question for angrydem or anyone else--

[ginnyinWI]

I posted a reply to someone in Elections about how Kerry had over 7,000 cases while prosecutor and never lost one--I took the info from your Index, angry dem. This person wants some documentation for it--can you supply it? I did give them a link to an article from the New Yorker about Kerry's days as a prosecutor, but it only states the amount of cases, not that he won them all. So I have only that one quote by JK to go on--let me know if you have a link on it, too. Thanks!

[TayTay]

1. Not sure, but I think those figures are wrong

Maybe closer to half that.

From The Boston Globe Series:
http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061803.shtml

In listing his accomplishments, Kerry greatly inflates the reduction in the backlog of cases on his watch, an achievement that he has described in more grandiose terms over time.

These days, he often says he wiped out an inventory of 12,000 criminal cases. That's up from a claim in a 1984 Kerry campaign biography of a cut to 228 from 11,000 in 18 months. But in a May 1979 interview with The Sun, Kerry said he engineered a drop to 228 from 3,000 before the backup climbed to about 500. A 1978 Droney reelection advertisement, which Kerry helped write, said the dropoff was from 4,523 cases to 716.

State records for the period show a sharp dropoff in the criminal caseload of every county of the state, led by Middlesex, which was helped by a $250,000 federal grant. The precise figure could not be determined from official reports, however. But they show the entire superior court caseload, including backlog, never exceeded 7,265 during Kerry's tenure.

Kerry said he isn't sure where his figures came from but recalled a concerted effort to clean up a mess. "We adjudicated a number of them, we had to dismiss a whole bunch for lack of evidence, lack of witnesses, people had moved or didn't want to testify," he said. "We went through every case."

Too bad there is a numbers problem, becaue the achievement was still significant.

[sandnsea]

2. Well one thing

I'm fairly certain you can have cases in a prosecutor's office that never make it to court or even get charged. I would think there would always be a number of cases where evidence is still being coordinated to issue search warrants and arrest warrants.

[TayTay]

3. I suspect the answer is in all those ...

dropped cases that probably had to be dropped due to loss of witnesses, losing the evidence and so forth. Sigh! This has been a perception problem for a while. Long Story! (The Globe problem.)

[angrydemocrat]

4. The exact number is 7,265

And the imformation can be found on page 174 in the book "The Complete Biography By The Boston Globe Reporters Who Knew Him Best" in the chapter called Decade in Exile.

Edit to add: According to the book they say that- Kerry certainly modernized the DA office, but he embellishished his legacy in later years. Kerry has over the years, increasingly inflated his efforts in reducing backlog cases. Early in his campaign for the White House, Kerry often said he wiped out an inventory of 12,000 criminal cases. .........

In fact state records show that the entire caseload including backlog never exceeded 7,265 during Kerry's tenure.

[ginnyinWI]

5. thanks, AD

I'll give them that info too. If anyone is interested, this exchange is in this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=333552#333973

[angrydemocrat]

8. Someone In That Thread

Trying to be a smartass over the issue. But according to the book and the reporters who wrote the book their was 7,265 cases wiped out during his tenure and what the hell does it matter how, the fact is he done it and it also say's he never lost a case in a case while he was in Middlesex. It is well known by people that the man was a great prosecutor. They interviewed people that worked with him then for the book and none of them said anything in a negative way about him as a prosecutor it was all positive. And if there was anything negative about they would have put it in the book. If you read the book you will see what I mean. Plenty of negative crap in it as well as positive.

But the fact of the matter is during his tenure the 7265 cases were wiped out (Kerry said there was more than that and I believe him but I used the number the reporters give in my essay) He tried and put behind bars several crimals incuding rapist. This man was far from a damn loser when it came to being a prosecutor. And all the cases he ever prosecuted in Middlesex he won.

Some of these people will do anything to trash this man. It's crazy.

[ginnyinWI]

11. well it's all fixed up now

I gave them enough information so that it made sense to them, and they are fine with it now. I don't think they were against JK, just wanted to see how that many cases could be believable. Cause it was so many cases--and if he dealt with them without going to court, it still counted as resolving them. So it's all to the good. :)

[angrydemocrat]

12. I was talking about post 99

Not the one you posted the info for. It really don't matter anyhow because some people just look for anything to trash the man over. It just pisses me off :grr: :grr: But it will happen regardless of what you say, prove, or explain to some people. Some of these people hate every democrat just about it. Makes you wonder why the hell they stay around since they are so damn dissatisfied with all the democratic leaders.

[ginnyinWI]

15. Ok I went back and read that one--and I agree with you ! n/t

[sandnsea]

6. See my post

Since I never trust the Globe, I wonder if they're comparing two different sets of numbers (and know they're doing it because they just can't help themselves). What is in the courts is not going to reflect cases at the DA's office. Is there anything in that book that refers to any news articles where we could check to see if JK is referring to the office as a whole and not just filed court cases.

[angrydemocrat]

7. I went back to the book to look

In the back of the book there is a section called "A Note On Sources" and it was chapter 9 where it talks about his days as a prosecutor. This is part of what they have listed as sources.

"Ex-Congress Candidate Kerry Named First Assistant DA," - Lowell Sun, Jan. 24,1977

"3.8 million infusion": "Kerry's Resignation Didn't Surprise Droney," - Lowell Sun, May 23,1979

"never exceeded 7,265": annual reports of the Massachusetts Trial Court, fiscal years 1976 through 1979

"raised that number to 10,772":Kerry announcement of candidacy for lieutenant governor, February 26,1982

"inventory of 12,000 criminal cases": Kerry interview.

"Kerry was directing investigastion": Interviews with Kerry and J. William Codinha

"Winter was sentenced": Attorneys for Winter, Sperlinga Ask for New OPinball Case Trial," Lowell Sun, May 27,1978

"hitchhike murder": Richard Gaines, "The DA and the Gag Order," Boston Phoenix, October 24,1978

"Fine in Job-Selling," Lowell Sun, Sept.7, 1979; Middlesex Superior Court dockets 77-3124 and 78-3971


** They have listed other source but a lot of this stuff they have listed doesn't have a date or place where you might go to look at the information for yourself. I noticed a lot of this stuff came from the Lowell Sun and if anyone knows anything about Massachusetts papers knows that is one of the more suckier papers and those people have always had it out for Kerry. They are worse than the Boston Globe ever thought about being. Not saying all the articles are totally false but I would say that they may not be twisted somewhat coming from the Lowell Sun.

[TayTay]

9. It's a shame that this became a numbers game

And kind of ridiculous. Kerry cleaned up an office that was a mess. When he got there the daily case load was defined by a box of index cards with the case info. If anybody ever lost or accidentally disposed of that box of index cards, the whole friggin Middlesex County Justice system would have been in a shambles. He fixed that. He also hired full-time lawyers, many of them women (and this was a 'good ole boy' state that didn't have many professional women in DA offices.) He professionalized that office, hired a grant writer and took in some federal largesse to do some good over there. And he won some significant cases. He was also loyal to his boss and took a walk when it became clear that his boss wanted him to go because of conflicting power interests. He was a good guy and a loyal employee.

There are no reports that Kerry was a shlub who had a no-show job and didn't do anything. On the contrary, he showed up every day, dawn to dusk and worked to make the office a responsible place. He did a good job for the citizens of Middlesex County. Nobody says he didn't. He had a good rep. To reduce this to a, 'he said 12,000 and it was 7,000 cases' argument ignores the good work that was actually done. It's a Globe piece of bullshit that reduced a good job to a piddlingly stupid argument over numbers. (The least interesting thing about the job he did is the damn numbers, ferchrissakes.) Screw the Globe and screw their reliance on the idiotic numbers game of gotcha. Why, oh why doesn't the Globe stick to finding pols who are actually gaming the system and screwing the people out of their money? (Oh, that's right, because they went out drinking with those guys and they never went out drinking with Kerry. Well, that explains it all.) Ooooohhhh, that makes me so mad.

[angrydemocrat]

10. I have to agree with you about the numbers game

Hell when I wrote the essay that is in the biography thread I mention a lot of what you just did about how he tripled the staff in the DA's office and most were women, he launched initiatives such as programs to council rape victims and a system for fast tracking priority cases, how people that were considered the Droney loyalist said that had it not been for Kerry that Droney would have never won re-election, I wrote about several of the cases he prosecuted, and I tried to show how although he took on the major task of cleaning up, updating a very out of date and disorganized office, he was still working outside of his office duties as a hell of a prosecutor.

As far as the numbers I believe Kerry's numbers over theirs but because I have nothing to back his and the book says otherwise I used theirs and some people still try to twist the numbers to trash the man. The fact is regardless of how the hell the 7,265 cases were wiped out that fact remains they were wiped out during Kerry's tenure and the fact remains this man never lost a case he prosecuted in Middlesex either. So to try to twist the shit and make it sound like this man was anything other than a great prosecutor that worked his ass off and help many people doing is utter bullshit. The man was a excellent prosecutor and the facts speak for themselves.

[TayTay]

13. Thank you!

I just hate the idiotic and mindless numbers game. The Globe should know better than to get fixated on that worthless game, but they do. I'm telling ya, if only Kerry had just once taken those bunch of self-involved journos out for a few pops and then announced, "Drink up guys, I'm buying" a lot of his troubles with the Glob would never have happened. This is the problem with being a decent guy with scruples. Sometimes ya get on people's bad side for no good reason.

[angrydemocrat]

14. I posted the link to my essay in the thread above

So that people might see that there is more to this than a damn numbers game but there is still some asswipe trying to make a issue of the numbers:grr: But hell it is like I told Ginny it really don't matter some of these people will be that way regardless. Some of these people just look for anything to trash Kerry about and it pisses me off:grr: :grr: