I think some people have gone slightly mad

[TayTay]

I havne't been around here all that long, but it seems to me that some people in some of the other discussion forums have gone slightly mad. (Grief? Sadness? Permanent indigestion of the soul? Don't know.)

I keep seeing these silly threads about how so-and-so is to the left of Kerry. This is plainly false and so easy to refute. Kerry's lifetime ADA, Americans for Democratic Action, voting record is 92, higher than Ted Kennedy's. http://www.adaction.org/lifetimesenmassachusetts.html

Did this unsupported Kerry bashing go on before the primaries and during the general election? Is it just the Deaniacs? How do the long-timers here deal with this? How on earth did the fundraising records get set with supporters like these?

Just some idle thoughts during the down weeks of the holidays.

[Forever Free]

1. I know what you mean

Apparently many of these folks were just holding their nose and voting for Kerry because he was ABB. Now with the election lost, their fury is now unleashed. I hate all the "Dean would never have conceded" or "Clark would have fought for every vote" threads. NEWS FLASH people, we had 56 MILLION people vote for John Kerry. We only lost by a ONE STATE difference. So save your bullshit for the Republicans. I'm sure they would enjoy it.

I swear, with Democrats like these, who needs Republicans? We're quite effective at destroying ourselves from within.

[angrydemocrat]

2. LOL

You said it! When dealing with these fools in the other forums and when they would start bullshit about ABB voters and how they were changing to the green party, I would write "LMAO With Voter Like You Who Needs Repukes" :puke: I pissed a many of them off but I didn't care I got tired of all their pissing and moaning all the time! Or another way that pissed them off was just to write "Whaaa Whaaaa" :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: Just little things like like that pisses them off more than if you fight with these fools.

[JI7]

3. i just ignore most of them now

yeah, the Kerry bashing went on during the primary and GE. i use to always feel the need to respond but not anymore. especially if it's the skull and bones crap and other stupid attacks.

there is too much to do to spend too much time responding to certain things.

[GRLMGC]

5. the Skull and Bones crap

is the most idiotic talking point I've ever fucking heard. I curse the day I ever heard of Skull and Bones!

[paulk]

4. is the dlc a trojan horse for the neocons?

I can't take it anymore...

And, yes, the Kerry bashing has gone on all along. This site should probably be renamed "Bash Democrats Underground".

Long timers deal with the nonsense by growing more and more sarcastic and /or angry until they cross some sort of arbitrary line and get tombstoned. Or they stop posting. Or they take a break and hang out in the lounge.

or they -



:beer:

[GRLMGC]

6. That DLC crap is ridiculous too

As if the fucking DLC is sooo powerful. People should look at other problems in the Democratic Party instead of just trying to find a scapegoat

[paulk]

12. what's sad

is that the DLC's policies are certainly open to criticism, or at the very least a discussion of strategy. But the threads that get started over in the political forums are so absurd that no discussion is possible. The only response to some of the outlandishness is laughter.

[CBHagman]

14. Thank you for the sanity!

It's been a brutal month or so on the other forums. There has been what is more or less a purge mind-set among some of the participants. Some of it can be chalked up to grief, anger and disbelief (after all, humans quite naturally fall apart when something horrible happens), but much of it makes me very suspicious.

As for Kerry not being liberal enough, please! What I've been dying to say is that Kerry is as liberal a candidate as we've had in the last couple of decades. And he was my choice from the start, no questions asked, though I liked some of the other candidates for their assorted virtues.

And for some reason the media and some of our DU participants want to read tens of millions of votes FOR Kerry as a rejection of the man and a death knell for the Democrats, for progressives, for the New Deal, blah, blah, blah. Horse manure. It's that old media trick of seeing everyone in black and white terms -- i.e., the silver medalist at the Olympics "lost" or the Buffalo Bills are a bad team because they went to the Super Bowl three times and didn't get the trophy, or Candy Crowley's idiotic claims that the public couldn't relate to John Kerry. Grrr.

Anyway, I come here to help keep my heart from sending up distress signals. Thanks for being here.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

7. What I find most laughable in the Kerry Bashing

is how those posters who were denigrating JK felt "betrayed" because he hadn't announced (presumably to them, preferably in a phone call to each of their homes) what he planned to do after the concession speech.

I got the impression they believed Kerry should have made public all his plans - if he had any - to challenge the election.

Are they that naive politically, or am I just Old?

[paulk]

13. naive politically

we live in a culture of instant gratification and a lot of people think our political process should provide the same.

[clydefrand]

33. Not just OLD! We are wiser. I really can't

believe that we who are older and wiser are the ones constantly hacking away at John Kerry. I find their ranting over the line. How can one be loyal before the election...believe in their candidate and as soon as he doesn't win the way they think he should or to concede the way he did, that he changed.

I believe he won and he needed to concede until he has proof of fraud. No point in screaming fraud until it can be proven.

I still believe in him and will continue to do so until he does something to make me not trust him! Then...well, I'll decide if and when that time ever comes. I don't think it will.

[ginnyinWI]

8. it's also "sour grapes"

since he isn't (currently) the president-elect, well then, he must not have been good anyway--or so they seem to need to tell themselves. And since they will never know whether Dean or anyone else could have won the election for sure, those unproven candidates are seen as "more qualified", even though, as I think, Kerry was the best candidate and got more votes than anyone else would have--but you can never prove it to these people, unless Kerry overturns the election. Then they will act like they have been behind him all the time!

Thanks for starting a new thread, by the way!

[seito]

10. My all time favorite has to be

Kerry made a pact with Rove to rig the Iowa Caucasus. If not for that, the mighty Dean would have taken the nomination and led us to a clean victory.

ROFLMAO

[sandnsea]

9. It's a variety

Mostly Deaniacs, a few Clarkies, and some true leftists. In the true sense of the word, leftist. They've always been after Kerry; Patriot Act, NCLB, voted for the war. If they leave out NCLB, they're a Kucinich supporter because he voted for that too. Although you can go back on the Deaniacs and get some of his quotes on the Patriot Act, then they'll drop that one. All I know is the Bushies aren't the only ones able to paint whatever picture of reality they want to see.

Inch-deep support that Kerry held together incredibly well, but maybe not enough to build a real campaign movement on. Democrats have to have a strong, cohesive, campaign movement to win. Seems to me.

[TayTay]

11. Thanks for responding!

I lurked at DU during October, then joined in Nov. I understand that losing an election hurts, particularly here in America because we have a 'winner take all' style. I understand feeling bitterness and that some people cannot stand to be hurt and won't show up for another election in which they risk this kind of pain. This has happened in every election I've ever seen. But the clearly insane posts just make you want to scratch your head in confusion.

Obviously, I like JK or I wouldn't be posting here. I think he did his best in this election and wanted to win. Kerry is an ambitious man (which is only a bad thing for people in public office, sigh! Business people who are ambitious are lauded for it. Pols gets hammered because, ah, I don't know.) I think he did what he could to win and lost because enough of the country didn't want to change leaders in a time of war. I disagree with that assessment, but it has been made, I have to readjust my focus and turn and fight again.

How do these conspiracy theorists get up in the morning? What do they focus on except demoralizing those who wish to fight with them. How useless and sad. Honestly, there are some lefties who are so error free and pure and so morally perfect that you wonder if they sleep with weights on at night, lest they be taken bodily up into heaven during their sleep. I hope that once Congress comes back and people see that it is possible to fight Bush's programs that they get it together, recognize a common enemy and get ready to fight. (Does this happen or are the Lefty Saints too pure to fight with the Democratic Dirt Dogs over policy?)

[CBHagman]

15. I like your quote.

"Honestly, there are some lefties who are so error free and pure and so morally perfect that you wonder if they sleep with weights on at night, lest they be taken bodily up into heaven during their sleep."

What a great quote! I'm snickering here at my desk.

The people you describe remind me of Ralph Nader -- more in love with their own purity than with getting anything done. But wasn't there a leader of the French Revolution who was so "pure" that it drove him to the most disgusting excesses?

[LittleClarkie]

16. I loved that quote too

I wonder if that does describe Ralph. Could he be so blind to his own hypocrisy that he could actually think that the Republicans and Smear vets who supported him did so because they liked his message. I was annoyed with him before the Smear vet money. Taking that money made him dirty, and I don't see him getting clean anytime soon.

Another thing about the purity people you described, TayTay. I don't think they know a ton about politics, nor do they care much for politicians. They're like first time office holders who come in with such energy to change the world, only to find out they have to play by the same rules as everyone else. There's a certain naivety there.

But why do I also sense a certain heartlessness. The poster who insisted that Edwards drop whatever he was doing wife-wise and go work on the fraud comes to mind. As if these people weren't human beings.

Then again, maybe "it's the internet, stupid." You always get a certain level of crassness and immaturity on the internets.

[TayTay]

17. I saw some of the LeftyPurists in NH

I had done some canvassing work and the second to last Sunday before the election we were told to go to a stadium in Nashua for a Red Sox/Kerry rally. (It was the weekend of the World Series.) Tom Werner had formally endorsed his friend and had brought music and stuff for a fun rally. Anyway, there was a guy in the parking lot before the rally who was arguing with the NH Dems/Kerry people about putting on a John Lynch for Gov button. (Locked in a close race with Rethug weasel Craig Benson and we won!) This guy was morally opposed to putting on a Lynch button until he had all of Lynch's positions explained to him. His argument was that Lynch might want something that he found objectionable. (Yup, he was a Masshole, and from Cambridge to boot. Long, long story or stories that I could relate forever. I love Cambridge, heck, my Dad was born there, but honestly, can't we invent some sort of vaccine for excessive liberal purity disease. It's so annoying.) I felt so bad for the sweet young thing who had to argue with the font of moral righteousness. I wonder if that is how the rest of the nation views all of us Mass people.

[sandnsea]

24. It's not just Mass

They're everwhere, I've met a few in Missoula Montana!

What's ridiculous is they get all in a twit over a single issue voter, but turn around and act the exact same way and can't see it. And while the Republican Party has their fringe vote, and is even legislating to that fringe more and more, they still manage to present themselves as a party of moderates. So they win. And our fringe can't see that either. *sigh*

[bush_is_wacko]

18. People are frustarated as hell

I think some people are just fickle. After all, we are American's and let's face it our attention spans are short because of our lifestyles. They can't seem to get beyond their particular pet project. I find some of their posts rather funny. But I must admit, I have been telling a few of them their temper tantrums remind me of when my kids were 2. There is no reasoning with a 2 year old. The best thing you can do is get up and walk away. As soon as they notice you're missing, they shut the hell up and start looking for you.

[saracat]

19. I guess I might be considered a "lefty purist" by some.

I supported JK because I thought he was the most presidential and the most liberal of the candidate field. I despise the DLC, they has assumed a much more influential role than they deserve, and I am one of the "heartless ones "that believe that a politician should put the country ahead of his family. If he doesn't, why would I want to vote for him? I am not casting a vote for family man or husband of the year. I am voting for President or VP! I do not believe in "going to the center", or "re framing the issues " to appeal to the moderates or the repugs. We don't need the respect or votes of the republicans.We need to create more Dems. We need to reach out to the 200 million who didn't vote.
I deviate from "lefty purist" in that I believe we have reached the point where the ends justify the means as far as elections go. I believe we were better off in the days of the Daly machine.I don't even care if we have to vote the dead. It got Kennedy elected! We used to be better at this than the repukes and we won! Ironically, we, the so called godless party ,got "religion, developed ethics , and now we get walloped, while the true thieves scream about morals.
I respect John Kerry because he didn't fold. He wouldn't throw Gay Rights overboard as requested by the DLC. He stood fast. I will lose respect for him if he truly softens his stance on abortion. I hope he doesn't. I believe, without being a conspiracy theorist, that it is possible JK won. There certainly is enough evidence of possible fraud to investigate. The unsupported Kerry bashing did go on during the primaries and I think in some ways it is worse now. I think most of it is from disappointed Kerry supporters who think he isn't doing anything (I think we don't know what he is doing!), and Deaniacs. They insist, with no proof whatsoever, that Dean would have won. They refuse to accept the fact Dean lost the primaries! I find it ironic that Dean , who was massacred, can be considered to have had the primary stolen, and Kerry, who ran an exceptionally close general election, is considered by these people to be a loser with no ability to contest this race! I find it particularly disgusting that some are quoting the SBVFT as valid! I support JK unabashedly and will not make any judgements on his actions until after the twentieth of January! I owe that much to the young officer who came home and protested the Vietnam War.

[LittleClarkie]

20. I'm one card short of a full deck...

I'm not quite the shilling. One wave short of a shipwreck. I'm not my usual top billing...

But my dear, how 'bout you?

[Withywindle]

21. It is CRAZY out there tonight....

Although, as psycho as the mood-swing threads are, I think I'm most unsettled by the call for a vigil in front of JK's house, with full directions posted.

I realize it's publicly available information, but it just tripped my ICK meter.

[GRLMGC]

22. the call for a vigil in front of JK's house, with full directions posted.

Yeah, that was kinda freaky.

[TayTay]

26. Oh don't worry

His house is in Boston. That means no one will actually be able to find it. There was a snowstorm so the streets have pretty much disappeared. And everybody is pretty much slacking off. I believe the man himself is in Idaho. And it's kinda cold. People will probably meet, half freeze to death trying to make a murky point, then go down the hill and pop into a local pub and warm up. Everybody wins.

And besides, unless you know exactly where you are going, you can't get there from here. And native Bostonians can't help you because we are incapable of giving proper directions. I once participated in a discussion wherein a stranger was seeking directions from a group of natives. It was an extremely frustrating experience since the stranger had to gaul to not know where everything used to be. "Do you know where that gas station used to be that closed in '88? No? Damn. Ahm, what about that house that burned down 6 years ago, you need to take a right at that house that was recently rebuilt. No I don't know any street names, I just know what used to be there." Sigh.

No one will ever actually reach JK's house, Im telling ya! Not to worry. Even if they do, the cops will shoo them away.

[angrydemocrat]

27. Whats Up?

Why are they trying to find his house anyway? I don't go over to the other forums much anymore. I stay in here with the Kerrycrats LOL. I got tired of listening to all the nonsense, whininng, screaming fools in the other forums. So it is rare I go in them. So when something like this comes up I have to ask what it is about. Because I'm not about to go over there and argue with the fools I got sick of that some time back. I got better things to do than sit and argue with them over their wild crazy crap and listen to their whining and screaming.

[GRLMGC]

28. Nice

but just the idea that someone would think of doing that is kinda messed up. I'm glad you gave me that info though :)

[TayTay]

29. Story in 12/29 Boston Globe on Vigil

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/kerry/articles/2004/12/29/group_holds_fast_to_kerry_cause_with_beacon_hill_vigil/

Okay, they found his house. Seems like a very peaceful gathering and it caught the attention of a Harvard Prof who liked the idea of protesting for better run elections.

And the Senator must be leaving this weekend or shortly thereafter for Iraq. So, that means that he definitely will not vote No on Jan 6.

[Pirate Smile]

31. I guess half a dozen people did the "vigil" outside Kerry's house.

Novak, a.k.a. Douchebag of Liberty, said they are like the Japanese soldiers on the islands in the Pacific that thought WWII was still going on thirty years after it ended.

I'm sorry to say I couldn't help but laugh at that joke.

[LittleClarkie]

32. What does that say about how many people actually believe in the fraud?

How small is the minority? The people here talk as if Sen. Kerry will lose all his support if he doesn't stand up and unconceed. But just how big is the group who expects this of him?

I do so bristle at people who talk as if they think they're speaking for the majority. What is that fallacy called -- (googling) ah yes: argumentum ad populum. Like a cat, they have to arch their backs to make themselves look bigger.

[GRLMGC]

34. Very true

I'll admit that, I myself, have been discouraged by those attitudes but then I remember that they're not the majority, they're just louder.

[Der Blaue Engel]

23. I think I'VE gone slightly mad

"upwards of 1/3 of a chance"
"1 in 3 chance"
"33% of Democratic senators"
"33% of Senate"
"33 senators"

WHAT THE.....??????

:wtf:

I give up. I'm going to bed. Or at least to the lounge. :silly: :crazy:

[LittleClarkie]

25. Maybe a third of a Senator?

But which third? We'll need the mouth section, I assume.

I'd better go to bed too.

[GRLMGC]

30. I'm out

I'm sick of this. I'll just hang out here and in the Lounge or something.

[GRLMGC]

35. Also

I've noticed that in addition to really angry leftists, there are also an awful lot of trolls. I can spot them pretty easily too. Has anyone else noticed this?

[New Earth]

36. yes

THEY ARE EVERYWHERE. There are so many of them here right now that I am almost afraid to alert on all of them b/c i don't want to annoy the mods or make them think i'm just too defensive, b/c I know I can be at times.

But yes, they are everywhere, they have infiltrated, but I'm sure we all know exactly who they are :hi:

[GRLMGC]

37. Seriously

They're obvious to me but not blatant enough to be banned. I don't alert that often because the poster may just be an asshole but I may start doing it more often.

Also, I noticed a troll who has a lot of posts. What kind of loser trolls for that long or at all for that matter? Shows what kinds of losers these freepers are.