Did anyone catch John Kerry on MSNBC? I guess he did a great job:

[beachmom]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6526340

[beachmom]

1. Oh, geez, now some yahoo is attacking him on Kos:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/7/22/145431/588/72/555220

"Tar Baby". In context, apparently Kerry used the word properly but people who are clueless are attacking him on it.

[TayTay]

2. Thread on DKos about this

on the bad choice of wording in that interview

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2008/7/22/145431/588/192#c192

This link references a reply already from JK's office on this.

[beachmom]

3. Thanks. Better to do the statement, but I honestly have never heard

the word before, and the AAs who commented in the thread so there was nothing offensive about it. Of course, the hand wringers enjoyed piling on. Oh well, it was said and then corrected very quickly.

[Mass]

4. You can count on somebody on kos to write a thread on a non subject.

[beachmom]

5. It brings out the funny comments, though. Somebody said "This

has already been covered", and links to this diary from Nov. 1, 2006:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/11/1/122617/566/674/264757

Crap, I think I should bookmark it for the next time.

[Mass]

6. Nobody recommended the diary, which is a pretty good sign.

Some answers were very good, I thought.

[politicasista]

7. Saw that post and there wasn't anything offensive

about it.

I am not piling on the senator for his error, unfortunately, it does reinforce the bad perception that he is "gaffe-prone" or just a "clumsy" politician. He has been a good surrogate for Obama, but there a lots of things that are going to be taken out of context.

[Mass]

8. To whom? It seems to me that the few people who piled on Kerry

were just looking for some reason to pile on him. They would have found something else. (I recognized a couple as Clinton's supporters).

Most people thought the diary was a lot about nothing.

I have to say I have NEVER seen a diary with 200 + answers and no recommend. The diarist may have broken a record.

[politicasista]

10. After re-reading the comments

No, there wasn't nothing wrong with it. Guess I am just going back to a conversation a day after the botched joke incident (the differences between Kerry and Obama).

It's too long to explain (I may have explained it before) so I will just leave at it being much ado about nothing.

[Mass]

12. Not sure what you meant, so I'll forget it. If you have a chance, you should watch the interview.

Those who saw it found it excellent. (I do not think the person who wrote the diary saw it).

[politicasista]

13. No, it's ok.

It's really difficult to explain. But I will watch the video and see for myself. Thanks. :)

I agree with you that it is amazing that the so-called foot in mouth diary got no responses. That speaks volumes. :rofl:

[beachmom]

9. Did you find it offensive, politicasista? Because, as of yet, I have

come across no one who has. The whole thing is hand wringing.

[politicasista]

11. I don't find it offensive at all

I think it's unfortunate it had to be used and make people think that it or anyone that uses it is racist. Maybe I am thinking that it's so important for Democrats (and the good senator himself) to have and keep a strong rapport with AA and the AA community that they must be careful (Obama has had to do this too, and he is been sucessuful) at not alienating AA with what what they say or do.

[beachmom]

14. Um, not a problem, don't you think? All you have to say is that

John Kerry endorsed Obama EARLY in January, the first major Democrat to do so, and he is one of Obama's closest allies. That's ALL you have to say. Oh, and that he picked him for the keynote address in '04, plucking him out of obscurity.

[politicasista]

15. And I respect that.

And no it's not a problem. And I appreciate him being one of Obama's closest allies and giving Obama his first big break, even if some (not all) of Obama's supporters realize or respect that.

Maybe that's where I am coming from. I have been looking at a lot of urban magazines and radio (i.e. JET, Essence, etc.) and his endorsement of Obama wasn't covered as much as the ones from HRC, Edwards, Gore (his had to be because he was former VP and a Nobel Peace Prize winner), and Richardson. And at Essence.com, there is very little mention of him as one of Obama's GE surrogates. And yes, I do weigh my two cents in over there and I have been saying what you have posted in response. At Ebonyjet.com, there was talk of Obama's "fantasy" cabinet positions and the only one Kerry was mentioned for was Ambassador of France because he looks and speaks French and so on.

I am not dissing Kerry for helping Obama or being his best (or one of) surrogates. I will just be careful next time not to give credibility to anything taken out of context.

[beachmom]

16. No, I'm just saying if you're in a conversation, you can lay those facts out.

I agree that they are not well known. But I think once you point them out, I think you'll get a different reaction. I have a friend I walk with who did not know how heavily involved Kerry was in helping Obama, but once she did, well, she thinks quite a bit of Kerry. One person at a time.

[politicasista]

17. Went back and edit the post

I understand what you are saying. Finding people that are receptive is a good thing. It's always nice to hear that and other on the ground experiences. (I have a tendency to think before I type. It's hard sometimes. :)) I have a college friend (non blogger, political science major) who spouts off so much media spin (not about Kerry) about politics in General it's scary. He is really into Obama. (At the rate he's going, he might have burnout before the debates. :rofl:). He swallowed the spin on Kerry, but when I mentioned BCCI he claimed to have more respect for Kerry. He sounds like McCain sometimes, say one thing then say another :rofl:. I wish I could talk to my fam though. That's a work in progress.

[wisteria]

18. What error? It isn't a racist term?

You would have nothing to be offended about.

[politicasista]

19. No, I am not offended

It's too bad that all this has brought out the loose cannon, gaffe-prone, clumsy politician, "Stay away from Obama" garbage. Again, Kerry has to apologize for a misspeak or using a poor word.

It's like the botched joke story and the perception that people have bought into, that he doesn't think before he speaks, something that my dad says Obama knows how to do very well. Choose his words carefully (which explains the long pauses, uhs before he speaks, and yes, he has made gaffes too, and like Kerry, they have been taken out of context), and it has nothing to do with this comment.

[Mass]

20. No, it is NOT. You insist it is and I have seen nowhere that suggests that,

Now, if you can point us to somewhere that does. It is very far from that, so I do not know why you insist. I like you a lot, but I think you are wrong, except if you can point me to somewhere that suggest that (and that would mean more than a couple of serial Kerry bashers at work).

[politicasista]

21. You're right. I am wrong

I have been wrong on a lot of Kerry related things of late.

It was just in that diary, but I agreed with you above, luckily no one recommended it, so it's no big deal. It may be best just to keep the sensitive issues to myself, though this isn't offensive.

Maybe it's just wanting (like everyone here) to see the senator be respected in some sort of form. Endorsing Obama was a smart (some will say bold) move on his part, but it didn't get as much press in urban magazines or talk radio (except for the interview with Michael Baidsen :)) like some of the others endorsements, but that's the way the media works sometimes.

One thing I didn't know last week (from one of karynnj's posts) that AA turnout was higher in 04 than last elections? (ok, I am paraphrasing)

That sounds impressive considering I didn't hear Tom Joyner, Joe Madison, or other radio shows mention that. They (or the callers) were more busy focusing on what Kerry did wrong as a candidate or just missing BC. I am sure it will be even higher because of Obama, but mainly people who are just sick of the war, gas prices, economy, unemployment, etc.

And again, apologies for ruining this thread. Lurk mode might be best right now. :hi:

[karynnj]

24. Come on - Obama himself has made more gaffes

I like Obama and think he could be a great President, but he has gotten away with far more gaffes than Kerry. From speaking of lives "being wasted" to 57 states (!) The bitter comment - which was tone deaf?

[MBS]

25. ditto

Obama has gotten away with more in part, I think, because more people are more ready for change than in 2004.

[politicasista]

27. Yes, he has

and no one is calling him "gaffe-prone" or a clumsy politician. He is being seen as a smart politician. I agree he has gotten away with them more than Kerry, and like Kerry's, they have been taken out of context. Especially the "bitter" one even though it was the truth.

As I posted above, I wasn't offended by what was said, and I know I am the wrong person on this (and a lot of things Kerry related of late) much ado about nothing issue, so it might be best just to keep the sensitive issues/opinions to myself.

Sorry for ruining a good thread. And if I came across as a put down on the good senator. Apologies.

[PresidentObama]

22. Great interview. Kerry is really Obama's best weapon on the campaign trail.

Effective and hard-hitting.

[wisteria]

23. Does anyone know what program he was on? I am trying to find the video. n/t

[beachmom]

28. KerryVision has another appearance of Kerry on Fox.

http://www.kerryvision.net/2008/07/surge_protection.html#comments

I haven't watched it yet. Oh, I watched and it's not the MSNBC appearance.

I will say that doing a Google Blog Search, the "tar baby" remark has caused some rumbling from conservatives, our "friend" on Kos, and the Hillary deadender blogs, but nothing big, probably because Kerry is obviously no racist and was the first major Democrat to support Obama. Nobody is going to touch it, because it doesn't reaffirm convention wisdom. Remember, CW is always what gaffes are about -- and there is CW that the Republican Party has a race problem and a racist past with the southern strategy. Therefore, if a Republican had said it, there would have been more of a firestorm, just like how Kerry's botched joke reaffirmed CW that Democrats are anti-military and weaker on national security. I think groups like VoteVets are doing a good job pushing back on that meme, but it will take years to change that CW. Similarly, the GOP is racist CW is very much entrenched and will take years to undo.

The second reason why it didn't catch fire is that Kerry is not running for POTUS; still, Clark wasn't either and got attacked. So, in effect, Kerry's remark was not viewed as good enough to pounce on.

Edit: the appearance was on FOX, not MSNBC.

[wisteria]

29. I saw that appearance. It wasn't bad, but they always try to play gotcha.

Oh, and the anchors comment that he didn't want to argue with a Senator- yeah right only if the senator is Republican- a Democrat is prodded to try and get them to say something Fox can spin and use against them.

[Mass]

26. I guess he did a good job. Good enough for the Globe to notice.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/07/23/mccain_hits_rival_sharply_on_iraq/

...
Senator John F. Kerry of Massachusetts, the 2004 Democratic presidential nominee, came to Obama's defense, ridiculing McCain's remark about Obama being willing to "lose a war" to win the White House.

"That is just ridiculous and insulting," Kerry said on MSNBC. "Of course Barack Obama wants America to be successful."

Kerry said McCain is "flailing around on Iraq" now that Iraqi officials have generally agreed to Obama's timetable.
...

[beachmom]

30. A "Matthew Iglesias" award for a Right Wing Forum:

libertylounge.net/forums/33463-lets-see-if-blogs-pick-up.html

add "http://www"

They basically discuss how Tom Davis used the word, and got attacked, and now John Kerry used the word, and there is little response. They conclude that JK should not be called on it:

I don't think it was used in a racist way and I don't think the conservative blogs should be making a fuss about this.

I will also add that unless the term is USED in a racist way, it is not racist. But, I guess it needs to be banished from our vocabulary due to the fact that people can't get it into their skulls that usage is the key, not the word.