Bill And Hill's Aspen Adventure

[whometense]

I honestly hate to post this on a Friday night, but it r-e-a-l-l-y burns me. So I'm going to share for the simple reason that misery loves company. I apologize in advance.

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_69809.asp

Bill And Hill's Aspen Adventure
posted July 21, 2005

The Republican National Committee and other conservative outlets vented anger recently upon remarks made by Hillary Rodham Clinton at the Aspen Ideas Festival during a weekend conference in Aspen, Col. Sen. Clinton, according to the Associated Press, referred to President Bush by saying, "I sometimes feel that Alfred E. Neuman is in charge in Washington." Alluding to the Mad Magazine poster boy, she followed with the Neuman's catch phase, "What, me worry?"

Republicans and the media miss the deeper message of the hastily scheduled Clinton Colorado fling. The red meat of the Neuman remark dropped for Democrats and an assembled audience billed as the "World's 100 Brightest Minds" is a smoke screen for a coordinated weekend attack aimed at possible 2008 Democratic Presidential rival John Kerry.

Few tag teams in wrestling match up with the power and the smarts of the Arkansas/New York Wrecking Crew. Bill Clinton led off the attack on Sen. Kerry to begin the conference by dissecting the Senator's 2004 Presidential Campaign. Mr. Clinton characterized Kerry's stance on National Security during the last days of the campaign as "soft" and unclear to Kerry supporters and Independents alike. The Rocky Mountain News provides the color here, "I think, in the end, he lost in a close race because of the security issue," he said. Newsmax in their headline repackaging the story put it more succinctly, "Bill Clinton: John Kerry Soft on National Security."

Mr. Clinton was not finished dispensing advice at Sen. Kerry's expense. He discussed the rules of engagement for 2008. Again from the Rocky Mountain News the former President in his criticism of Sen. Kerry said, "You can't win an election in this country unless you talk to people who you think aren't for you. A person who wants to be president has to be at home with issues and people when he knows he's on the losing side."

<snip>

Mr. Clinton's words to the Left Wing of the Democratic Party rips the fabric of the internal debate. "This is not Vietnam. It might be a quagmire, but it won't be for the reason it was in Vietnam. Our problem (in Vietnam) was we didn't have a legitimate government to back."

So here we have Bill Clinton, the defacto leader of the Democrats, saying we are in Iraq to stay. This is big medicine from 5,000 feet when contrasted with the positions taken by others in the party such as the liberal group MoveOn.org. More medicine was dispensed to any Democrat, especially Sen. Kerry, preparing to challenge to Clintons in 2008: We occupy the center - Attack us from the left if you can - Anyone who disagrees is soft on National Security.

Pardon my language, but fuck the Clintons.

[MH1]

1. Well, "World's 100 Brightest Minds" loses some credibility

if they are counting "Mr. Moral if you don't count my gambling habit" Bill Bennett, who I saw on CSPAN was there also.

[whometense]

2. Now I have to go do some digging.

I saw a post somewhere that was really snarky about this event. But seriously, that does it for me. I've been heading in that direction for a long time with the Clintons. Now I'm there.

[ginnyinWI]

9. I'll go there with you! Geeze.

This guy will just stab another good Dem right in the back. He cinveniently leaves out so much, such as the complicit corporate media during the campaign. And Kerry gave money to Hillary's re-election. With friends like these...

So do the American people want to trust a flip-flopping ex-president (and his wife)? Because we all remember him campaigning for JK. If he thinks we are going to forget, he's got a surprise coming. He's obviously been spending too much time with Bushes.

But on his best day, I never, ever trusted him like I trust John Kerry. Integrity matters, and it shows. So he can just go away now.

[JohnKleeb]

3. What the hell is up with that

Funny story with me is really, I feel more moderate every day and at the same time, I feel less and less respect for icons of moderation, the Clintons. Funny how things work like that. The Clintons to me are typical politicans who take the side of an issue they feel will get them more support, theyre what people say about Kerry.

[Noisy Democrat]

24. I know what you mean

I'm actually drawn to Kerry because I think we need someone moderate and reasonable leading the country. The Clintons don't strike me as moderate and reasonable, just manipulative.

[JohnKleeb]

26. I like that yeah

The Clintons though are politically speaking the definition of moderate. I guess you could say Kerry politically is a liberal but is in tone a moderate and I honestly think a moderate tone that looks at the merits of all sides. I find myself feeling more moderate because of the extremes on both sides who really upset me, and feeling less and less warmth for the Clintons because they do stuff like this and Hiliary's latest tirade against GTA strikes me as unreasonable since well I admit it I am a gamer but I also think shes avoiding hte most important issues that htis country faces, like the kids who cant afford college, etc.

[whometense]

4. Aspen Ideas Festival

http://www.aspeninstitute.org/index.asp?bid=17558

"Inspired Thinking in an Idyllic Setting"

Pretentious, much?

Agenda: http://www.aspeninstitute.org/index.asp?bid=20248

Some of the 100 Brightest:

David Brooks
Chris Matthews
Juan Williams


I actually am friends with someone who was a moderator there. I'll have to go find out what he thought.

[JI7]

6. of course, the media ELITE whores have always hated Kerry

even while small iowa papers were reporting the truth about Kerry gaining popularity before the caucuses the big media whores were still repeating the crap about Kerry's campaign being over.

[Island Blue]

5. Maybe Hillary should run as the Republican candidate in '08.

Except for the Alfred E. Newman remark she and Bill are beginning to sound kinda, sorta Republicanish. I'm not so sure they are really in touch with the American people at the moment though - I'm not sure most folks have the stomach for us to remain in Iraq as long as they seem to think we should. I'm afraid the '08 Democratic primary process is going to be brutal - let's just hope it's the same way for the Repukes.

[ginnyinWI]

10. absolutely, IB

The partisan politicking and insincerity is a match with the GOP.

[karynnj]

7. Pretty obnoxious and although it takes a lot of chutzpah to say it

I think Clinton's political skills are over rated if he thinks this is a really good strategic move. If over 50% of the entire population thinks Bush's war policy is bad, the % of Democrats must be really high. Then in the general election, it would make Iraq a non-issue as both parties would genuinely be the same.

His comments that it is not a quagmire because in VN we didn't have a legitimate government to back is strange. Diem, assassinated by the US was an elected leader and I believe Thieu was in Diem's government. Afterwords he was elected in as good an election as Iraq's. If anything, Iraq's government is shakier and still pretty ex-exile based.

I think Kerry is well positioned on this now. His plan is one to genuinely get out after helping stabilize the country, unlike Bush's. Kerry has also had high level military recommend positions similar to his. I doubt Bush's strategy will leave us in better shape in 3 years. Even if we are out, the cost in dollars and reputation will likely have been steep.


It's funny that Clinton's draft dodging and his snarky letter to say he was not joining Rotc(?)once he got a high draft number that didn't matter before may be used against him by some Kerry friendly vet. Maybe Kerry can replay Clinton's "take me" speech of the convention - to show the hypocrite as what he is. I used to feel some queasiness in the fact that I accepted in Clinton, characteristics I criticized in Republicans. Kerry has more integrity in any one strand of his hair, of which he has many, than Clinton has in his whole body.

The odd thing may be with the Clintons coming on this strong - it allows Kerry to reiterate that his policy is different and that everything he said on Iraq and Afghanistan has proved right. It might even win Kerry points with the left. (Also, if Bill is doing this, Bill's action of not supporting Kerry on the terrorist banking stuff might be come fair game. It is Kerry's strongest anti-terrorist card and he was obviously pushed to not make it an issue last time, but it does clearly show Kerry more prescient than Bill on terrorism in the 1990s. Pretty good for someone not as bright as Chris Matthews - How is he one of the 100 brightest? )

[ginnyinWI]

11. karyn, you're a true Kerrycrat!

"Kerry has more integrity in any one strand of his hair, of which he has many, than Clinton has in his whole body."

Well said! So well said, I just had to repeat it! :) It is so true!

[Noisy Democrat]

31. Good point on the military thing

I keep telling everyone who will listen that Kerry has come out strong *against* permanent bases in Iraq; I even posted a diary about that on DailyKos a few weeks back. As far as I know, Hillary thinks permanent bases there would be a wonderful idea. She's all for the war, thinks it's just great. We shouldn't let her squirm away from that as the public increasingly sours on this boondoggle. And if the public knows more about where Kerry's coming from on the Iraq issue, I think they'll like him a lot better.

[karynnj]

38. I think that the permanent bases could be almost a litmus test

on who sincerely wants to leave and not keep Iraq in a US sphere of influence/colony. I wonder why people don't demand to know the positions of the others - although they may feel it's premature and could hurt a future candidate. I wish people could see that Kerry IS not only on the Kennedy end of the spectrum, but has articulated an exit plan - at a time when people like Frank Rich (in his column mostly on Plame) say there is no exit plan.

[Noisy Democrat]

43. I think

we should push for making the no-permanent-bases thing a litmus test. I already push it every chance I get. We should keep talking it up.

[karynnj]

44. When I'm on I'll try too - I really think it is the cleanest

most easilly understood differentiator. As a Kerry supportor, I like that it puts Kerry on the hawkish end of those who are genuinely trying to get out. It was so frustrating to me that Kerry could state his 4 step solution to Iraq succincly in less than a minute - as he did on Letterman, but people complained that he either had no plan or that his plan was too complicated. The nice thing about No Bases is that it addresses empire building and all the other imperialistic elements of the real Bush actions, which Bill Clinton apparently agrees with.

What might be interesting is that it may cause the US to really examine its soul. Bush, B. Clinton and all obviously feel that if we need cheap oil for our society to run, we should become the dominant power in the ME and have puppets who let us have it. This is certainly not a government I could be proud of. (Also, I think uying the resource legitimately - even as it's price increases as it becomes scarcer - has to be cheaper (not to mention less deadly and moral) - than fighting a series of wars. It also leads to a very obvious push to improve technology on alternative energy sources and using oil more efficiently. The artifically lower prices work against this. (Kerry was fantastic when he talked about how being the country to develop this new technology helped get jobs and the environment too.

This also makes Kerry the one speaking in hopeful, positive terms from his heart based on the principles that we thought America was based on. They, like the Republicans last year, would be arguing based on fear. It worked in the general election for the Republicans last year - but I think only Lieberman took any like that position in the primaries. Hopefully, Democrats will reject it again in 2008 and maybe the country will be so fed up with what was done in our name that they would risk living by their real values.


I hate the position given by the 4 Democracts (Clinton, Bayh, Warner, and Vilsack) at the DLC meeting where they seem to be trying to right the Republicans from the right on this. Does anyone know if this position may make Visack vulnerable to a Kerry (or someone else from the left) challange in the primaries? (If Vilsack runs, Kerry beating hi in the caucus might be what's needed to highlight his appeal.)

[TayTay]

35. Not to mention the Clinton's dirty money

The genuinely impeachable and removal offense of the 1990's Clintons. Did anyone here read The Best Democracy Money Can Buy?" There was a deal between the Dems and the Rethugs over Clinton. We won't prsecute on this, if you forget that.

Bastards.

[karynnj]

39. Is that a book?

I haven't heard about it - Is it about the Indonesian banker - I remember very vaguely. Or the Chinese?

[TayTay]

41. Yup, book

I have the book and the spoken word CD. It's by, ah, Greg Palast. The Best Democracy Money Can Buy. I like it.

Palast is snarky to everyone. I probably would be too if I had his life. But he is a damn good investigative reporter.

[karynnj]

42. Thanks - Next time I'm in a book store, I'll look for it

[rockymountaindem]

8. That's the Rocky Mountain News for ya.

Always bashing Democrats. I suggest that if you want Colorado news with a slant that won't make you puke, read the Denver Post.

[globalvillage]

12. I unsubscribed from "Friends of Hillary"

and took down my pic of Bill and JPII when I first heard about this. Wrote the Hillary folks a pretty pissed off e-mail as well.
No one, even a Dem ex President, disses JK and stays in my good graces.
:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[Island Blue]

13. I think it's all just really hypocritical

especially coming from Bill. Wasn't he right there by Kerry's side during the last few days of the campaign? Was that all show on his part? Did he have that big of a change of heart in Kerry's positions and abilities in 8 short months? Those are all hypothetical questions of course - I agree with you Globalvillage :grr: :grr: :grr: !

[karynnj]

40. Especially when he hosted fun raisers for her

[paulk]

14. What is the political affiliation of the writer of this article?

Earlier, an article had been posted in this forum that quoted Clinton as saying Kerry lost because he was "soft" on national security. Now this article says that that "quote" came from Newsmax, a notoriously right wing source. Is this whole Aspen story a right wing attempt to divide Democrats? Polls did show that voters gave Bush the edge on national security - so I don't think the Clinton quote provided is that inflammatory. I would really like to see the entire speech before judging Clinton on the basis of this article.


"The Rocky Mountain News provides the color here, "I think, in the end, he lost in a close race because of the security issue," he said. Newsmax in their headline repackaging the story put it more succinctly, “Bill Clinton: John Kerry Soft on National Security.”"


My 2 cents...

[Mass]

15. The quote does not come from Newsmax

It remember this quote. It was two week-ends ago and was in many CO newspapers and then spread in other western newspapers. I posted a source the same week-end and you can find a lot of other sources.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=273&topic_id=34239&mesg_id=34239

[paulk]

19. please see posts 16 and 18

the Rove crew are very good at this sort of thing...

[Mass]

20. Newsmax certainly decided to exploit that

Unfortunately, Clinton did say it. This was probably not the major part of his speech, but frankly, I would prefer for him to shut up and stop promoting his wife. If she wants to be president, the last thing she needs and to give the impression that she runs because she is his wife.

[whometense]

16. Well, if you insist on being

reasonable... ;-)

Good point. Here's another piece by David Moon, a Kerry-basher: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1434559/posts A freeper!!


The website has some audio. Hillary's here: http://www.prx.org/piece/5139, but no Bill. I stand by my deep distrust of both of them, but you have a point.

[paulk]

18. I'm not a Hillary fan, either

but the right wing has this down to a science.

someone makes a statement - "I think, in the end, he lost in a close race because of the security issue,"

A right wing source like Newsmax or the Washington Times
spins it to - "Bill Clinton: John Kerry Soft on National Security."

Right wing pundits and editorialists use the spin as if it's what was actually said and it becomes part of the national discourse.

[politicasista]

17. It's interesting that no one in the AA community has complained

about Bill hanging really close to Bushes of late.

[Noisy Democrat]

21. AA?

What's that?

[JohnKleeb]

22. African American

[politicasista]

25. My bad. I forgot to explain that.

Thanks Kleeb. :hi:

[Mass]

23. They love him too much

They cant see his default.

[Noisy Democrat]

27. This actually strikes me as good news

That may sound perverse, but hear me out: Every time I hear that Hillary is going out of her way to stab JK in the back, I take it as a sign that he's in a lot stronger position than the media generally wants to admit, and that she's more worried about him than she lets on. Nobody bothers to attack a rival they're not worried about. Joe Biden has already announced his candidacy, Wesley Clark has apparently made it clear he's interested -- I forget how official it is, but it's obvious --, Edwards is obviously still hopeful, and everybody thinks Vilsack or Bayh might run. And who are the Clintons bashing on? Kerry. Funny that these "political geniuses" would be wasting time beating up on a washed-up has-been, huh?

[JohnKleeb]

28. You have a point

I also think shes making a huge mistake by being this centrist, as most Democratic primary voters are liberals especially in the Iowa caucus and New Hampshire primaries. Its gonna be an interesting primary season in 2008 thats for sure. Another name who I think will run will be my governor, Warner.

[Noisy Democrat]

29. Yeah

She's been swinging way right and annoying a lot of people. I manned a Democratic info booth at the Art Fair in Ann Arbor today; one guy mentioned he likes Hillary but doesn't know who else is running, and other people said they don't like Hillary, that she's too far right, she's selling out Democratic values, etc.

I think she's taking us Dems for granted -- trying to run in the general before she's got the nomination. They seem to hope that if they just chant "Resistance Is Futile" enough, they'll get it locked up, and meanwhile she's out doing photo-ops with Rick Santorum and what-not. I think this strategy could well backfire on her.

[JohnKleeb]

30. I wouldnt say her problem is that shes too far right

its that she likes to kiss up with the far right which makes no sense to me knowing what they said about her. Money fortunely has shown not to be what wins democratic primaries, we have Kerry to thank for that.

[Noisy Democrat]

32. Yeah to all that

She isn't exactly on the right, but she's kissing up to them, which is ridiculous. She goes to all these events hosted by Republicans, and it's obviously Republicans who are pushing her to run. If she does get the nomination -- god forbid --, she'll be in for a nasty surprise when all these Republicans who love her "moderation" stab her in the back. But then at least Kerry wouldn't be too old to run in '12. Still -- Kerry '08 would be much better.

[JohnKleeb]

34. Ill prefer Kerry in 08 to 12

for obvious reaons, of course I wanted Kerry 04 but nooooo. I dont think Democratic primary voters will take kindly to her moderation which is obvious to me to be moderation for the sake of moderation. She drives me nuts, I talked to a republican I know who still detests her even called her a witch.

[kerrygoddess]

33. Ah shit!

Hill doesn't have a chance in hell...

[TayTay]

36. Hi KG! I agree with you on that

And I hope this is all just Right Wing bullshit to detract from their own woes of late.

Cuz I know who helped floor-manage that Trial in the Senate and carried some really smelly water for Clinton. I know who wrote that Crimes Bill to get those 100,000 cops on the street and got that bill through the Senate. (But had his name taken off it for political purposes.) I know who stood beside Clinton when the Repukes were accusing him of being a long-haired hippie freaking draft-dodger and lent him credibility. Kerry did a lot for Clinton. It was not a one-way street. (And Clinton used to come into Mass all the time just to vacuum up money. And Hillary still comes in here and holds those massive fundraisers. It's not her state. She should show some fucking gratitude, dammit.)

I know which Prez has caused endless problems for the Dems and laid the groundwork (pun intended) for the Rethugs having an easy time of calling Dems morally soft. And it sure as hell wasn't John Kerry. I think he has a little problem with gratitude and attitude. Somebody needs a reminder that he never got a plurality of the vote in his two races so where does he fucking come off telling anyone how to win a majority of the votes. Oh, and Kerry got soemthing like 12 million more votes than Clinton ever got so he can bite me.

[wisteria]

37. 2005 and I have had it with them both! We have three years to go!

You know what, damn the party, I will not vote for her, primary or general election.I still am not convinced she has a real chance.I can't believe I donated money to her senate run in 2006. She won't get anything else out of me. This is political war! They think they are going to be smarter and quicker than everyone else.They think they have the upper hand. I got news for them the center is going to be very crowded. And if they think they can paint Kerry as soft on security they are mistaken. It is their security position that is murky. If Bill thinks he can make Hillary over into a real hawk (and possibly have Zell vouch for her) he is mistaken. The party is changing and Bill and Hillary are going to be over exposed real soon. We may even experience Hillary burnout. Let them try to run, they may just get smacked down once and for all and our party can put the Clinton's in the past actually redefine itself and reach out and grow. The Clinton's are nothing except being all about power and wealth!