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OMG, what a great story, Kerry vs DeMint over Hondoras

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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 09:23 PM
Original message
OMG, what a great story, Kerry vs DeMint over Hondoras
Don't want to quote from this one, just read Al and marvel over his story and choice of pics here:

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/thefield/3491/jim-demint-crybaby-us-senate

Kiss, kiss Al! LOL
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. The Pentagon is
Edited on Thu Oct-01-09 09:43 PM by ProSense
butting in, according to DeMint.

Why the hell would the Pentagon get involved?



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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. That is what I would like to know. Mr.Mc Connell should not be allowed to override the chairman's
Edited on Thu Oct-01-09 09:51 PM by wisteria
denial. Something isn't right about this.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. I want to know what Defense Dept budget line item
the funding is coming from. That line item needs to be cut or level-funded in the next budget, I think.

Talk about fraud waste and abuse!
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. I saw the twitter post from Demint and didn't understand what was going on. Good for Kerry
hanging tuff. Although, I don't like the update at all. So the whinny baby gets what he wants anyway. How frustrating for Senator Kerry.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 06:05 AM
Response to Original message
4. that's funny, what's with wingnuts and Twitter
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
5. It is just so wrong that he is going down there, saying that he is
Edited on Fri Oct-02-09 06:50 AM by karynnj
going to actively support a policy that is not the US policy. What is completely hypocritical is that the right wing was in outrage when Dodd, Pelosi and Kerry met, at various times, with the uncontested leader of Syria - even though they issued statements that they were listening and NOT negotiating - and in the case of Dodd and Kerry asked Condi Rice for questions they could ask for her.

He is not on the western hemisphere sub-committee and he really is going into a delicate situation. I really don't get why the Pentagon is facilitating this.


Here is a link to the WP on this - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/01/AR2009100105015.html'
They mentioned that Demint attacked Kerry on this on the Senate floor.

It also seems that Demint is exaggerating what Kerry did, he did not (and could not) say Demint can't go - he simply said the SFRC won't fund it. Given that Demint's main purpose is to stop government funding he is hypocrite.

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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Here is Demint's Senate speech (CSPAN's links for the Senate yesterday doesn't work)
Mr. DeMINT. Mr. President, I want to take a few moments in the middle of the debate on the Defense appropriations bill to talk about a situation in Honduras and, maybe equally important, a situation here in the Senate.

Honduras has come to the attention of many Americans because of the change in government there and the questions about whether this was done constitutionally. I had arranged a trip, along with a few House Members, to go to Honduras and meet with officials and find out more about the situation. Unfortunately, I found out this afternoon that the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee was blocking my trip, along with the State Department.

It is very concerning since no Member of the Senate has taken the time to go to Honduras , which is a very close ally to this country, where we have a military base. And they certainly depend on our support. I have a growing concern of what appears to be intimidation and bullying from our administration, and I wanted to have a fact-finding trip. This body normally accords fellow Members the courtesy, and this was very disturbing that we would use politics to block a trip such as this.

But I wish to give a little bit of background on Honduras . Since so many other things are going on, not many people here in the Senate seem to even be aware of the situation.

On June 28, then-President Manuel Zelaya was removed from office and arrested by the Honduran military, on orders from the Honduran Supreme Court, and in accordance with the Honduran Constitution.

Charged with crimes of both public corruption and abuse of power, President Zelaya was attempting to subvert the Honduran Constitution and install himself as a dictator in the mold of his close friend Hugo Chavez.

Within hours, the Obama administration made an uninformed decision to call this constitutional process a ``coup,'' despite no one at the State Department or the White House having made a thorough review of the facts and the law.

Instead, we simply follow the lead of the Western Hemisphere's most corrupt and anti-American tyrants: Fidel Castro of Cuba, Daniel Ortega of Nicaragua, and Hugo Chavez of Venezuela. The President sided with these thugs and against Honduras --a poor, loyal, and democratic friend of the United States.

To date, I am unaware of any provision in the Honduran Constitution that was violated in Zelaya's removal from office, except perhaps removing him from the country instead of putting him in jail.

The Congress, of Zelaya's party, the Supreme Court, the Attorney General, the Supreme Electoral Tribunal, and the vast majority of the Honduran people support Zelaya's removal.

The Honduran military has remained at all times under civilian control. The November 29 elections remain on schedule. Interim President Roberto Micheletti is not on the ballot. The nominees for the major political parties are campaigning, and the country's citizens are preparing for a free, fair, and transparent election.

If that does not sound like a coup to you, you are not alone. Last month, a thorough report--and I have it here--by the Congressional Research Service found that the removal of Zelaya and the actions of the Congress and Supreme Court were both legal and constitutional--a very detailed evaluation which apparently the administration has not taken the time to see. There was no coup. But the Obama administration, nevertheless, has cut off Honduras from millions of dollars of badly needed United States aid.

The trip I planned--which is tomorrow--along with three Members of the House of Representatives was to get to the bottom of this so we could report back to the Senate and the House as to what was going on.

Our trip met every necessary criteria. I have scheduled meetings with President Micheletti, the Supreme Court, and the leading candidates in next month's Presidential election. I was going to meet with the business and civic leaders.

This afternoon, I was informed that the Senator from Massachusetts, Senator Kerry, chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, was blocking the trip. No reason was given, except that there were concerns at the State Department. If I were the Obama State Department, I would have concerns too, concerns the American people might find out the truth about what we are doing to the Honduran people.

To date, not a single Member of the Senate has assessed the situation in Honduras firsthand, and the Obama administration refuses to allow Honduran leaders and even private citizens to come here to talk to us. What are they afraid of? Are they afraid of the world discovering that their policy is based on a lie concocted by Hugo Chavez and the Castro brothers? That we are backing a corrupt would-be tyrant?

This administration is only too eager--or at least seems to be too eager--to talk to any anti-American tyrant on Earth, but not even Members of Congress may visit a loyal ally 3 hours away.

I want to take this opportunity to thank the Republican leader, Senator Mitch McConnell, for stepping in and authorizing the trip. He would like to get to the bottom of this as well.

The trip is back on, and I look forward to reporting back to the Senate next week after my return. But this is an outrage, if not a surprise. For 8 months, President Obama has circled the globe, apologizing for America, appeasing our enemies, and insulting our friends. Meanwhile, the President has spent more time lobbying for the Olympics and appearing on late-night comedy shows than meeting with his advisers about the troop surge in Afghanistan.

Apparently, the administration is upset with me because I am asking for a debate and vote on two nominations they want for the State Department. Indeed, I was told today if I lifted my holds, the trip would be authorized by the Foreign Relations Committee.

The two nominees are Thomas Shannon, currently Assistant Secretary of State for Latin America, President Obama's nominee to be Ambassador to Brazil, and Arturo Valenzuela, currently an academic nominated to replace Shannon at the Latin American desk.

I am asking for debate and a vote on Mr. Shannon's nomination because he has supposedly been behind our policy in Latin America in recent years. Our mistakes in Honduras occurred on his watch, and with his advice. He was a Bush appointee, but I have a lot of questions about what is going on in Honduras . He supports the Obama aid cutoff and the ``coup'' classification. He hardly deserves now to represent America in the largest country in Latin America, at least without a debate and a vote.

Mr. Valenzuela shares these positions, even though he admitted at his confirmation hearing he was not up to date on the facts.

Unless and until the Obama administration reverses its ill-informed and baseless claim that Zelaya's removal was a coup and also restores American aid, I will continue to ask for a debate and vote on these nominees so we can discuss the issue openly on the floor of the Senate.

This country also needs to recognize the upcoming election, which has been going on. The campaign is open and transparent, but the Obama administration is threatening not to recognize the election, which is destabilizing the country and threatening to do more harm not only in Honduras but throughout Latin America. This policy is confirming Hugo Chavez. It certainly is not confirming a constitutional form of government.

I look forward to reporting back to my fellow Members what I find in Honduras . I again thank Mitch McConnell for taking the initiative to make sure the trip is authorized.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. You can watch DeMint lie on the floor of the Senate
It is stunning to see - he seems to be a thinner, cleaned up version of Rush Limbaugh. His call to have a debate and a vote is really not accurate - he has a hold so they can't bring the nominees up. How long can he keep the hold on - can Reid (or Kerry) over rule him? There has to be a catch or why was no Democrat willing to put a hold on John Bolton, when they all thoroughly rejected him?

It sounds like Mitch McConnell in authorizing may be paying for it. (I know the Democrats had hearings through their caucus - in teh basement - when they were out of power, so I assume that they have a budget.)
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. forgot the link
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
7. DeMint has recently graduated
from "horrible" to "vile". Is he planning a run for president?

On a side note: what's with that's ugly, ugly picture of JK? Is that the best they could find?
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. I think the picture of JK
was supposed to be a humorous play on DeMint's whine of "bullying tactics".

I'm not sure I like the humor but I get it.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Same here
and it is really hard to picture the gentlemanly Kerry as a "bully". He likely had to search hard for that photo, which is not one of Kerry's best.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. OK, you may be right
It's still an absolutely horrible picture.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
14. there's a Greatest post about this now
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
15. DeMint doesn't even show up for SFRC hearings. Frankly, that means
Edited on Fri Oct-02-09 06:19 PM by beachmom
the man is quite utterly unserious when it comes to foreign policy. He is catering to the right wing base for this one, and perhaps private corporations that are multinational and have "interests" in Honduras and through Latin America. This is purely ideological. And this is nothing like Kerry or Pelosi going to Syria. They didn't "back" the Syrian President following a coup and an ongoing conflict of who holds power in the country. The entire world is pretty united about resolving this peacefully.

I don't care for either the current "President" of Honduras nor the one in exile. But democracy has to mean something. And military coups are always wrong. You solve these things through constitutional means, not just grab a gun the second something goes awry.

The fact that Republicans are doing this is very troubling. DeMint is officially an ideological neanderthal to me.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Not to mention, Kerry and Dodd got a list of questions from Rice
after they offered. So, it is pretty hard to say that they did not have the "permission" they didn't need. Kerry spoke many, many times - including once to the Indian media that he would not, and could not legally, negotiate anything - but he could listen to other leaders.

It doesn't surprise me that the Republicans are doing this - they, in fact, are more in line with the US policies of the last 50 years. This is a point where Obama did turn the US policy and even many Democrats did not immediately follow. Many had in the past supported the Contras, who initiated a coup against an elected President. (Me - I am extremely proud that my daughter last year went with others from her MA college to protest the School of Americas.)
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
17. This story is on the front page of TPM. This comment is troubling, if true:
Edited on Fri Oct-02-09 07:24 PM by beachmom
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/10/how-did-kerry-try-to-thwart-demints-honduras-trip--and-how-did-demint-foil-him.php?ref=fpb

Rachel Maddow had a reporter on yesterday about this story who said that McConnell got the funding through the Armed Services Committee. For what it's worth. It seems that Kerry didn't want to come right out and say that DeMint is violating the Logan Act, so he blocked DeMint on the basis of "you're not doing your job on this committee so no vacation money for you."

Levin helped him out? Anyone watch Rachel Maddow last night?
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. This is Rachel Maddow being cynical
Edited on Fri Oct-02-09 08:11 PM by karynnj
The fact is that going on the fact finding trip does not violate the Logan Act. For Kerry to say that would be wrong unless he could point to solid facts of things that DeMint had actually done things that violated the act. (Now, I interpret that as implying that Kerry used the other issue out of convenience. (Ask yourself if he would have denied Menendez the approval for a fact finding trip back when he had holds on appointees because he was angry about the Cuba policy.)

The fact is that no one other than Kerry did anything - from what I've read. I do hope Kerry had a staffer send his office a clear statement of what was not legal - esp as one of the Congressmen with him told Illinois papers that he intended to offer them a "compromise". Not only was it 100% what the coup wants, but that has to be negotiating.

All Kerry has the power to do was to refuse to fund the trip or approve military aircraft.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. As I understand DeMint's position in the SFR committee, this isn't even his territory.
I get the impression he is doing this for other interested parties.
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fedupinBushcountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Exactly
and that was what Steve Clemons was saying on Rachel's show last night, in fact Clemons mentioned DeMint blocking 2 appointees of Obama's and that this was the way JK went after him.Here is the link to the video http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#33131324
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-03-09 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Thanks so much for that link, Fedup!!!
I thought it was a really good segment, but a bit over the top about treason and so forth. Clemons did mention something else quite interesting: he made a slight error saying Armed Services Committee, but he said that when Kerry blocked the trip Lugar did not defend DeMint. Heh.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-03-09 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I was wondering about Lugar and it seems very significant
that Lugar did not defend Demint as you would expect that Demint likely did go to him to protest Kerry's action.
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fedupinBushcountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-03-09 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. IMO
Lugar respects JK more then a lot of people think. When I went to the reception for JK's swearing in last January, Lugar was the only Republican there to congratulate JK.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-03-09 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. That's nice to hear
Lugar was very kind the first committee hearing that Kerry attended after losing the Presidency. He spoke of how Kerry represented the SFRC well in the foreign policy debate and other nice things.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. That is nice to hear.
As for DeMint, I hope some bad karma comes his way. He really appears to be an arrogant PPS.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
26. Interesting NYT article on the lobbyists that the RW coup hired in DC - ties to McCain and Clinton

In the months since soldiers ousted the Honduran president, Manuel Zelaya, the de facto government and its supporters have resisted demands from the United States that he be restored to power. Arguing that the left-leaning Mr. Zelaya posed a threat to their country’s fragile democracy by trying to extend his time in office illegally, they have made their case in Washington in the customary way: by starting a high-profile lobbying campaign.

The campaign has had the effect of forcing the administration to send mixed signals about its position to the de facto government, which reads them as signs of encouragement. It also has delayed two key State Department appointments in the region.

Costing at least $400,000 so far, according to lobbying registration records, the campaign has involved law firms and public relations agencies with close ties to Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and Senator John McCain, a leading Republican voice on foreign affairs.

It has also drawn support from several former high-ranking officials who were responsible for setting United States policy in Central America in the 1980s and ’90s, when the region was struggling to break with the military dictatorships and guerrilla insurgencies that defined the cold war. Two decades later, those former officials — including Otto Reich, Roger Noriega and Daniel W. Fisk — view Honduras as the principal battleground in a proxy fight with Cuba and Venezuela, which they characterize as threats to stability in the region in language similar to that once used to describe the designs of the Soviet Union.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/08/world/americas/08honduras.html?_r=1&hp

They suggest this explains the somewhat "muddled" US position. It is fascinating seeing the names from the 1980s Central American policy. (Remember that in the 1980s, the majority in the US favored the right wing here - they even were supported by many prominent Democrats, including the Clintons and Gore.) Obama, not supporting the coup is a break from our decades old policy. One of the few politicians to publicly and consistently support Obama in rejecting the coup was the Senator chairing the SFRC.

If the Clintons, as well as people allied to them, lean towards the coup, Obama appointing HRC as Secretary of State might well have acted to silence both Clintons in opposing his policy - HRC has had to support it.

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