O/T but curious to hear your thoughts-- Carville: Obama Should 'Panic'

[ObamaKerryDem]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/63573.html

What do you all make of this? For the record, I personally don't have much trust in Carville. He has never really been an Obama enthusiast-I think it's fair to say he's one of the Democrats who tends to put the Clintons ahead of everyone else in the party, maybe even the party itself (nothing against the Clintons and no offense to anyone here who may not see it that way), but he seems to be like a 'PUMA' or at least did in '08. I just get the distinct impression from that, and many things he's said publicly since, that he doesn't care a whole lot for the President-he just likes Republicans less..plus that wife of his...whole other discussion right there! LOL.. :thumbsdown: And wasn't he not so nice to JK as well?

I know there are a lot of things to be worked on when it comes to this White House and the campaign, but it just always seems like Carville and folks like him take every single opportunity they can to get a jab in. Maybe there is good, constructive criticism to be found in this, but that's my initial reaction.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[ObamaKerryDem]

1. I do whole heartedly agree with Carville on this point, though..

“As I watch the Republican debates, I realize that we are on the brink of a crazy person running our nation,” he wrote. “I sit in front of the television and shudder at the thought of one of these creationism-loving, global-warming-denying, immigration-bashing, Social-Security-cutting, clean-air-hating, mortality-fascinated, Wall-Street-protecting Republicans running my country.”

Though I would disagree with us being 'on the brink'. I still believe wholeheartedly that this is the President's election to lose..

[karynnj]

2. I think it is never good to take an election for granted

BUt, it is not good for Carville to amplify the republican and media negative stories. The problem is that there are people who want to be with the winner. This leads to momentum in primaries. I suspect that Carville, a known Democrat (though I think he is just a Clintonian), speaking of Democratic concern is not helpful.

Just remember what a loser he was in 2008 and how he and Begala likely had as much as anyone to do with the whole - Kerry is just ABB. Until then, I never heard this used in a general election contest. Far fewer people had Bill Clinton as their first choice in 1992, than had Kerry in 2004 - yet NO ONE spoke of being an ABB.

[ObamaKerryDem]

4. So true!

I really, really suspect and strongly lean towards believing that folks like Carville may have secretly wanted JK to lose to make way for Hillary in '08. It's almost like he and others like him did whatever they possibly could, at nearly every given opportunity, to undermine JK and his campaign. Which was really, really selfish of them, I think because no matter how much they love the Clintons and no matter how much or how badly they wanted them back in the WH, they helped subject the country in this way to another term of Bush and therefore to the destruction that followed...I never quite regained my respect for Carville and those like him after learning more about that after the fact. I am also disappointed to hear that Begala was evidentally part of that too! I've always enjoyed his commentary, but if he was in on that...sorry, no thanks!

:thumbsdown:

I think that even if Carville is privately feeling this way about Obama and his WH, he should've, for the good of the party--if he really is about advancing that--kept it to himself. Not that I am trying to quiet all dissent within the party, absolutely not, but there is a time and place I feel, especially for someone with the clout that Carville has and especially when it comes to the press, for the reasons you pointed out. I think it shows what his agenda is and makes me even more distrustful of Carville than before..

[karynnj]

6. I can't say I disagree with anything you say

There is a huge difference between constructive criticism - like, Obama should back a program like ..., doing ... AND Obama is failing - we need to panic. This from a man whose claim to fame is running the "war room" for a Democratic nominee running against a President well below 40 in approval ratings - with a third party candidate bashing the President daily. I thought the meme on that was that they never panicked.

I think Begala is nicer, but I sometimes wonder if that is just that he has a better veneer - a smoother, less caustic interface with others. In his case, he NEVER lets a time past where he can point out that Bill Clinton did something better than Obama. This reminds me of the constant negative comparisons of Kerry and Clinton when Kerry was running and it was more important to support Kerry. (They are different and Clinton was charming, but he did not have Kerry's integrity, decency, sense of honor or loyalty to others - loyalty with Clinton goes mostly one way - to him. My guess is Teresa and Kerry's staff appreciate the differences.)

But, there were people between 2004 and 2008, who ignoring that the Clintons could return, argued that it was better for the Democrats to lose - and losing narrowly as was the case was the best. In 2004, people did not yet appreciate how bad the wars were going to be and anyone elected in 2004 would have a Congress where both Houses were in Republican hands. Some argued that it was better to lose and gain control of the Congress in 2006 and 2008 and then win the Presidency. Some said this and then dreamed of President Hillary - others were less concerned with whom.

There were times I came close to seeing intellectually the point, but in my heart I couldn't accept that that was a better outcome. As President, Kerry would have controlled foreign policy and the course of the wars. The 4 years would have been extremely hard on him, he would clearly not have been able to pass his domestic agenda. He would have worked his heart out - and America would have been better for it - but not being able to see where we would end up under Bush, Americans would likely not have known it. I do think that he would have gained more respect and admiration for who he is as a person. Most people never really saw Kerry in 2004 and he and Teresa were smeared. I have heard an enormous amount of people who after working with Kerry or seeing him as he really is, have been more impressed than they ever expected to be. (Think Lindsey Graham ) Deval Patrick in his book, while not impressed with teh 2004 campaign, commented that people never got to know Kerry and he was a man of "uncommon decency". It is impossible to know what that path would have led us to - and no one in 2004 would have guessed how badly Bush would harm the country in the last term.

[ObamaKerryDem]

5. He WAS quite the sore loser in '08. I still remember how nasty he was..

..to Bill Richardson on Larry King, when Hillary was losing the primary. It got really, personally ugly. He acted like a little boy who was losing a video game. Not becoming in the slightest.

[Mass]

3. Carville is far from being my favorite Democrat.

His reputation is based on making waves, so PUMA or not, it is expected of him that he makes noise.