Kossaks turn on John Kerry. Re: climate change bill

[beachmom]

Idiots.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/12/803607/-Too-Busy-to-Save-the-World

No way did John Kerry want it delayed. It's the REST of the Senators who are the problem.

But oh, they all love Russ Feingold and Al Franken who are completely unproductive on the climate bill.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8752697

[beachmom]

1. Oh, for God's sakes. I didn't realize that Daily Kos & the rest of the Kool Kids are "boycotting"

the DNC, OFA, etc.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/11/13/804109/-Either-Explain-the-Boycott-Better...Or-Call-It-Off

Well, here is my decision: I will no longer read any of these sites. I don't read AmericaBlog, FDL, Open Left, etc. anyway. Now I will no longer read DailyKos. Removing bookmark now.

They turn on the author of the bill and now they boycott our President's grassroots organization. They have officially jumped the shark.

[karynnj]

2. I think with Miller, it is like I suspect it is like many from 2004

Miller became incredibly involved and wrote brilliant posts and was excited when unexpectedly, Kerry was able to pull Graham in and to pull in military and business support. It is odd that the mainstream media, which has always been dismissive of Kerry - even though he is at least 100 times more principled than favorites of theirs like Bill Clinton, actually got how difficult this was and how significant. They still did not diminish the difficulty of getting a bill out, but they did credit Kerry for getting it from DOA to quite possible.

Now, why do I say like 2004. I have suspected, especially after seeing some 2004 threads here, that part of their problem was that Kerry actually made many believe in those last two months that he could beat Bush. They listened to him, sensed that he was telling them the truth and made them believe ---- then didn't win. Now, the likelihood is had Dean, Gephardt, Edwards gotten the nomination, they would have sputtered out and the loss would have hurt less because, like in 1984, it was totally expected. All had things that made them easier targets than Kerry and contrary to the Kos crowd, none were remotely as tough as Kerry. It is interesting that many turned their bitter disappointment against JK even though he did everything he could, while many of us wandered in here disappointed by both our hurt over 2004 and over the hatred shown by the left.

But, Kerry has to project a positive engaging message and work to convince other Senators. He really needs to deal with that coal crowd. Kerry spoke of dealing with the "losers" in the bill - so there may be something there to help the people of the coal states. The coal companies have to lose. Kerry can throw in money for clean coal research - even though in one hearing he was skeptical that it could work, though he added, if it did, it would be a game changer. It would seem that expanding LiHEAP could deal with major increases in heating costs.

The real question with the coal Senators is do they really believe the science. If not, the question is how can they be convinced. Should Kerry encourage huge numbers of prestigious scientists from Universities in their states (or MA) to call them. If they believe in the science, do they not understand the concept of what cap and trade is trying to do? If not, should Kerry get economists to explain it to them? If they understand both, what does it say of their values?

Like you, I am amazed that the same people ready to blast Kerry on any rumor that he might possibly have thought of doing something they dislike, say of Franken, with his short record, he has to have a good reason - for something where there is no good reason.

As to Daily Kos, I think I will stay - and act as if I have Asperger's syndrome (though I don't) and don't understand that they are not listening because I think having someone there to dissent is worthwhile. Also, I've tended to just cut and paste stuff I already wrote.

[beachmom]

3. Thanks, excellent post.

Well, I think I will take a "pause" :). (ah, that is the word Markos used in no longer donating to Dem committees) I just think that is best, as I don't want to say anything I will regret later. Plus I am still following some of them on Twitter, so I will know what is up.

Thing is I like RLMiller, and that is why this is more upsetting than usual. And in another thread A Siegal said that Kerry had undermined Boxer by his "framework" proposal. I seriously doubt that is the case, and think that Boxer is on board for anything that will work.

[karynnj]

6. I like RLMiller as well

I think the question to Siegel is how does one undermine something that it is already, for all intents and purposes dead. As you say, Boxer likely is on board with what Kerry has done - in fact, even in the first discussion of parallel paths, it was mentioned that after she got the measure out of committee, she would join him in the outreach to Senators not on the committee. I still remember their wonderful coordination in countering one of Inhofe's Senate floor harangues - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=273&topic_id=157980

I did notice that both Sigel and Miller recommended my post on Miller's diary that blamed Kerry, where I wrote

Kerry does not set the time schedule, Reid does (10+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
askew, RunawayRose, A Siegel, Indie Liberal, B Amer, beach babe in fl, Populista, RadioGirl, mieprowan, RLMiller

In September, Reid was saying that climate change would not be done this year. Then Kerry seemed to have moved things forward with the op-ed he and Graham had.

The real problem seems to me to be that Baucus wasted a huge amount of time, accomplishing nothing with his gang of six, on the the healthcare bill. As that slips, the remaining time has disappeared.

The Climate bill needs to past 3 hostile committees, headed by Baucus, Lincoln, and Rockefeller. Then be merged.

Reid likely sees the financial reform bill as a less controversial bill that will pass - that I think only had to go through Dodd's committee.

This really stinks, but the reality of the difficulty may be why Kerry simultaneously had a plan B, the work with Graham and Lieberman to find a plan that can get 60 votes.

Kerry's passion, and knowledge and skill was abundantly evident in the unbalanced Finance committee hearings where he very capably countered both denier witnesses.

(here is a link to his exchange with Green - http://climateprogress.org/2009/11/10/kenneth-green-american-enterprise-institute-aei )

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2009/11/11/204831/21/36#c36

Now, they may have just reccomended it for the link I took from your DU post, but it might be they at least thought it wasn't completely wrong. The odd thing is the amount of power they think Kerry has.

[ProSense]

5. Ignorant crap gone totally wrong

Evidently, OFA is going to target Republicans on health care, and there is a front-page diary that is basically agreeing and criticizing OFA's plan in one breathe:

Heh. I'm sure that'll work. Republicans will be lining up to vote for healthcare reform. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for direct democracy. Every member of Congress should be hearing from her or his constituents on every issue, and particularly on one as critical as this.

The comments are brutal.

[karynnj]

7. Yep - but the same people see nothing wrong with targeting Democrats

not by ads making a strong case for the bill and pushing people to call them in favor of the bill, but by ads questioning their integrity and handing future opponents a situation where people "heard" that he was corrupt.

[wisteria]

4. Their small minds don't allow for compromise and actually getting things accomplished.

There are as bad as the purists from the right. Nothing gets accomplished if each side thinks they are the only ones who are right and when they are unwilling to see other sides of an issue. Frankly, I don't care what they think.