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KERRY: If I told you that three generals sat here this morning and told us that it is inevitable, in their judgment, that troops are going to draw down, do you agree with that?
ROSEN: I do, certainly. I think that's the unanimous opinion of most Americans.
KERRY: Do you all agree?
SAID: It seems to be the mood in this country to withdraw. I'm not saying that this would be the right thing for Iraq.
BIDDLE: Withdrawal is the policy of everyone, including the administration. I mean, the question is how far and how fast.
KERRY: Let me sort of probe that a little bit for a second. Assuming that there is an inevitability to that and that the current levels of troops have proven to be inadequate to maintain -- we know we're coming back to the level we were at last year when the violence rose, the surge, by definition, was temporary. It ends this summer. That's over. So we're facing a reality here, and the reality is there are going to be less troops. We can't sustain at this current level, according to our own military. There'll be testimony tomorrow to that effect. It's been in the newspapers lately. Everybody reads the newspapers, so the bad guys know was well as we do that we're under that stress and they can play to that, incidentally. It's not a very good way to manage security or any other choices, but that's where we are. In that light, is it also inevitable that, the fundamental forces driving the divide between Sunni and Shia and the Kurd issues, that there will be sectarian violence of some level no matter what we do? Is that inevitable?
SAID (?): Yes.
KERRY: Mr. Biddle?
BIDDLE: I think the level of sectarian violence can get down to the point where it will no longer be on the front pages of American newspapers, which it actually did over the whole course of the last six to eight months.
KERRY: By what means, absent political reconciliation and fundamental differentials (ph)? By what means?
BIDDLE: By the means of the local bilateral cease-fires that we've seen over the course of the last six to 10 months.
KERRY: By bilateral cease-fires. So we're going to have to buy out each individual group and each individual group will in essence be empowered within their own little area.
BIDDLE: I think our payments to them is actually a secondary...
KERRY: Well, leave the payments out. Just take the reality, they're going to have powerful within their own area, highly decentralized.
BIDDLE: Absolutely.
KERRY: So that works completely contrary to the fundamental strategy of the administration, which is to have a central government of Iraq, Iraqi national identity and a functioning national government.
BIDDLE: The explanation of our policy that the president continues to make, as he did, for example, in describing Maliki's defensive in Basra, would not be the one I would choose, for example. I don't think stability in Iraq through top-down reconciliation is realistic. I don't think that means that stability is impossible. I do think that mechanism is unlikely.
KERRY: But that stability is only going to be maintained so long as we're there, as a tampening-down force.
BIDDLE: And that's precisely the heart of the primary prescription I would offer to the committee. Now, the question of how many troops we keep there, and for how long, and with what mission...
KERRY: So you're in the 100 years war school?
BIDDLE: No, no. I'm not, for a variety of reasons.
KERRY: Well, where do you draw the line?
BIDDLE: Well, I think you draw the line the much the way we've drawn it, for example, in the Balkans.
KERRY: Ad hoc, or what?
BIDDLE: Well, the objective, I think, if we're going to take a bottom-up approach as opposed to a top-down approach is we're going to try to keep the violence down, keep the country stable, long enough for very long-term, slow political processes to...
KERRY: Can the United States support 10 to $12 billion a month until that happens?
BIDDLE: I would hope and assume that as our mission transitioned out of war fighting and into peacekeeping, both our casualties and our expenditures and our troop count could all come down. Could any of them come down to zero in Iraq without the violence escalating? I think that's very unlikely.
KERRY: Mr. Said.
SAID: I think a significant level of troops could be drawn down within two years if -- and I don't think there's a dichotomy between a bottom-up and a top-down approach. I think the bottom-up approaches have to coalesce into a national approach.
KERRY: But you talked about people conceivably coming to power and rising to the surface here that would not necessarily be either our choices or particularly pleasing to us.
SAID: Yes.
KERRY: And that smacks of what I've been hearing from certain sectors, that we may even see the appearance of a strongman, one strongman, two, one in Shia, one in Sunni -- is that what you're talking about?
SAID: I'm talking about definitely Iraq looking more like Russia under Putin, or...
KERRY: Is that what our troops ought to be doing? Is that what they were sent over there to die for and we're paying for?
SAID: It will be better than Saddam Hussein. Putin is better than the Communist party in the Soviet Union. Azerbaijan is better than it was under the Soviet Union. And the most important thing is that Iraq will not become a hotbed for Al Qaida, will not become a source of instability...
KERRY: Well, is there any circumstance -- this Al Qaida thing, I haven't met an Iraqi who has suggested to me that if we weren't there Al Qaida would find any rationale to exist. They hate them. They don't want foreign jihadists on their territory. Particularly if we weren't there, one or the other is going to fight to run the show, Sunni or Shia.
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