what the fuck ?

[JI7]

when the fuck did Hagel calling the iraq war a mistake, when the fuck did he call for withdrawal ? on the other hand Kerry has done a lot more in offering a plan for withdrawal and went after BUsh many times for fucking things up.

i know Hagel has recently followed the lead of Ted Kennedy and other Democrats in criticizing BUsh but he sure hasn't done anything such as call for withdrawal.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4403603

[rox63]

1. Hagel's positioning himself for a presidential run

He's trying to put some distance between himself and this disaster of a war. What I want to know is why are folks on Democratic Underground praising Hagel and still bashing Kerry?

[JI7]

2. they aren't really Democrats

based on the posts of these people their agenda is to tear down the Democratic Party. the poll which showed they would vote for Hagel over Hillary showed that.

there is a thread in LBN on something good Kerry is doing with a bunch of Kerry bashing replies while a thread in GD Politics complains about Kerry not doing anything.

[Mass]

3. Not sure what Hagel said the other day in the Situation Room

but if these people do not understand that Hagel is not transparent here and that he will continue to vote for Bush and his war whatever happens, they should be ashamed of calling themselves informed.

Hagel's position on this war is probably very close to Kerry's, except he has talked more these last weeks. For the rest, that thread is for the vast majority a group of either very ill-informed or very dishonest people (may be dillusional too).

[Mass]

4. Here is what Hagel said - as I was suspecting, exactly what Kerry has been

saying all alone.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/18/hagel.iraq/

Hagel did say he agrees with President Bush that the United States should not set a timetable for troop withdrawal, but he also predicted the United States would begin "withdrawing troops from Iraq next year."

"I don't like time frames because it gives the president no flexibility, and I think you always must have flexibility in these things and a judgment call by the president," he said.

Ultimately, he said, it's up to the Iraqis to control their nation's fate.

[TayTay]

5. Stepping on your own best argument

Call them on their bullshit.

Chuck Hagel has a history. And it concerns owning a company that makes voting machines. And it's not pretty.

So: Are some nuts in DU united in hating even the appearance of election fraud or are they so over-the-top mental about the war that they are ready to jump into bed with a guy who might have done what was done in Ohio.

Call these bozos on their bullshit.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0131-01.htm

"The respected Washington, DC publication The Hill (www.thehill.com/news/012903/hagel.aspx) has confirmed that former conservative radio talk-show host and now Republican U.S. Senator Chuck Hagel was the head of, and continues to own part interest in, the company that owns the company that installed, programmed, and largely ran the voting machines that were used by most of the citizens of Nebraska.

Back when Hagel first ran there for the U.S. Senate in 1996, his company's computer-controlled voting machines showed he'd won stunning upsets in both the primaries and the general election. The Washington Post (1/13/1997) said Hagel's "Senate victory against an incumbent Democratic governor was the major Republican upset in the November election." According to Bev Harris of www.blackboxvoting.org, Hagel won virtually every demographic group, including many largely Black communities that had never before voted Republican. Hagel was the first Republican in 24 years to win a Senate seat in Nebraska.

Six years later Hagel ran again, this time against Democrat Charlie Matulka in 2002, and won in a landslide. As his hagel.senate.gov website says, Hagel "was re-elected to his second term in the United States Senate on November 5, 2002 with 83% of the vote. That represents the biggest political victory in the history of Nebraska."

What Hagel's website fails to disclose is that about 80 percent of those votes were counted by computer-controlled voting machines put in place by the company affiliated with Hagel. Built by that company. Programmed by that company."