Mark Warner's criticism of Kerry

[JI7]

what do you all think of what Warner says ? i think his criticism is interesting and worth looking into as someone who represents and was elected in a mostly Republican state. i wish he would have been more specific though and given examples of what he wanted Kerry to do or what he would do himself.


A possible 2008 presidential candidate criticized last year's nominee, John Kerry (website - news - bio) , on Tuesday for adhering too rigidly to Democratic Party doctrine.

"One of my critiques of Senator Kerry, and I campaigned hard for Senator Kerry, was I can't tell you where he ever broke with anything in Democratic orthodoxy," Virginia Gov. Mark Warner (website - bio) said in an interview with The Associated Press. "We've got to rethink the way we talk to the American people, what we lay out as to where we're headed."

Warner was in Iowa, site of the party caucuses that kick off the quadrennial nominating process, to talk about high school education and prepare for a meeting later this year of the National Governors Association. He is chairman of the organization.

Warner traveled with Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack, another possible 2008 candidate, and did little to quiet speculation about his future aspirations.

"I can honestly say, to quote my colleague from California, 'I'll be back,'" Warner said, a reference to the movie line often uttered by actor-turned-governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.

The criticism of Kerry was the latest from a Democrat. Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said in a Rolling Stone magazine interview that Kerry ignored rural America in his presidential bid.

Warner said Democrats must find a way to expand the party's appeal. If Democrats continue to "hope that if everything breaks right we can get to a 17th state and somehow 270 electoral votes, we do this country a disservice and we do the Democratic Party a disservice," Warner said.

"Democrats aren't the majority party in this country. We've got to convince some other folks to think about voting Democratic."

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0605/234178.html

[Mass]

1. Obligatory criticism of Kerry's campaign for who wants to run in 2008

My guess is that he means that Kerry should have run supporting gun rights or constitutional amendments against civil unions.

[TayTay]

2. I have seen some interesting actions on Kerry's part

that indicate some very interesting self-criticism of the 2004 race. The Senator has repeatedly mentioned the problems with the polling places and with getting actual voters to the voting booth and having those votes count. (And he has appeared at two Cap Hill PR things on this.)

Kerry had the CBC (Congressional Black Caucus) over to his Georgetown house to discuss past and future relations with the group and with the communities they represent. The implied content of the discussion was where Kerry went right and wrong with this constituency.

John Kerry repayed a friend and went to LA to endorse Antonio Villaraigosa. The two are friends and I would bet that many trips between DC (or Boston) and LA are in the works. The Hispanic community is extremely important for the future of the Democratic Party.

Sen. Kerry gave $1.5 million to the grassroots efforts for the DNC. I think he knows where the effort went off the tracks last time and I think he has a pretty good idea where the Dems have to reclaim turf.

Kerry recently passed on a chance to criticize Howard Dean, wehn Gov Dean got into a tiny bit of trouble for using partisan language. Kerry said he wouldn't have said what Dean did, but that Dean needs time to adjust to the job and that things will work out. Howard Dean will be the Chairman of the DNC during the 2008 race.

Kerry has kept his campaign sea legs and has made a lot of effort to get out of DC and the Senate and to make speeches that force him to speak with regular voters. There was a perception, once, that Kerry was a poor public speaker and spoke in a way that was inaccessible to average voters. He is not allowing that (perceived?) bad habit to reform.

I have more. Anyone else?

[JohnKleeb]

4. I think it was a good move on his part

to do what he did about Dean, what I would have done honestly, and I like the fact he paid Villagariasa back, he seems like a good guy really and maybe if Kerry runs again, he'll support him again and play a key role in reaching out to the Hispanic community which is very important to the party's future.

[politicasista]

3. If he said "I'll be back" That probably means he is running.

He has been mentioned as a "fresh face for 2008" by some here at DU and elsewhere.

[LittleClarkie]

5. Isn't he kind of Conservative

Not only Kerry, but also the Democratic Party as a whole, if their "orthodoxy" is bad.

So if he's to the Right of Kerry, does he mean he wanted Kerry to be less liberal?

[JohnKleeb]

6. Yes hes more conservative

Kerry is much more liberal than Warner will ever be, he supports restrictions on abortion, isnt a big supporter of gun control, and isnt a liberal on economics either. Hes been a great governor dont get me wrong but hes criticizing John for being too liberal here.

[JI7]

7. at least he is being honest and consistent

i would have a problem if he criticized Kerry for not being liberal enough considering his own record . it does show if/when he runs he will do so as who he is , a moderate/conservative leaning person.

[paulk]

8. urban vs rural

One of the more fascinating statistics to come out of the 2004 election (and I don't think it gets mentioned enough), is that Democratic Senatorial candidates recieved 2.8 million more votes overall than their Republican counterparts. Yet the Republicans picked up four seats.

Mr. Warner is wrong - Democrats are the majority party in this country.

The way our Senate is set up favors rural (conservative) areas over urban (liberal) areas. So if the Democratic Party wants to regain power nationally it must move in a more conservative direction to gain the rural vote. That seems to be what Warner and Reid are saying. Even Howard Dean seems to be saying this.

I can understand the pragmatism of this, in fact I've even advocated for it... but, I'll tell you, as someone who grew up in conservative rural west bumfuck upstate NY, I am sick and tired of these people controlling the American political scene. There are more of us than them. And they are destroying this nation's future.

Where do liberals draw the line? At what price victory? How much do we have to give up to these people?


I am not in a good mood tonight...

[Dr Ron]

9. Not impressed

"One of my critiques of Senator Kerry, and I campaigned hard for Senator Kerry, was I can't tell you where he ever broke with anything in Democratic orthodoxy."

Just showing his ignorance there. For starters, I'd go with Kerry backing a balance budget before many other Democrats did.

The real problem is that just breaking from party doctrine isn't necessarily good or bad. I've seen lots of similar vague comments from Warner. Before I can take him seriously he'll have to say specifically what he'd do different.

A few days ago I read a long interview with Warner on health care policy. I really was hoping to find good things in it--I figure that the more Democrats who say things I like, the better. I was disappointed. He had very little of substance to say. I just didn't get that feelling I get when reading something comparable from Kerry that there is someone who really understands the problem.

[JohnKleeb]

10. Ah Gramm-Rudman-Hollings, yes I remember that

[fedupinBushcountry]

11. Virginian here

OK here is my take. First Warner is a pure DLC'r, and plays to the Repubs on many things. Also Tim Kaine who is running for Governor also criticized Kerry awhile back.

To me I am tired of Democrats playing to the South, you would think they are the only damn people in this country. I may live in Virginia but I am a home grown Yankee, and I'll tell ya, the South really pisses me off, are we the United States of America or the United States of only one region, that we have to continuously pander to. :rant:

[JohnKleeb]

12. I agree with you

I am a native though, but I consider myself more of a northerner because my family has only been here since post WWII. Yes Warner is very DLC, good man but I prefer Kerry politically as do you. Kaine is a bit more liberal than Warner but hes still a moderate despite what Kilgore says. I am voting for Kaine in Novemeber but the Indepedent Republican from Winchester is a guy I dont mind, he seems to be a decent person.

[fedupinBushcountry]

13. Hey

Did you see the ad where they put Kerry up with I forget who, and of course it is a terrible picture of JK.

Who is the Independent Repub ? I am also voting for Kaine, but I am not totally thrilled especially with these comments:

Speaking of loyalty problems, would it be too late for Virginia to pass a law allowing Mark Warner to run again, as he could in any other state? You would think that the new Democratic nominee, LG Tim Kaine, was running for governor of Alabama, not of swing state Virginia. Consider these recent comments:
"I think that John Kerry demonstrated much more comfort talking about windsurfing and hockey than he did talking about his beliefs," says Kaine, admitting that he does have a limited amount of sympathy for the Massachusetts senator's reticence.(...)
more>

http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/3/28/104751/322

[JohnKleeb]

14. No I didnt

What a foolish thing to do by Kaine, though its not surprisng. Its State Senator Russell Potts who is regarded as a moderate overall. I am voting for Kaine, first vote, remember to vote against the gay marriage ban which sigh Kaine supports.

[wisteria]

16. I'm a northerner by birth, but I have spent five years living in

North Carolina and South Carolina. Maybe, that is a partial qualification. I agree with you, why do we have to play to the southern states as if they are all that matters. We should promote our ideals and campaign in those states, but why should we ignore the more populated northern states just to appease the South. We will never agree on everything, but we should be able to come together on the really important issues. I think Bush and company are the real problem right now, they like the division, it works to their advantage and they continue to promote the differences rather then call attention to the similarities.

[saracat]

15. Fuck Warner and Reid. They aren't liberals.

If I have to vote for people like them, I really might stay home. I am serious. This Lakoff repuke lite stuff is making me crazy. I wondered how long it would be before the bastids went after Kerry. My own vice chair told me that I am just going to have to accept the fact we will NEVER nominate or elect a liberal.I am so angry I could spit. Sometimes I can hate these Dems almost as much as Repukes. Maybe it is because they really aren't Dems!

[TayTay]

17. Saracat, I do not believe this

I am not a total convert to Lakoff, nor do I find him a revelation as some people seem to. He is basically telling the Dems to adopt a better way of speaking so as to appeal to more folks. (Well, duh!)

I taped a talk former SecOfLabor Robert Reich gave at UCBerkley (I get all these wonderful channels on Dish Network. There are 5 liberal or Ed channels that I watch all the time. Good, odd stuff.) Reich was talking about how bad the ineqaulity between income groups is right now and that he can only see two outcomes: The extreme gap between rich and everyone else results in the birth and growth of a legitimate progressive movement. He likened this to the growth of the progressive movement in the 1880's after the McKinley Admin. (This followed a burst of angry and scary populism in the later part of the 19th century.) This would be a good thing and would address some of the awful extremes we find now.

The other option is a snap or break in the social structure. (This is my worst fear and something democracy can devolve into. It has happened before in other countries.) This feeds xenophobia and genuine, ugly and lethal class warfare. This is what must be avoided at all costs.

The future of America rests in the hands of Red America. (For better or worse, this is true.) The Democratic Party must make it known that it stands for the people, for opportunity in education and in jobs. The Dems have to break through with their message on health care and on taking care of the least among us. This is critical. If the Dems can't break through with a 'liberal message' in Red America, then we are in for very, very rocky times ahead. (Rise of demogoguery, rioting, pitting ethnic groups against each other and a deeper and faster race to the bottom on jobs. Very scary stuff.)

[saracat]

20. If Lakoff was being applied to help us reframe the GOP,

the way they reframed us, I would have no problem with him or his philosophy. But I do NOT see the point in our remaking ourselves to appease the GOP voter. I do not believe the future rests in "the hands of Red America". God help us if that is true. Then it really would be time to pack it in. The future lies in both the conversion of the more intelligent members of the opposition and in the creation of "new Democrats". There are many more independents than any other voter group. It is up to us to get those people and to convince the new voter! We almost won this election. We may have actually won it and it was stolen. Why do we have to believe Red America should be pandered too? There are just as many of us, if not more.We should make sure that our side votes and when it does, that their votes are counted.These GOP lite panderers are driving people away from the Dem Party. And most of the Republicans I talk to want us to really stand for something and they want a choice. They tell me that they would vote for a real Dem but not a carbon copy of a Repuke.Voters want to see a difference. It isn't what we have in common with the republicans that needs to be emphasized, it is what separates us from them! And as far as Dems not being able to break through with a "liberal message'. I wouldn't know. They haven't had a liberal message in so long I can't remember. Clinton was a centrist . Gore was basically nothing, and Kerry was made to look like a noncomittal moderate.If Kerry had run as the liberal he really is, I think it would have been a landslide.It is this equivication that is killing us.
On the other hand, the inflammatory rhethoric of some is not the way to go either. I think we need to be passionate , CLEAR , on message liberals with principle. That would do it.

[TayTay]

22. We are not pandering to Red America

We promote a Democratic agenda. But we do not concede issues or positions to the Rethugs. The Rethugs are lying when they talk about a belief in a 'Culture of Life.' They are flat-out lying. They believe in interfering in the decisions that families make about their own health care. They believe that taking away Social Security benefits is okay. They believe that it's okay to effectively stop giving out aid to education.

85% of Red State people believe that the minimum wage is too low and needs to be raised. Hig percentages of Red Staters believe that the gap between rich and poor is too high now and is getting higher. We have to tell the truth on these issues.

And yes, we need the Red Staters. The future population trends of the United States are tilted towards the Red States. Either the Democratic Party finds a way to break through the lies and the facade of eceits that have been spun by the Rethugs or we are doomed. States like MA and NY are losing population. The growth areas are in Texas, AZ, and so forth. We either figure out a way to get the new residents of these state or we pack it in.

[saracat]

24. Okay. I care about the red states. But we are pandering to the so called

values voters, who are a myth, IMHO. People who vote for us aren't going to vote their religion.They are going to vote their pocketbooks. Those that do vote their religion, are never going to vote for us anyway because they believe they are procribed from doing so.I still say, we should spin the repukes instead of ourselves and reach out to those that WILL vote for us.And those voters are going to increase as their pocketbooks empty and there is no one left to blame but Bushco.

[karynnj]

18. Interesting that they are still knocking Kerry

Here though, it might be positioning for Warner more than specifically knocking Kerry. The logical conclusion based on his statement that Kerry was too liberal and didn't break with "orthodoxy" is that we should find a non-NE moderate, ie not Kerry and probably not Hillary. Who could it be? Warner?

[Mass]

19. delete

[LittleClarkie]

21. You know, I can disagree with Warner and Reid

but I would never question their right to say what they feel, even if it's Kerry they're talking about. I don't want to start exhibiting the same behaviors as I see in some Deaniacs.

[Mass]

23. Warner latimes interview

Now, we know what he meant by that: cut Medicare and Medicaid and change Social Security.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-060905warner_lat,0,3844000.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Virginia Gov. Warner: Democrats Need to Attract Moderates
By Janet Hook, Times Staff Writer

WASHINGTON -- Conceding that Republicans now command a national political majority, Virginia's Democratic governor, Mark Warner, said today that his own party needs to do far more to appeal to moderate voters and to offer alternatives to President Bush's policies, and not just block them.

Warner, speaking at lunch to Los Angeles Times reporters and editors, argued that Democrats cannot simply cater to their liberal base if they are to succeed on a national scale.

"I think Republicans are a majority party in the country at this point," said Warner, who is in the final year of his four-year term and is considered a possible contender for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2008. Under the state's term limits, he cannot run for a consecutive second term.

<snip>

On policy matters, Warner suggested Democrats in Congress would benefit from a different approach in dealing with President Bush. For the most part this year, on issues including Social Security and healthcare spending, Democrats have largely staked their ground by opposing Bush's policies rather than by offering alternatives that acknowledge there is some need for change.

Warner said that is a mistake, citing as an example Democrats' adamant opposition to proposed cuts in projected growth of Medicaid, a federal-state program whose costs are skyrocketing

<snip>

[beachmom]

25. Warner is actually a Yank

I actually feel a bit of kinship with Governor Warner. I also live in Virginia, and Mark Warner comes from the same town in Connecticut as I do -- Vernon. And my Mom knows someone who taught the governor in kindergarten (that's public school by the way). He went on to Harvard, and later came to northern Virginia amassing a fortune ($200 million?) as a venture capitalist I believe in the telecommunication business. He's not a liberal, I suppose, although I like his mantra about a "sensible center". Nevertheless, he made a big decision recently, about drilling off the coast of Virginia Beach -- he said NO, which means he won't completely cater to business interests, and actually cares about the environment.

I thought his criticism of Kerry was fairly mild -- it wasn't a cheap shot like Kaine's was (anything involving the word windsurfing is pure GOP talking points). I suppose I'll be voting for Kaine, but he's no Democrat in my view. He's pro-life and you guys are now saying he supports that amendment banning gay marriage. I mean no Republican up in New England would have such positions!

Getting back to Warner, I guess I have to say that I like him. He's a good governor, and I think he's one of the better possibilities, in terms of character and some new ideas of what a Democrat can be, for 2008. I won't rule him out. Getting back to his criticisms of Kerry, they were almost more a criticism of the Party and nothing personal. On the healthcare stuff, Ron, I'll have to plead ignorance, though.