anyone see this on Kerry's (not so great) grades at Yale ?

[JI7]

BOSTON -- Sen. John F. Kerry's academic performance at Yale University was virtually identical to President George W. Bush's academic record, despite repeated portrayals of Kerry as being more intellectual than his Republican rival, The Boston Globe reported Tuesday.

The Globe, which obtained Kerry's transcript from his U.S. Navy officer training school application after Kerry gave permission for its release, said Kerry had a cumulative grade average of 76 for his four years at Yale and received four Ds his freshman year.

In 1999, The New Yorker published a transcript showing Bush had a cumulative grade average of 77 his first three years at Yale, and a similar average under a non-numerical rating system his senior year.

Kerry, D-Mass., had previously declined to release the transcript, which was included in his Navy records. He had refused to waive privacy restrictions for the full file during the presidential campaign, but gave the Navy permission to release the documents last month, the newspaper reported.

His freshman year, Kerry had an average of 71. He earned a 61 in geology, a 63 and a 68 in two history courses, and a 69 in political science. His top scores of 79 and 77 were in political science and French, respectively. At the time, Yale considered grades between 70 and 79 a C and 60 and 69 a D.

"I always told my Dad that D stood for distinction," Kerry said in a written response to reporters' questions. He said he has previously acknowledged focusing more on learning to fly than studying. In his Navy application, Kerry said he had spent much of his college career in extracurricular activities, including the Yale Political Union, the Debating Association and the Skull and Bones Society.

His grades improved later, however, as he averaged an 81 his senior year and earned an 89 _ his highest grade _ in a political science class as a senior. He was also chosen to deliver the senior class oration, in which he questioned the wisdom of the Vietnam War.

According to The New Yorker article, Bush's highest grade at Yale was an 88 in anthropology, history and philosophy. He received one D in his four years, a 69 in astronomy, and like Kerry, improved his grades after his freshman year.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/connecticut/ny-bc-ct--kerry-grades0607jun06,0,4217445.story?coll=ny-region-apconnecticut

(if anyone is registered at the boston globe site can you please post the article which focuses on Kerry's navy records which was the purpose of releasing this in the first place. so far theya re the only ones who have an article on it but you have to be registered to access it)

[WildEyedLiberal]

1. Awww

That TOTALLY makes me feel better about my "distinctive" grades :P

[globalvillage]

48. A couple of mine

were F-ing distinctive!

[rox63]

2. I just heard this on the morning news

I have to wonder why this is making news? Ans why is the Boston press so determined to make Kerry look bad? :mad:

[Mass]

3. Here is the article - it has a little more perspective than Newsday

The amazing things is that somebody considers that important, but Kerry's picture is terrible.

I guess they want to make him pay the fact there is no revelations in the Navy records and therefore no story.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/06/07/yale_grades_portray_kerry_as_a_lackluster_student/

Yale grades portray Kerry as a lackluster student
His 4-year average on par with Bush's

By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff | June 7, 2005

WASHINGTON -- During last year's presidential campaign, John F. Kerry was the candidate often portrayed as intellectual and complex, while George W. Bush was the populist who mangled his sentences.


In his Navy application, Kerry made clear that he spent much of his college time on extracurricular activities, including the Yale Political Union, the Debating Association, soccer, hockey, fencing, and membership in the elite Skull and Bones Society. Asked to describe nonschool training that qualified him for the Navy, Kerry wrote: ''A great deal of sailing -- ocean and otherwise, including some navigation. Scuba diving. Rifle. Beginning of life saving." He said his special interests were ''filming," writing, and politics, noting that the latter subject occupied 15 hours per week.

Gaddis Smith, a retired Yale history professor who taught both Kerry and Bush, said in a telephone interview that he vividly remembers Kerry as a student during the 1964-1965 school year, when Kerry would have been a junior. However, Smith said he doesn't have a specific memory about Bush.

Based on what Smith recalls teaching that year, Kerry scored a 71 and 79 in two of Smith's courses. When Smith was told those scores, he responded: ''Uh, oh. I thought he was good student. Those aren't very good grades." To put the grades in perspective, Smith said that he had a well-earned reputation for being tough, and noted that such grades would probably be about 10 points higher in a similar class today because of the impact of what he called ''grade inflation."

Bush went to Yale from 1964 to 1968; his highest grades were 88s in anthropology, history, and philosophy, according to The New Yorker article. He received one D in his four years, a 69 in astronomy. Bush has said he was a C student.

[Mass]

4. Kerry releases his military repotys

Nothing new as the BG reports - So of course, BG questions why he did not release them earlier.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/06/07/kerry_allows_navy_release_of_military_medical_records/

Kerry allows Navy release of military, medical records
Show numerous commendations

By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff | June 7, 2005

WASHINGTON -- Senator John F. Kerry, ending at least two years of refusal, has waived privacy restrictions and authorized the release of his full military and medical records.

The records, which the Navy Personnel Command provided to the Globe, are mostly a duplication of what Kerry released during his 2004 campaign for president, including numerous commendations from commanding officers who later criticized Kerry's Vietnam service.

The lack of any substantive new material about Kerry's military career in the documents raises the question of why Kerry refused for so long to waive privacy restrictions. An earlier release of the full record might have helped his campaign because it contains a number of reports lauding his service. Indeed, one of the first actions of the group that came to be known as Swift Boat Veterans for Truth was to call on Kerry to sign a privacy waiver and release all of his military and medical records.

But Kerry refused, even though it turned out that the records included commendations from some of the same veterans who were criticizing him.


On May 20, Kerry signed a document called Standard Form 180, authorizing the Navy to send an ''undeleted" copy of his ''complete military service record and medical record" to the Globe. Asked why he delayed signing the form for so long, Kerry said in a written response: ''The call for me to sign a 180 form came from the same partisan operatives who were lying about my record on a daily basis on the Web and in the right-wing media. Even though the media was discrediting them, they continued to lie. I felt strongly that we shouldn't kowtow to them and their attempts to drag their lies out."

Many of the records contain praise for Kerry's service. For example, the documents quote Kerry's former commanding officers as saying he is ''one of the finest young officers with whom I have served;" is ''the acknowledged leader of his peer group;" and is ''highly recommended for promotion."

<snip>

[karynnj]

5. Then they answer their own question, by highlighting his grades

<Nothing new as the BG reports - So of course, BG questions why he did not release them earlier.>

Kerry releases all his records - what is the main story? - that he really was a war hero and deserved all his medals? - no the story concentrates more on his mediocre grades. Even more annoying is that they still repeat the comment that his first purple heart was for a scratch and that O'Neil isn't changing his opinion. Also, they add the ugliest picture I have ever seen of Kerry.

I don't think the grades would have hurt him - but it would clearly have been distracting. He clearly didn't focus an his schoolwork, but he had already said that in the Tour of Duty book where he avoided the question of grades and he has shown his intelligence over the last 40 years.

So, after reading it, I still think he is very intelligent, a war hero, and handsome. The RW will think he's dumb, ugly and still hiding something about VN.

[rox63]

6. Maybe he didn't want the academic records out there

Big John is a perfectionist. Perhaps he didn't want the Yale grades released because he wasn't proud of them, and because he thought they might cause some damage.

[TayTay]

8. I think it's because it's a non-story

Who really cares? It was 40 years ago. I think he accepted it and moved on. Jayzus, we're not talking about Leo the Town Drunk over here. The guy with the less than sterling undergrad career went on to distinguish himself in the military, in the DA's office, in state government and, finally, as a respected member of the United States Senate and a nominee of the Democratic Party for the Presidency. Maybe it's me, but I think he got over it and managed to eek out some small measure of redemption.

Not picking on you Rox, it's just, who friggin cares? Well, the Glob could have put a better pic in, some of those undergrad pics are not flattering.

[rox63]

9. No offense taken

I know it's a non-story. I'm suprised it's gotten as much press as it has.

On with the business of the U.S. Senate, including hammering BushCo on the DSM.

[whometense]

10. Took the words out of my mouth.

I wouldn't shoot the messenger, but good lord. The undergraduate grades of both men ceased to be relevant once they used them to get into grad school.

I'd love to engage in debate any moron who wants to argue that the intellectual dexterity and curiosity of Kerry is equal to that of the *. And that's all that counts.

[ginnyinWI]

22. and speaking of debates

Who was it who won all three of them, hands down, again? :)

[whometense]

25. Touche.

:-)

[TayTay]

7. The Globe and Kerry (again)

Everybody here owns a copy of the Boston Globe bio of Kerry from last year. The best part of this book is the intro, which details quite well the pissing contest between both sides over the last few years. (Why? Who the hell knows. Oil and water and leave it at that.)

Anyway, in the intro there is a longish section on how the Glob requested, yet again, more info from the Senator's office in 2002-3 in order to complete their newspaper bio of him. The Senator's office blew up and said they had released enough info and could the Glob get on with it as everyone knew it was going to be a slime piece anyway. (Relations between the two sides have never been good. That's just the way it is.) Jim Jordan, in charge of Kerry's Pres. run at the time, fired off a letter to the Glob that said that (paraphrased from memory) the Glob never took anything for granted from Kerry and always suspected him of playing loose with the facts and of having ulterior motives. Jordan complained that nothing was ever accepted at face value.

Kerry played fair and truthfully with the Glob over his military records. The Glob did not accept it at face value. Now they are ragging on Kerry because there was nothing wrong in his military records and he had several recommendations and commendations in them that could have been used in his defense last year. Well, duh! The Globbies were told this, but they don't take anything at face value. (Read their friggin book, it's their words, ferchrissakes.) They acted as though they were being fed a line and were waiting for some awful revelation to rear it's ugly head. They were NOT being played, but they could not accept it. Now, the fact that they were NOT being played is pissing them off. (I friggin give up on this grudge match. Whatever.)

The grades story is a non-story. Who friggin cares?

[whometense]

11. Slightly OT, but relevant.

Anyone here ever hear of the work Howard Gardner has done on multiple intelligences? I'd argue this story is a case in point.

When my daughter was in preschool they were engaged in testing some of Gardner's theories on the kids. It was fascinating. They had invented all kinds of games and activities that required different applications of intelligence - mathematical, social, physical, mechanical, verbal, musical, etc.

All this is to say that some people test well. Some people get straight A's but can't open a bank account for themselves. I know of a piano prodigy who could never manage to learn to tie his own shoes. I think you see where I'm going here. Smart is as smart does. And on that scale I think we can all agree that * may possible have some political intelligence. If they had a category for bullying he'd be off the chart. But Kerry is a man who thinks for himself. That may not always translate into the highest grades, but I'll take it in a president anytime.

[TayTay]

12. I think he's ADHD

He exhibits all the symptoms. Extremely high intelligence and creativity, but has a problem focusing on what is needed at the time. My son is ADHD, so I'm obviously projecting what I want to see, but still. A lot of these folks find the perfect job to be something with endless stimulous, variety and the ability to be in constant motion. Also, there is that hyper, nearly scary ability to over-focus on something when the need arises. I see it. I also think he has the perfect job for it.

[whometense]

13. I can see that.

Makes a great case for the condition, doesn't it??

[karynnj]

14. Think you may be right

In Tour of Duty, on page 47 when talking about college, Kerry says, "I was a capable student, but not a very dedicated one." He also says while talking about his favorite teacher, "Gaddis was a great, great lecturer," Kerry attested. "The Lectures were all energy and knowledge. I confess that I was .... I don't know, maybe I suffered from attention-deficit disorder... never really paying full attention in (any other) class. I just had so many extracurricular things going on."

[TayTay]

15. Well, maybe

but that sort of stuff sits an eyelash away from psycho-babble, so that's as far as it goes with me. All that matters is that he is a wicked good Senator.

[Mass]

16. Of course, kos uses that to slam Kerry again, on a front page story \nt

[TayTay]

18. Did you see the pie fight at DKos over the weekend

Me thinks that Kos should attend to his own house and not go troubling others. He had a shitload of good people (who do, after all, make that blog) depart because of his stubbornness and inability to self-detect an error.

I laughed and laughed.

[Mass]

19. I was not home this week-end and missed it.

But I read follow-up posts here and could not figure out what it was about.

[whometense]

20. Totally missed it.

I'm one of those people who hardly ever goes over there anymore. Except when directed, like just now ;-).

What was the pie fight about? What did that idiot say this time? No wonder he likes Dean so much, come to think of it. Neither one of them is capable of thinking before he shoots his mouth off.

[Dr Ron]

17. More on miliary records at LUTD

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=1028

[ginnyinWI]

21. interesting comments from each of you

My take on this:

First, grade inflation is a definite reality. It is much, much easier to get A's and B's these days. Don't know why, but it just is. I think it has to do with university politics--competition with other universities.

Second, it's YALE for crying out loud. It's a lot easier to make grades at, say, the University of Wisconsin than at an Ivy league school. And if your study habits are lacking because it has been easy to get grades at high school level, then freshman year can be killer, especially if you aren't motivated. The fact that he got better by senior year hints at this.

Third, I agree with the ADD idea--at least a borderline case. My son has a borderline case of ADD, but has learned to cope with it, and is doing well now. He's 25 and about to graduate from the Art Institute of Portland. He's going to have a career that uses his "excess" energy,imagination and creativity--as a computer animation artist. Back when he was ten, the school psychologist had evaluated him because of his poor grades. He complained to her that the flourescent lights "hurt his eyes" and he couldn't read, etc. But then he started telling her an imaginative and creative story about the Star Ship Enterprise off in Deep Space, and she knew he was a very bright and creative boy.

As far as comparing JK to *, you can't just use grades, because you have no idea how hard each one was trying. And you also have to factor in *'s 20-plus years of alcohol and/or cocaine using, which is sure to fry a brain cell or two. I think using your brain practicing law or in the Senate is a bit healthier way to spend your 30s and 40s!

I'd love to see both of them tested and compared today! The way they judge the intelligence of presidents now is to use their speeches, written statements and books they've written. Plenty of material they could use for JK--but * hasn't written any books, and we know how he speaks.

[Dr Ron]

23. No question who is the intellectual

Clearly in this case comparing very old grades does not mean very much when we see the differences in what the two have achieved.

[Dr Ron]

24. Salon War Room

Salon isn't very helpful today.

Thay have one item on the military records, linking to Kos and making the same criticism.

They have a second item on the grades, ending with:

"In a statement yesterday, Kerry said he spent much of his time at Yale preparing to fly rather than engaging in his studies. The right will likely pick up on another aspect of the story: One of Kerry's best grades was in French"

This is sort of contradictory. The grades story is evidence that there were other consequences to signing the 180. having enemies who will twist anything is reason to be cautious about signing the 180 and allowing them access to material beyond the military records.

[TayTay]

26. Dr. Ron, let it blow over

Just let all this stuff come out now. Let everyone breathe deep in it and get it out of their systems.

It is an off year. The Senator is doing an excellent job in DC and he is raising a great many issues that need raising. This stuff about old military records and grades in college 40+ years ago matters in the blogging world, but not in the real world. No one cares and this will not carry over into anything.

The good that comes of this is the notion that the Liars were utterly wrong. If they dare to attack again, they can be attacked with their own words. Let the rest just shrivel on the vine with time. It matters not.

[karynnj]

42. Great Perspective

It is outside an election time and there is absolutely nothing Kerry did that shows him to be less intelligent, of less character or integrity or anything that he should apologize for. All it shows is that he was not a super dedicated student 40 years ago. (Although, Vanessa and Alex may object to any past parental comments that it was important for them to get good grades, given without disclosing his grades. I doubt it will change their respect or affection though.)

He has still been proven right on a huge number of issues from last year. His debate performance, his many thoughtful off the cuff comments on virtually every issue he was ever asked, his writing and his speeches all stand on their own and show that in the last 40 years he learned to focus and concentrated on many issues. He also has occasionally honestly said he doesn't know the answer on a few things.

This also shows that the press would have used this innocuous news to at minimum distract Kerry from the issues he needed to cover. Also, notice the Globe felt it necessary to say there was no further documentation on Kerry's first wound and to add a comment of his commander that his wound was only a scratch - without noting as a Kerry surrogate did during the campaign that he gave Kerry a positive fitness report after he was wounded - which if he felt there was anything amiss he should have noted it. If this gets attention when there is no imminent campaign, I think Kerry might have been right that releasing all the information would put him on the defensive -and they clearly would have made other claims and demands.

Considering that there were people in politics and in the media who wanted to find a bombshell - that would require people who respect him to change their opinion because their was major character deficit identified, this is not a problem. By the time Kerry runs again, there is nothing that diminishes him in the least here. (Also, wasn't McCain, by his own admission, at the bottom of his class.) Also, the Globe needs to at some point admit that most of Kerry's life is now an open book and I don't think they've caught him in a lie on anything. It would be nice if they conceded that he is honest.

Somehow, I don't think this will change his standing in MA or in the nation. (Maybe the Herald will ask for Kennedy's grades now.)

[TayTay]

51. Ahm, Teddy went through that ringer before.

There was a famous Uncle Ted scandal that showed he paid someone to show up and take a test for him. (Law School admissions or something. I no longer remember the details.) It blew over.

[JohnKleeb]

27. The thing is Kerry doesnt brag about it

My problem really isnt that Bush got medicore grades in college, its that he says hey look at me I stunk, and so can you and you can be president. My attiude about grades is that if I don't do so good, I try my best to improve and I dont brag about being medicore, in fact I am rather ashamed of my medicority in high school.

[TayTay]

28. You know, this is a non-story

This morning I wake up and stumble around the house trying to not walk into walls. I go in the kitchen, make some coffee and then stumble into the bathroom to try and shower and get ready for work. My husband (impish little thing that he is) reads the paper first and then places it in front of the first seat I usually plop down on in the morning. I was trying to remember why I get up so early every day (and haven't chucked it all for a Thoreau like existence in a cabin in Concord) when eye spied with my little eye, the front page story on Sen. Kerry and the Yale grades.

So help me Gawd, I laughed out loud. (I woke up pretty quick too. Nothing like the Globe on a Kerry vendetta to wake you up in the morning.) I lifted the paper, noted the awful pics and the awful and dumb story and then laughed out loud. This is not front-page material. It was yet another chapter in the 'How do we embarass Kerry today' sweepstakes that the Globe has going. Honestly, what a way to start a day.

You folks who only read this on the internet are lucky. But then again, you don't get to start your day with a laugh either. I seriously think the Globe and Kerry ought to try and bury their differences. This is ridiculous.

[JohnKleeb]

29. It is a non-story but my point is

I think the problem the party should have with Bush's grades arent the grades themselves, but the fact hes stupid enough to brag about it.

[TayTay]

30. And if Kerry is so dumb

how come he still cleaned Bush'es clock at three debates.

Me thinks one of them smartened up. One didn't.

[JohnKleeb]

31. You know I am not a great student myself

but I would never brag about it, its something I am actually ashamed of, and I really want to do my best in college because of it.

[TayTay]

32. I don't actually possess a college degree myself.

So I am unqualified to comment on anything but the absurdity of the whole thing.

Everyone else here has a college degree and I am prone to fits of abasing myself in front of them in boot-licking displays of academic jealousy. (It's an inferiority complex, someday I'll get over it.) I just have to think of a meditation to make me feel better about myself.

Mantra time: I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like me.

[JohnKleeb]

33. Its ok

My dad only went to college for a year and I find him to be one of the more smarter guys I know.

[whometense]

35. Intelligence and college degree:

Unrelated. I know some fantastically smart people who never went to college. Conversely, I know a pile of absolute idiots who graduated cum laude.

[karynnj]

43. It's also clear that even in college, he did have a lot of ability

The work he did on the debate team required that he be well read, capable of analyzing information intelligently and quickly, and then persuasively articulating his conclusions. The comment from the retired teacher who remembered him well as a good student - but who had given him relatively low grades, which makes me wonder if perhaps he didn't spend sufficient time to papers or other work handed in - probably reflects that through class discussion he knew Kerry got the material.

So, whether from classes or outside activities, by the time he left college, he had learned how to think, he was well read, he spoke well, he wrote well and he knew how to focus on things he was interested in. Every professor I ever had said that learning was more important than grades - most of us didn't take them up on it!

[whometense]

49. Good points.

I have two sons of my own, both extremely bright and highly motivated - to learn what interests them.

If they find/found a class boring or a teacher condescending - look out for the C's. In the classes that inspire enthusiasm - A's.

[rox63]

41. I also suffer from an educational inferiority complex

I have a 2-year degree from a community college, an almost everyone I know has at least a 4-year degree. Several friends and aquaintances have graduate degrees. Some have multiple graduate degrees. But most of them still say they think I'm wicked smaht. So I guess I should just accept the compliment. :D

[TayTay]

52. I kid, but it doesn't acutally bother me

I am too old for that bullshit. And I have seen too much for it to actually bother me. (Joking is another matter. I love to kid myself.)

I knew this brilliant kid who had a full-paid scholarship to MIT. He was a brilliant natural mathematician. He hated college and dropped out half way through freshman year. He went to work in a machine shop where he was very, very happy. (He eventually devised a new bookkeeping method for them and invented their computer system for them as well.)

John Kerry is a brilliant man. He found what he wanted to do and applied himself. (Ever listen to the guy? Ever hear him debate? Ever seen him show up in committee and grill a witness? I rest my case.)

[ginnyinWI]

45. don't feel inferior!

I know that's really easy to say. I got my degree at age 45, so I know both sides of this. Having that degree did give me a real boost in self esteem, but:

If you were to go back to college full time, it would be only half as hard for you than you imagine. It was for me. The reason is life experience--I already had it, and could apply it to what I was learning. It was kind of like, "oh, yeah, that makes sense because I remember___".
A traditional (younger) student learns half of what they do outside of the classroom, because it is usually their first experience at life and they are learning who they are and how they relate to others. They meet a lot of other types of people and learn where they fit in.
Anyone who has reached mid-life has already had this part of a college education--the life experience part. The other half is the in-class part, which basically is learning how to learn. People actually forget 75% of what they actually learn in class. But it's learning how to be a learner that you keep. You get confidence in your ability to think and learn because you've done it over and over and been graded on it. So if you have the ability to learn and express what you've learned intelligently, you've got the other half of a college education too.

(and I can tell by your posts that you do! ) :)

[whometense]

34. I think you make an excellent point.

It's not the grades themselves, it's the pride in his own mediocrity that sends the horrible message that being smart's nothing to be proud of.

Yeah, the education president. What a piece of sh*t.

[JohnKleeb]

36. Thats what we should focus on

I feel hypocritical criticizing his grades but I think its very legitimate to criticize his repeated braging about it, like he somehow overcame it, bullshit, he had a well connected father, thats why he went to Yale and stayed there. If he could only admit how fortunate he was as a kid, I would have a little itsy bitsy respect for him, at least Kerry doesnt act like he was a Horatio Alger story, he realizes that he was fortunate though not incredibly lucky as a kid.

[whometense]

37. I agree.

I could not care less what either of them got for grades in college. Like the subject of one's undergraduate major, these are things that in the long run are fairly unimportant in life.

What they actually learned in college is another story. Clearly, * learned that you can slide through with the right connections and very little effort, and that bullying gets you what you want.

Kerry seems to have carried from college an idealistic sense of obligation to his country that I find very touching.

*= "What's in it for me?"
Kerry= "Ask not what your country can do for you,..."

[JohnKleeb]

38. Yep thats what matters to me

I am not an intelluctal or that smart but I believe in hard work and overcoming mistakes, and the way Kerry looks at it is so much more honorable than Bush does.

[TayTay]

39. One of them volunteered and went to Vietnam

and got his ass shot at on a regular basis. I think this counts for more than the education at Yale, but that's just my opinion. I also think it caused a smart guy to begin to focus and turn it on a bit.

On the other hand, the other guy went to Harvard and didn't even bother to show up to complete his Guard Duty. And he has coasted through life ever since.

This is the real difference. The college grades are meaningless (unless you are their respective mothers, in which case you can scold.)

[JohnKleeb]

40. Its what you do with what life gives you rather than what life gives you

that makes the difference in a life.

[ginnyinWI]

47. opposite sides of the fence

Bush: connections--it's who you know that's important--someone to grease the way for you--someone to get you in (someone who owes your Daddy). So get chummy with the right people--that's what college's for! Anything goes when it's party time!

Kerry: you have the obligation to make the most of yourself in life, to live up to the high standards your family puts on you, and to give back out of what you've been blessed with. Prove to people that you are not a waste of space. Have a blast, but keep it legal.

[JohnKleeb]

50. Great points there

I live more by the latter, I want to do the best I can, I of course wanna have a good time and at the same time make my parents proud.

[ginnyinWI]

53. you've picked a good role model

:)

[JohnKleeb]

55. well hes an admirable man, dont you think Kerry is?

[ginnyinWI]

56. he's the best. n/t

[JohnKleeb]

58. One of the most admirable men of my times, I like him a lot

[ginnyinWI]

46. Bush family values

Look at his daughters v.s. Kerry's and the difference in values passed on is obvious!

[elshiva]

44. Those are awful pics!

;(

[wisteria]

54. Just the most awful picture ever!

An enemy of Kerry's must have given them that awful picture.

[karynnj]

57. Could it be the navy picture when he first went to OTS?

In "Tour of Duty" < Kerry talked about how ugly he was without much hair - I had assumed that he was just complaining, but he really looks awful in this picture. I can't imagine how it would be to go from pretty good looking to this.

[TayTay]

59. It was that late 50's thing

Slicking back the hair and so forth. Yuck. Fast forward to the same guy, six years later, VVAW march. I rest my case.

[elshiva]

60. Looks like Kerry is cursing someone in that pic!

[rox63]

61. Maybe he was having premonitions of * n/t

[elshiva]

62. LOL!

[Island Blue]

63. Who really cares about their grades in college?

I mean please. These are men in their 60's. Besides, I'm much more impressed with someone who continues to improve and learn after their formal schooling (regardless of level of education) as opposed to someone who becomes more and more of a blithering idiot with each passing day.

It's not where you start out that matters, it's where you end up!

[politicasista]

64. I agree

As Rev. Al Sharpton put it in is DNC speech about family values, "Life is not where you start, but where you're going.":)