparents took care of me and I watched CSPAN with them. My grandparents are first generation Americans, their parents were from Slovakia and Slovenia, and my grandparents grew up poor as the children of miners and their fathers were in the United Mine Workers of America. I remember watching a lot of CSPAN and thinking that the republicans were meanies, I remember Orrin Hatch in specific as a jerk and I remember Dick Gephardt as a democrat I really liked. I went to Clinton's first inaguration at age 5 with my dad but I hear he only went for the music, typical of my dad really :). I dont know why honestly, I campaigned for Gore in the school mock election at 13 in 8th grade as well. No, we're too poor and uninflunetial to have family in office :D, Thats a long story short, my dad's family was also quite political as well.

[ginnyinWI]

34. interesting

I have heard that there is a difference between Generation X and Generation Y--now I'm not sure if that covers someone who is 17, but my daughter who is 22 is a Gen-Yer.
The Gen-Xers are more involved in their own lives and ambitions, but the Gen-Yers are more inclined to care about larger issues, such as political organizations and civic life. This trend is very true for my own kids: the first two are Gen-X. The oldest is 30 (I was a mom at 22), and she is a translator and ESL teacher. My second, a son, is 25 and in school learning computer animation. Both have never been into joining groups or causes. They vote Dem, but that's about it.
My third, the 22 year old Gen-Yer, is the opposite. She is very interested in changing things. She runs a campus discussion group, contributes to the alternative newspaper, she goes to political rallies, and her chosen career is Educational Psychology because she wants to help people. She loved working at a camp last summer for people with mental disabilities. So she's very people and socially conscious.

Ok not to be boring, but my point is that I've read that Gen-Yers are a lot like the WWII generation because of their interest working within the system and in banding together to effect change, and this is different than the ones who are just a little older.
And personally, I think my own baby boomer generation was more likely to believe in causes and band together, and be more idealistic, too--of course we were a lot more anti-establishment. It's funny how each generation has its own reasons and influences that makes it unique. We had the Vietnam War, and Civil Rights and Womens' Lib to rally around.

So that's why I asked--I was just thinking about what makes each generation care about things beyond their own personal lives. :)

[elshiva]

36. At 23, I'm what some call an "echo-boomer."

I share about 98% of the values of my parents generation. I grew up listening to the Beatles and reading old Doonesbury comic books. Both my parents protested against the Nam and are and always were Democrats. Which is why I guess I am a Derryiac, those men are about my parents age and share their values, too.

[Withywindle]

42. Ha, I'd never heard that term before!

But I guess it describes me pretty well, although I'm solidly Gen-X (35, born '69). Right down to the old Doonesbury comics!

[TayTay]

37. I think the new causes for the next generation

will be the environment, the unfair distribution of wealth and education. The Environment is actually a cross-generational and cross-class issue. As Dems found out in Montana in the last election, all sorts of people care about having decent lands, decent air and a decent living space for animals to support hunting and fishing. I believe that we have to reframe the discussion on this away from the 'environmentalists are kooks and cost people jobs' to the environment is about how I can continue to live in this world and have the resources I need and leave a sustainable world to the next generation. I think Gen-Y is accutely aware of this.

The problem with the unfair distribution of wealth is that is sheilds all the wrong people from the pressing problems of the country. We've heard this in the disconnect between who serves in the nation's armed forces and who sits back and directs those armed forces. We cannot continue down this path where a ruling side doesn't see the problems the middle and poor classes do. That is a one-way ticket to collapse. (We are playing with extraordinary fire on this one. The lies that the Rethugs have been telling are deeply, deeply dangerous for democracy. The Dems have to get their shit together and present a case for why some income redistribution is absolutely necessary. Otherwise we will drift into a have and have-not society and then we will enter a period of permanent social unheavel. Very bad and dangerous stuff.)

Education is of the utmost importance. Again, the Rethugs in Texas have lately been making noises that the idea of 'public education' is somehow communist. (Nevermid that public education is the very pillar that built the USA into a great country.) We must find a way to finance education for our kids in a better way. Too many kids are being shut out of college because of the cost. We will dwindle into irrelevency if we allow countries such as China and India to finance what amounts to free education while we pummel our students into debt. (What happens to our advantages in science and mathematics if foreign students stop coming here due to restricitive immigration policies and shut off the avenues our own people take to get educated. This is a society that will go into collapse.)

Anyway, that's some of what I see. What say you? (And TayTay is nuts is a reasonable reply. Sometimes I am.)

[elshiva]

40. TayTay is not nuts! I'm a TayTay fan.

All of these issues are incredibly relevant. I would of course add GLBT rights and women's rights. More power distributed in government among women, blacks, and/or queers.

[sandnsea]

39. I see that too

I have one 28, 21 and 19. And a 26 yo step son. That is so weird to type those big numbers, it still shocks me.

I see alot of differences between the two generations and the younger ones definitely have it more together. My 28 year old is politically aware, but he's more like some of the anarchists we have around here. :eyes: The younger ones didn't join groups, but they talk alot with their friends and just seem more reasonable about how to make change.

I remember a very long time ago we were at the fair. I don't remember how it came up but the ride operator was talking about kids. He said he notices that every few years the generations change. And that my little ones generation were alot calmer and better behaved then the one before it. Weird huh? Maybe we should be calling them into some child policy meetings.

[elshiva]

35. Great story, Kleeb.

I'm sick and tired of Hatch. How can we get him out of the Senate?

[JohnKleeb]

41. Move a whole bunch of minorities to Utah

:evilgrin:.

[elshiva]

43. Great Idea!

How about a dozen lesbian communes?

[JohnKleeb]

44. ha sure

even better lesbian minorities with advanced degrees :).

[TheDonkey]

45. With plans like *'s SS reform he is practically handing Democrats seats

he's extreme policy gives us a real chance to sweep the Congress if the Democrats play it right.

[ginnyinWI]

46. yes it does---

Please see an interesting opinion on Liberal Oasis this morning on just this subject (it's not long):
http://www.liberaloasis.com/

[TheDonkey]

50. Good little article

and very true. Dems need to capitalize on this SS nightmare. Not only is it confusing and convuluted the Republicans don't even know what to do about it.

I heard someone on TV say it was even worse (buerocratic wise) than Hillary Care. Ouch that's got to hurt the thug base.

[JohnKleeb]

47. If only people knew this last fall sigh

[karynnj]

48. SS was mentioned at the end of the campaign

Kerry talked about Bush's plan to privatize SS in the last month after there was a Susskind (sp?) in-the NYT magazine that talked about it and also had the strange comment about not being reality based. Bush denied that was his plan and the media criticized Kerry for using SS to scare seniors. (Kerry's numbers for likely benefit cuts were really close - no surprise from someone on the Finance committee.)

[JohnKleeb]

49. Good for Kerry

Sigh, damnit I Wanted to be in DC three weeks ago celebrating John not protesting Bush.