Being on Facebook is like running for President. No privacy.

[beachmom]

A little OT here, but what does everyone think about Facebook? I never have joined it, and when those pictures of Kerry with those college girls ended up on tmz.com because Facebook sold the pics to them, I decided to continue to resist. I remain under pressure from friends to join. Sometimes I think ... maybe. Then I read a story like this:

http://www.ajc.com/news/facebook-can-mean-face-202238.html

Facebook can mean face time with school principals
By Gracie Bonds Staples


The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Seventh-grade teacher Ruth Keenan has a Facebook page. So does Jennifer McGovern, who teaches kindergarten. And so do the school districts they work for.

Ashley Payne, a teacher at Apalachee High School in Winder, said she was forced to resign after photos and a comment posted on her Facebook page were forwarded to the Barrow superintendent. School officials acknowledge discussing consequences with Payne, but deny asking her to resign.

The photos in question showed Payne in pubs and beer gardens while on summer vacation. In a comment on her Facebook page, Payne announced was headed out to play a game called "Crazy Bitch Bingo."

For young teachers like Payne for whom technology is second nature, what may seem like innocent fun is leading them into a world of trouble.

Now go here and see the "scandalous" photo"

http://thelaughingstork.com/2009/11/teacher-fired-for-facebook-photos-showing-alcohol-good-thing-i-never-pursued-a-career-in-education/

She's holding a beer at a beer garden. Here is the money quote from the AJC, which should send a chill down everyone's neck:

The bottom line, said Tim Callahan, spokesman for the Professional Association of Georgia Educators, is teachers have to be careful.

Be more careful. Uh huh. Like a presidential candidate. Everything you type, every photo posted can be used against you ... forever. And we are not just talking teachers. This means anyone seeking a job or wishing to keep their job.

I had held out hope that with social media and other on line websites becoming so ubiquitous, that with everyone in the same boat, this would eventually be ignored by employers. I was wrong. It's going to get worse. It's even risky to blog anonymously as I have read of countless firings when people have been outed (Mudflats up in Alaska is the latest who was fired from her job, after a GOP state legislator outed her).

The above example is an outright violation of privacy rights, first amendment rights, and labor rights. The teacher is now suing the school, but even if she wins, look at all the trouble she is now going through, and the legal fees she will have to pay!! Her life is ruined.

I will stay off Facebook, but the truth is, the only way to be truly "safe" is to never type anything anywhere. It is patently unfair. Employers can do basically whatever they want and there is nothing the people can do about it. How about a law to protect employees? Because I am sick and tired of hearing about people being fired for what they write on line. Short of pornography or violence, most of it has no bearing whatsoever on their ability to do a job.

Edit: to be clear, the teacher had private settings ON. So contrary to whatever is being said on Facebook or articles about Facebook, there is no such thing as privacy on line. None. Zero.

[YvonneCa]

1. Several thoughts...

...on this:

1. I agree there is NO privacy online guarantee. That's why I hesitate to post pictures.

2. As a teacher, the privacy issue is important. I've hesitated joining Facebook (under some pressure here, too :) ) because I believe eventually students would find me. I want to keep that barrier.

3. The teacher in trouble, IMHO, did nothing wrong. She DID use poor judgement because she either thought no one would see the pictures or thought they wouldn't be an issue. She was wrong on both counts. She was also naive, because in these tough economic times, school districts are MAKING UP reasons to cut people...so why would she help them?

[beachmom]

3. The problem is we all make mistakes. That is the issue.

Basically, a person will have their Facebook account until their death. What are the chances of them never making a bad judgment? Asking people to be perfect is asking too much. The teacher was only 24 years old. On the other hand, a picture of yourself in a beer garden is not scandalous. The idea that having a drink is now a sin is nuts. Drinking too much and being intoxicated would be embarrassing. But she looks perfectly sober and pretty in the picture. Frankly, I find that parent who complained to probably be a fundie Christian. Only such a nut would be offended by that picture. As to the B word, that is more problematic, although that is the name of the game apparently.

I just think these schools (and parents) should be asked whether they are perfect 100% of the time. If not, then how dare they ask someone to resign who did nothing wrong in their private life, but probably revealed too much on Facebook. Definitely NOT grounds for firing.

[YvonneCa]

10. The education environment is toxic right...

...now. Teachers are under attack. I know that is not a popular thing to say, but it's true. I believe in empowering parents...and students for that matter...but in some places that empowerment is being used as a political tool for change in education.

[beachmom]

12. Well, it's been toxic for a long time. Basically, you have four

parties -- school administration, parents, teachers, and the students -- and a lot of emotion. I remember my Mom having to fight the school on a variety of issues and that was the '70s and '80s. I always give teachers the benefit of the doubt until given a mountain of evidence that there is a problem. I think conservatives are bullies who actually always get their way in Georgia. When I complained to my school about Obama's speech being censored, I was rebuffed. But this parent complaining that a teacher had a beer in her hand on Facebook? She gets the teacher fired (or forced to resign). Something is definitely wrong here.

[YvonneCa]

15. Well, there are several possibilities...

...here that come to mind (and probably several more that don't :) ).

One is that politics is rampant in some districts. That could play a role in the situation you encountered (in fact, I'd wager that it was), and it might have even had a role in the Facebook teacher saga.

Another possibility is the economy. A LOT of states have cut education, in some form or another. In this environment, some district budget folks are looking for ways to cut...people, programs, facilities...whatever pops up. She 'popped up'.

There is definitely something wrong here...and there was definitely something wrong in my sitation, too. I wish that teacher luck. She will need it.

Edited to add: There are probably more than four parties in play...parents, teachers, students, administrators, school board members, union representation...and politicians in federal, state and local government. ;)

[sandnsea]

2. I think it's a cultural problem, not a Facebook problem

If its legal, it shouldn't be of concern to an employer. Maybe this will turn into a good thing eventually, and stop people from nosying into each other's lives. In most small towns you know better than to get too high on your horse because you know everybody knows your dirt the same as you know theirs. Sounds like one of these teacher's "friends" had it in for her and she didn't know it. No other reason for an approved friend to forward this stuff to an employer.

I'd recommend friending one's mother. You're much less likely to get into trouble that way. :)

[karynnj]

5. I just read your post - and laughed at the last line

I'd recommend friending one's mother. You're much less likely to get into trouble that way.

I just posted that my kids and their cousins did that - as well as their dads, aunts, uncles and grandparents!

[sandnsea]

7. That's the best part

I have my sister, cousins and cousin's kids, even a very distant relative in San Francisco that I need to do some genealogy work with. We're "related" from way back in 1760 or so. Still, it is kind of cool and fascinating in that he's a music director for a Catholic church. Almost all of my family line are still Catholic and apparently his too.

My problem is connecting DU names with real names. I have a couple of people "friended" that I'm not entirely sure who they are, lol. I don't do anything "interesting" so no fear I might post something scandalous so I don't worry about that.

[karynnj]

9. That is really cool

I have met many of the DU people in person, but there were some that I wasn't completely sure of that link. (I had the same problem with a few obviously DU people who I had a large number of friends in common with - you, I knew because you had posted grandkid pictures here.) Like you, I don't do anything potentially scandalous.

[karynnj]

4. I am on facebook and on twitter

I had the same fears of saying things on line. Back in the late 1980s or early 1990s, I did read and very occasionally post on the usenet groups (the precursor to the internet). I had three very young kids, so I read the parenting group and sometimes found it useful, but was really amazed that people would put their whole lives there. I couldn't and wouldn't do that, but I occasionally posted. I did in a travel group solicit hints on what was acceptable behavior for kids before a trip to France and Spain. (very useful - one suggested in Paris that the first parent to wake take the first kid who woke out to get pastry, bread, fruit, milk and coffee for a quick painless breakfast - and suggested taking a softsided cooler and picking up bread, cheese, jams, fruit etc for a picnic lunch at noon and mentioned there were parks everywhere - with glace de chocolat (chocolate ice cream - and yeah we have some very messy pictures before wipes were used for clean up.) When I came here, I was very cautious of saying anything about my kids, because I thought it would invade their privacy. (At one point it backfired as two were angry that I did not write that I had gay daughters.)

I joined facebook because my kids and all their cousins are on it and they asked our generation and my parents to join. That is kind of cool as I am from a family of 9 kids and the cousins know each other from annual reunions. This lets us see a little bit of what they are up to. I know that some filter what we can see, but it still is an easy way to share photos (all pg) and bits of information. That the kids include us in what is public may function well for them as that that has to create at least a bit of a filter. (ie "Would I want my mom to see this".)

At nearly the same time, many JK people coincidentally were on Facebook. It was interesting to see pages from those I feel I know to some degree. I have also been friended by some neighbors and personal friends, though most people I know are not on facebook. I have also friended of been friended by a couple of high school friends - though there was no real contact made - and I have seen these people only at a 20th reunion - and I graduated 40 years ago. (writing that makes me realize that I really am OOOLLLDDD.)

The strangest thing is the collision of your "worlds". I think I am the same person here, in town, in synogogue, and with my family, but in reality, that is sometimes not 100% true. Without being dishonest, things said freely in one sphere, are down peddled elsewhere. I was freaked out when 2 people I know (and like) from synagogue showed up as "following me" on twitter, where I have yet to utter a single tweet. It was my political and online world connecting with a community, where I, like others, express political views, but that is a small part of things.

These collisions elsewhere can be interesting. A young nephew seems to have a very easy witty relationship of my back and forth comments with a friend of one of my daughter - both guys have an interest in designing computer games and are apparently good at it - my nephew is a senior in college, my daughter's friend is in his early 20s. For them and others, facebook facilitates getting advice from a friend of a friend.

For my kids' generation, these networks offer something pretty cool. My daughters are in contact with many people who they went to high school with or in the case of my college graduate, her college friends. For people like me, who left the state I went to hs and college in, this could have bridged the distance. It might also be that as interests and lives changed, those contacts would have disappeared because there was not enough to sustain them - or it could have acted as a life line to keep those whwre there was still enough in common.

So, I think it is a powerful tool - and it can be dangerous - as in the article you linked to.

[beachmom]

6. "Collision of worlds" does not work for me.

I made the mistake of letting friends know about meeting JK and I was made fun of in a cruel way. I never want that to happen again, which is why I have erected a Great Wall between my political life and my personal life. The Wall is basically that my personal life stays off line. That is the only way I know how to make that work. I live in a red state, and in order for me to survive here, I largely keep my political views to myself. But if my on line world is "opened up" my "secret" is out, and I will definitely have a tougher time here.

So my situation is different. And of course, I still have working years left in my life. Liberal politics is looked down upon and especially in this red state.

I am anonymous on Twitter and rarely tweet.

[karynnj]

8. I could understand that completely

Although I am in a much bluer world, I have told kept the fact that I blog pretty low key - in spite of having far fewer reasons to fear it being open. On twitter, I didn't realize that the line with my name was public, but it is.

[beachmom]

11. Yeah, I saw that, too. So I made my first name "Beach" and my last name "Mom". lol.

Maybe you could open up a new account that is political/anonymous?

[karynnj]

13. Cool - way smarter than I was

I might do that. I have to think of how disturbed I really should be that it is public - I don't have the downsides you do. The alternative is to be more open about it as it is something I shouldn't care if people know. In addition, I don't think there is anything in who I follow that will embarrass me if someone asks.

[wisteria]

14. I am staying away and I tell my girls to be very careful what they publish there.

I am going to school and in between positions, so I do not want anything to hurt my chances for a new job. And, I just think it is awful what was done to that teacher. Frankly, I don't think it was any of the school boards business what she did on her free time. She was not doing this on their dime, but her own.They may have allowed the vacation, but she earned it. This is getting out of hand, I think Congress should look into what can be done about this matter of employers peering into employees private lives.