Any other Kerrycrats going to the DC anti-war protests in Sept?

[rox63]

I've just decided I have to put my money where my mouth is. So I've just booked a room in DC for 9/23-9/27, and I've requested some time off from work around then. Anyone else here thinking about going? Some folks in the Massachusetts forum are thinking about trying to organize a northern Peace Train (or bus), like the Southern Peace Train that's already being planned. Here's the flyer for the Southern Peace Train: http://www.newdemocracyrising.com/doc/peacetrain.pdf

[TayTay]

1. I am very sriously considering going

I was looking at going with the Littleton, MA peace group, but nothing is definite.

So you need a person to share expenses?

[rox63]

2. What peace group?

I'm looking for a few like-minded folks to hang out with.

And yep, I'm looking for someone to share expenses in DC. I've booked a double room (tow double beds) at this hotel for 9/23 - 9/27:

http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/h/d/pc/1/en/hd/WASSM

I'm currently haven't decided how I'm getting down there. But I wouldn't mind sharing the drive, if someone else was willing.

[TayTay]

3. Go here and see what strikes your fancy

http://www.unitedforpeace.org/groups.php?state=MA

[Island Blue]

19. I found something kind of bizarre on that site.

I did a check on groups in NC and VA, and listed among all of the peace loving groups from VA was "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth".

Based in Alexandria, their blurb said "We are a group of veterans who recognize that peace without justice is not peace." Oh, really!

Hmmmmm. If I met one of these guys at an anti-war rally, things could get unpeaceful very quickly! I do declare, my mind is boggled.

[sandnsea]

4. I won't

Not if that flier is what it's about. "Hold Bush & Congress Accountable" WTF???

Bush and the neocon ideology is responsible. The Bush Doctine, our National Security Strategy. Anybody who wants to keep piling on Congress (who are the only ones who CAN hold Bush accountable), well, they're just fucking stupid. We need to be courting Congress, not attacking them. Most of the time, those who claim to want to help do absolutely nothing but hurt.

[rox63]

5. The only way the Rethug-run congress will do anything about *

Is if we hold their feet to the fire. Speaking out and marching in the streets is one of the most visible ways to do that.

[sandnsea]

9. They didn't say Republicans

The flier I read said Congress and from what I've seen, that usually means the entire Congress, Democrats included. Until the target is accurate and the solution is accurate, I can't support this stuff anymore.

[Island Blue]

6. I'd like to go - anyone from the VA Beach area planning to go?

I would love to split expenses.

[beachmom]

7. I'm not sure

I'll be honest. I'm not sure how I feel about Iraq, as far as an immediate pullout. Even Kerry doesn't advocate this. I feel like a "Stop the Incompetence" march is more where I'm at. Pulling out would mean Taliban like insurgents would take over swaths of Iraq, terrorizing the people and spreading their extremist ideology. A destabilized Iraq (not that it isn't destabilized now) will destabilize the entire region. Total Civil War (which is partially already happening now) will be imminent.

It sounds nice to just pull out all the troops, but what are the consequences? Part of the reason that OBL and al Qaeda set up camp in Afghanistan was because we all ignored that region. We simply are not in a position to just "pull out" and cocoon ourselves in America, because we now live in a global world, where problems across the globe can now directly affect us.

Yes, this whole situation is *'s fault, but whatever, the people voted for him in November, and we're stuck with him until '08. Somehow, Democrats and sensible Republicans need to pursuade him to implement new ideas, like the ones Kerry outlined in his e-mail in addition to other ideas people are coming up with.

Those of you who are in favor for an immediate pullout, I wouldn't mind hearing your reasoning for this. And not just based on arguments from the past or "make love not war" stuff, but what will happen to Iraq if we just "cut and run". As I have expressed before, Iraq is a far worse situation than Vietnam, because global terrorism is a different animal from the cold war, and Iraq is strategically so much more important than Vietnam. Say what you want about oil, but we actually need the stuff or our economy will collapse. I'm interested in your opinions. Thanks.

[rox63]

8. There are a lot of different groups participating

And they don't all agree on what they are protesting. So there's likely to be someone there that will be in tune with you.

[Island Blue]

10. I can understand what you're feelings Beachmom -

I have some of the same conflicts going on in my head. First let me say I've been against the War Against Iraq way before it was fashionable to be so. I was against it before it began.

Having said that though, I also have mixed feelings about an immediate withdrawal, even though I don't want to see another American service man or woman or another innocent Iraqi citizen killed. I do think we need a fairly short time table for withdrawal. We need to let the Iraqi people know that we won't be there forever, and that they are going to have to govern themselves soon. (10 to 12 years Rummy says? Not acceptable.)

I thought what President Kerry laid out the other day in his "The Speech the President Should Give" was perfect. (Although I'm sure it really pissed a lot of people off that he didn't call for immediate withdrawal.) His plan was well thought out, logical and showed his understanding of the history of the region. Unfortunately, the president we're actually stuck with understands none of this. If left up to him and his puppet masters at Halliburton, we will be there 12 years and beyond.

So why do I want to attend the protest? Mainly because I'm very much against the war and dammit somebody needs to know about it. Also though, I would HOPE that if the current administration sees such an outpouring it would cause them to rethink their positions and begin to plan for a withdrawal as soon as possible rather than in 10 - 12 years. (Maybe I'm dreaming.)

My fear is that if Bush does suddenly decide to pullout immediately and things do go horribly wrong in Iraq and other places though out the world, the anit-war protesters will take the blame for Bush's failure, thereby paving the way for unending Republican rule.

I hope some of that made a little bit of sense. I think one reason a lot of us like John Kerry so much is that like him, we are actually capable of holding two opposing thoughts in our brains at one time!

[TayTay]

11. Well, I wrote this on one of those stupid anti-Kerry threads on GD

The poster was making the 'How can you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake' argument and using it to bash Kerry for not advocating immediate withdrawal.

Same way you can ask somebody
to be the First Iraqi to die because they don't have anyone there to protect them.

The Vietnam War was a fuck-up in the beginning, the middle and at the end. Millions of people died because we didn't have a good 'exit strategy.' Did the mothers and fathers who screamed because their children were killed by Pol Pot matter less than the ones who were killed by the Americans?

We have to have an 'exit strategy' that actually tries to do some good. We are in Iraq, we now have to use our brains to get out in a way that reduces the death toll. To just say 'get out now' is a brain-dead, immoral and irresponsible reaction to our responsibilities in that country.

I voted for the 'Get Out of Iraq' resolution at the MA Dem convention in May. I believe in it. I also believe that we can't just drop everything and go. It's wrong. It's not wrong because of what Bush and his cronies did to get us in there, it's wrong because of the suffering, death and destruction that will follow.

Kerry is proposing steps that will lead to that. I believe in what he is saying. Like it or not, we broke the friggin place, we have a moral responsibility to try and get a solution. What Bush is doing is not working and making things worse. Kerry is trying to make it better. And he is fulfilling my requirement that it be a moral solution. That's what I support and that's why I continue to give Kerry money in his PAC. He's earned it with these kinds of thoughtful solutions

I posted it in that silly thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1896383

[Island Blue]

13. That's basically what I was trying to say

it just came out way differently.

[TayTay]

14. You said it just fine

I was agreeing with you. You did a good job.

[rox63]

15. I agree with you

I know we can't just leave without trying to right some of the wrongs we've created. But I think that leaving should be our ultimate goal. And that's why I will put my feet on the street against the war.

[angrydemocrat]

12. Anyone from Tennessee Going

I'm planning on going.

[beachmom]

16. Thanks Island Blue and TayTay for your insights!

I, too, was opposed to the war when the first "Shock and Awe" hit Baghdad in March 2003. I was thinking "I'm not ready! Why can't we give the U.N. weapons inspectors more time?" However, I knew in January 2003 that the whole U.N. process was a sham, because a friend of mine with ties to the military said we were definitely going to war. It was a done deal, and the U.N. wrangling was just a little bit of stalling to get the troops and materiel in place. I couldn't believe it when she told me. But the Downing Street Memo is pretty darn good evidence that getting the Congress and the U.N. on board to go along with the invasion was simply an exercise that would have no influence on *'s decision which had already been made.

But now that we're there, we have created a new dynamic that didn't exist before which makes it (to me) inconceivable to get out very quickly. I like the way you guys frame it. An exit strategy. I have to say I agree with the chimp that a time table is not a good idea. But specific, measurable goals would be helpful. He didn't give them, which means a repeat of the Vietnam mistakes. From what I have read, the neo-cons are actually Democrats who left the party in the 60's over the Vietnam War (they were more hawkish). Perhaps, they should have stuck around longer so they could see a political party self destruct under the extreme pressure of a horrible, endless war. Then they wouldn't be making the same mistakes today.

In regards to the peace march, I guess I need more info. Plus I do have small children so that would take some coordination making sure my husband could babysit. Also, this isn't going to be some kind of civil disobedience thing, is it? But it would be a great experience! I've never been in a demonstration before!!! But I live in Virginia Beach, so if I decided to go I definitely would want to carpool with you, Island Blue. And isn't FedupinBushCountry in this area, too?

[Island Blue]

17. I think Fedup is from the VA Beach area if I remember correctly

I'd like to learn more about what's planned too. Maybe I'll have time to seek out some info. this weekend. How long does it take to get to DC from where you are? I've only been once but it seems like it was like a 5 - 6 hour drive from here. I'm guessing maybe 4 1/2 from VA Beach?

[beachmom]

18. A little over 4 hours depending on traffic

[rox63]

20. You might want to ask

politicasista if she's interested. I'm pretty sure she's from TN.

[politicasista]

21. Hi angrydem,

Been busy and stuff, but I will let you know. :hi:

[angrydemocrat]

22. Hi politicasista,

Sounds good to me. I'm looking forward to going myself. :hi:

[JohnKleeb]

23. Yeah I am going

[saracat]

24. I would like to go. I have a friend who works in DC that I could camp out

with. I am not certain yet. Finances are a problem. Just getting there from AZ is expensive! Since hubby has been laid off, we don't have any frequent flier miles. Another reason to protest! It would be great if the forum people who go could get together!