According to CNN , Kerry and Teresa are

[saracat]

with the Hollywood people to greet the Dali Lama. Is this a good thing? I truly don't know. What do the rest of you think? On one hand, I admire the Dali Lama, and on the other, I think the RW media could use this as a "Hollywood elite" excuse and it might diminish the seriousness of his response to 9-11. But then, they can twist anything so maybe it doesn't matter. I just felt a little uncomfortable when they where playing the clip and referring to Kerry as among the "celebrities". I prefer to have him referred to as a statesman!:)

[globalvillage]

1. He was at Hunter Thompson's 'send-off'.

I think John needs to be who he is and not worry about the spin. If it does happen, though, he needs to kick some ass. You know, somewhere deep down, I wonder if he's not hoping for it so he can respond.
Besides, it's a spiritual event, and I'd guess all the good RW 'Christians' attended at least one of those today.
As for the label, I think you can be a celebrity and a statesman at the same time. I actually like "rock star", but probably not the best image for him.
;)

[saracat]

2. Actually, they use "rock star" quite a bit when it comes to Clinton!

and it hasn't hurt him any!:) But oddly, they never attempted to make Clinton superficail either!

[karynnj]

4. Actually they did

The difference is that Clinton was President. Also, they had more obvious targets to go after with Clinton.

[saracat]

6. Also they tried more to make Clinton look amoral than a lightweight.

It is awfully odd that they criticize Kerry for beong "too serious and intellectual" and then paint him a jet set socialite! Duh! What is wrong with this picture!:)

[Mass]

9. Dean and McGovern were also there

I am sure that this is the same thing for the Daili Lama. Kerry saw him during the campaign too if I remember correctly. It was not a big story.

[karynnj]

3. How can he be a celebrity and simultaneously have no charisma?

They have to choose? They always use the same word for Bill Clinton - we are living in a celebrity obsessed world.

I don't see the conflict with 911 - all over the country, people are going to baseball games, tennis games,theatre matinees, movies etc. This is not like it was in 2002.

He and Teresa have both worked hard to help the victims of the hurricane, to rebuild the Democratic party in addition to their jobs. The Dali Lama is an important spiritual leader, hearing him at this time wouldn't be all that bad. I'm glad they don't live calculated lives considering the political impact of doing perfectly reasonable things. Considering just the things we know of, this might be the first day he's taken in a long time to just do something he wants to.

[saracat]

5. I just got back from an Emily's List training session

and actually you DO need to live "calculated lives considering the political impact" of doing perfectly reasonable things. You are taught to NEVER stop thinking about the impact of what you do. That is how you get elected. If Kerry had thought more about that (though I thibnk the election was stolen anyway!)He wouldn't have put himself in some of the positions that were used against him.

I would much rather have him be president than admire him for doing what he wants to do, regardless of the perception. but that is JMHO. I believe in spin control.

[Mass]

8. I think they thought too much about that. on the contrary

and sometimes. Kerry came out as unnatural because they were trying to hide to make him look what he was not and say things he was not comfortable saying whether he believed them or not (speaking about religion, for example).

If Kerry had decided not to go there to control his image, you can be sure that the spin would be exactly that: he did not go because he wants to be president. Sometimes, authenticity pays.

[saracat]

10. And this I can agree with . However, I think the Kerry people had lousey

spin control. It wasn't that they didn't have it but they did it poorly.And I can only hope they improve.But you are right on about what they did with his image. Kerry needed to be more Kerry.What I mean about spin control was the stupid windsurfing, duck hunting, misquotes ,and the Swiftboat fiasco. There was never a rapid response and Kerry was positioned where he never should have been.I actually don't know if the Dali Lama appearance is good or bad. I was just curious what others thought!

[Mass]

16. You are certainly right about spin control

particularly rapid response and particularly during the two conventions.

And duck hunting is certainly what I was thinking in my previous post. I know he is a hunter, but this did not ring true while the shooting rang true. (surfwinding is another story that I would put on the back of some of those dems that were never totally on board during this campaign and spent their time criticizing Kerry in the media - I dont know what could have been done with those).

[sandnsea]

17. It takes a village

For lack of a better phrase. The village has to help with rapid response and instead, our village had pow wows about whether to sacrifice the leader.

[globalvillage]

20. I agree with you both.

How's that for diplomacy?
Kerry needed to be himself. If being himself means windsurfing or duck hunting or being pals with HST or whatever in the hell else he does, then that would have been fine. There is nothing wrong with any of those things.
But he appeared 'managed' during the campaign, and it did not work to his benefit. I think that part of being himself would have been to react to the spin much better than he was 'advised'.
He said that the swift boating was pitiful (Rolling Stone?), which it was. That should have been the reaction, IMO. It was like the third grade, and he wasn't going there, but he should have pointed out that he wasn't going there, and made the juvenile delinquents look like exactly what they were. That was an opportunity lost.
If he had driven that home he could have turned it on them, and we'd most likely be talking about President Kerry.
JMHO.

[Mass]

22. I agree with you - that was exactly my point but you explained it better

I often thought that the campaign did not let Kerry be Kerry, unfortunately.

[karynnj]

26. In fairness, compare Bush and Kerry

Even restricting the comparison to the campaign, Bush did far more things that should have had an impact. His behavior in the first debate alone should have eliminated him. He should have been eliminated from the point where he branded other students. If Kerry would have done this, we might have never heard of the SBVT, just many psychologists declaring that he had some personality disorder.

There is no campaign now and there is nothing wrong, illegal, immoral or anything else with going to listen to the Dali Lama, especially if they went to mass this morning. You could criticise him more for going to see thee Rolling Stones! (But if he doesn't see the Stones and Bruce, they will say he's an elitist!)

[kerrygoddess]

7. They've met the Dalai Lama before

He's one of the greatest spiritual leaders of our times. Who the Dalai Lama is transcends the Hollywood elite excuse. Just my 2 cents.

[blm]

11. Plus, Kerry is a STUDENT of world religions and how they effect their

cultures and their influence on official governments.

I think that SHOULD be a major consideration as a show of thoughtfulness in ANY foreign policy move.

[saracat]

13. Great point!

[saracat]

12. I would hope you 're right. I think he does.

but I wouldn't bet on Fox News thinking so! I just didn't like the dismissive nature of the news comment.

[Mass]

14. Do you think that FOX would say anything nice about a dem

The choice is between being ignored and having a nasty comment. Not sure what is worse.

[saracat]

18. Didn't mean Fox literally!

But actually some of the affiliates DO say nice things occasionally about Dems. In fact, quite a few local Fox anchors ARE Dems, so one never knows!

[sandnsea]

15. More than Fox News

JK's Dalai Lama references generally don't win him many compliments amongst a certain segment of our society, even a certain segment of DUers. But perhaps with Katrina in people's minds, the ones we might hope to reach will take a look at their biases when hearing of the Dalai Lama visit. We just can't keep ignoring or ridiculing those different from ourselves, whether it's racial or spiritual or cultural.

[politicasista]

19. That doesn't bode well..

for people in Middle America or another campaign run does it? I have heard of Dali Lama, but the media might try to spin it as just another reason why Kerry is out of touch with the rest of America. Am I wrong?

[sandnsea]

21. Well...

hard to say. We've got to grow up as a country and respecting people like the Dalai Lama would be a good place to start. I read an article that the Governor of Idaho was having some students see the Dalai Lama and others write essays, that stirred up some controversy. But we'll see. Idaho is the reddest state in the country, if we can break through there, who knows where it will lead.

[Mass]

23. I dont know, may be the next campaign should be to show America is not

this intolerant and retarded country the media show us every day.

There are plenty of good and open people everywhere, but the media has decided one and for all that these people do not exist, that they can not understand sentences of more than two words.

May be it is time for somebody or some group to show how they despise average america and want to dumb it down. I remember this presentation by Cindy Crowley on how Kerry was elitist because in Dubuque (IA) he asked for green tea. After verification, green tea was available at Kmart in Dubuque.

May be this would require more modern means like internet conferencing to reach more people without the media, but who knows. If I was living in the South or the Midwest, I would be offended by the way politicians and media are depicting me.

[karynnj]

24. Cindy Crowley is the elitist for underestimating the intelligence of

people outside her elite group. Green tea has been recommended for health reasons in so many magazines - some very very non-elite.

[saracat]

25. As Kerry was recuperating from cancer and green tea is an antioxident

Crowley made herself look as stupid as she is. She was trying to make it look like a speacial blend or something "gourmet".

[beachmom]

27. If they met with a Scientologist, I would agree

but the Dalai Lama is a great spiritual leader (from an old tradition, right?). He wasn't going to see some crackpot new age guru or something. What a double standard that * could meet w/ Pat Robertson, a man who called for the assassination of a democratically elected president in Venezuela, but I am sure that once people forget about it, he'll be invited back to the WH as usual, and the MSM won't say a word.

Of course, I'm not as politically minded as Saracrat, who is indeed in the political biz, so you may well be right that every minute of your life has to be viewed in how it "looks". But Kerry has always refused to do this, sometimes to his detriment, like his "wild, single" days when he was going out having fun after working 18 hour days in the Senate. He said back then, that he had "his time" that he felt should be separate from his public life. *, in that sense, is highly disciplined in keeping up his image, but as a psychologist pointed out once, * appears not to be having fun EVER, while Kerry exhibited "exuberance". Sorry, I want a real person in the WH. And the more REAL he (or she) is, the better. When you are yourself, and allow yourself to do things that bring you true pleasure (as opposed to instant gratification that comes from addictions OR always doing what you SHOULD be doing), you will think more clearly in your work. And you'll be able to think of others, if you have had the decency to nurture yourself once in a while. That was what annoyed me so much about * on his vacation in Crawford. He talked about a balanced life, but I don't see how talking about how "disciplined" you are working out 2 hours a day is having a "balanced life". It's almost like * spends all his time doing what he SHOULD be doing, instead of what he WANTS to do, and then you wonder why he has absolutely no empathy whatsoever for a mother who lost her son in Iraq or for poor and stranded people in New Orleans. I just think * doesn't really like himself much. Therefore, he can't possibly have the ability to care about others.

If JK is going to get some insights from the Dalai Lama, I say go for it.

[karynnj]

28. Bush's inability to understand the mother's natural feeling

may be that his model for "mother" is not one any of us would care to have. I don't think Bush kept to his role better, he never appeared before a crod that would not accept anything he did.

[Island Blue]

30. To me Shrub is like a product that has been marketed and sold

just like Corn Flakes are marketed and sold. Corn Flakes are pretty damn boring, but advertise them using a talking rooster and bingo - people will buy them. John Kerry is much more complicated than a box of Corn Flake and because of that it's much harder to market and sell him. Personally, this is one reason that I find his persona so attractive. (Forgetting for a moment his politics.) He surrounds himself with interesting people, and he seems to thrill in the fact that he can learn from people from all walks of life. I love how he not only seeks out new experiences, but also seeks to MASTER what he learns. I think for some people, someone with so much curiosity for life is difficult to understand, because they prefer the comfort of their never changing Corn Flake life.

[globalvillage]

37. Thanks for that.

I'll never be able to eat Corn Flakes again.
bush*=flake. I love the double entendre.

[globalvillage]

34. I never understood why she insulted IA.

I know she intended to insult JK, but it was really more of a slam to Iowans(?), don't you think? It's not like they live on pork rinds and yoo hoo. She's such an ass.
You make a very valid point. If I lived in Iowa (I wouldn't), I'd have been pissed.

[sandnsea]

47. Green tea in Arkansas

Yes they have it, and yes they make fun of any man who drinks it. Just ask my husband, who is 6'3" which is just big enough for it not to become tooo much of an issue.

[TayTay]

29. I don't think it matters much right now

The Dalai Lama occupies one of those special spots that is part spiritual leader, part political entity. He speaks for the denied nation of Tibet and for a form of Buddhism. People meet with him for all sorts of reasons. I think Kerry would take as much damage from meeting him as he did from going to Rome for the Pope's death and funeral.

I don't think Middle America would notice. Not unless Kerry shaved his head, donned saffron robes and started an Ashram. Then, it would be really newsworthy rather than rate a scrawl at the bottom of the screen. This is the kind of 'celeb' news that fades quickly.

However, the criticism of Bush and his Admin is getting pretty harsh. Now that should merit some positive and negative press.

[globalvillage]

31. Damn, Tay Tay. Not the hair!

Are you crazy, woman? Even the thought is just... well, it's just WRONG.

[TayTay]

32. Oh, sorry, my bad

I forgot about the taboo about the hair. (One must never dismiss the perfect hair or harm it in any way. Rules for Kerry Foum # 105.)

Sorry. Forty lashes with the wet noodle for me. It was difficult for me to imagine Kerry going through basic training and not having that luscious head of hair. My post about, ahm, negative space instead of hair was uncalled for. You were right to chide me on it.

Mea culpa, okay?

[globalvillage]

35. LOL.

OK, so hair wasn't really the relevant point. I got that. You just shocked me a little. The guy does have great hair.

[Island Blue]

36. From "Tour of Duty"

"He didn't even look like himself anymore; the image that now stared back at him from the mirror every morning bore no resemblance to the Kennedyesque Yale debater he had been. John Kerry had been turned into the OCS version of a common grunt. Years later, he could joke about how bad he looked bullet-headed. "Big-time shaved, big-time shock, and big-time ugly" he laughed. "I was not meant to have no hair. God gave me a strange head shape, and baldness just doesn't work. It's not Bruce Willis's look at all that I had. It was an ungainly sight. I was miserable, glad that we weren't able to leave base. Going off base would have riot-shock value: cruel and unusual punishment to gazers.""

So I guess we don't have to worry about him shaving his head anytime soon - I seem to get the impression from the above passage that he really doesn't like the look on himself!

[globalvillage]

38. You think?

He does have fab hair. I actually have a similar story about taking my dog to the groomer, but I'm not too sure comparing my dog to JK would go over well, so I won't share.

[TayTay]

39. And I thought I was bad about the hair

Now you have to tell the dog story. You can't mention it part way and then say nevermind. It's postus interruptus. It's simply not done, my dear. And I have a dog. Ahm, he lives in MA, and that's my only connection to anything related to KErry, but I want to know this story now.

And I was truly contrite about that post. I should have mentioned something else that wouldn't have brought up such a shockingly disturbing image. Hmmm.

And oh, btw, are we just the girliest things on the planet or what? The world is in crisis, the Prez is finally revealed to the media as a buffoon and Mr. Kerry has been spotted looking hot and making hot speeches. And we are fearful about his hair. I don't think we can get any girlier than that. Not unless we discussed it on Oprah, with Dr. Phil present to ease our anxieties. ROTFLMAO!

[globalvillage]

40. Suffice it to say

that I don't think JK hid behind the toilet in the downstairs bathroom for a week after getting buzzed beyond recognition.
My poor Frisky. She was so ashamed. She's a Lhasa, but unlike us, not a girlie-girl. No bows, likes to roll in the dirt, plays with the neighbor boys. But the thought of being seen in public after that disaster of a haircut was just too much for the poor thing. And to top it all off, they had the nerve to paint her toenails. Red. (No Kerry parallel there, just an observation that's relevant to the haircut. Frisky's, not John's.) That's the first and last time I've used nail polish remover on a dog.
Poor thing was so traumatized, I couldn't get her to receive guests for weeks!
So, although I've never been shaved bald, my dog can relate to the embarassment of a very bad haircut.
I did once have a nasty color incident, though (peach).
But that's another story for another day.

[karynnj]

41. His sense of humor shines through here

It has to be hard going from attractive to ugly, if he was anywhere near as ugly as he says.

[TayTay]

42. But he still had those Navy Dress Whites, yes?

Please let me hold on to that. Just that. Those NAvy Dress summer whites are the best damn uniform ever made. I love those things. Men look so, ahm, good in them. And a good cap covers a lot.

[globalvillage]

43. Pour tu.

[Island Blue]

44. I'd imagine at the time of the unspeakable hair cut

he was probably wearing fatigues since it seems like it was some pretty down and dirty officers candidate training. But the Navy Dress Summer Whites is a very nice visual. As is a hot and sweaty John Kerry in fatigues. It's really a win win visual.

[fedupinBushcountry]

49. Navy whites

Umm, this is a bit embarassing, but I'll tell ya those whites do something, I don't know what it is. But everytime my husband had them on I just melted into his arms. We went to a dinner for our 20th class reunion, but we went to different high schools ( I went to Catholic, he went to public) and had to go to seperate dinners, all the schools met up after at an after dinner party. Well, I get there and there is my husband with his whites on, sitting with 5 women. Boy did I ever grab him quick.

So when I first saw a picture of Kerry in his whites, it was just one more reason (:blush: ) to choose him as a candidate.

[TayTay]

52. I agree. That is a snappy uniform.

This is my achilles heel, of course. It got 'discovered' in this group many months ago, when I was forced to admit that I kind of voted for Mr. Kerry originally, all those years ago, for state wide office when I remembered that he was a vet and I saw a pic of him in those dress whites. (In my own geeky defense, there wasn't that much political or policy difference between him and the other guy, so I had to base my decision on something. Damn. You spend a lifetime reading, looking things up, making sure you're on the side of the angels when it comes to voting and it comes down to this. Sigh :blush: )

I remember when the Navy changed the uniform in the 1970's. They dressed it down and made it look more like a thing fit to be worn at a Hawaiian luau than a dress uniform. My brother was home on leave for my cousin's wedding and she had specifically requested that he wear his whites. He did and she was very disappointed because they weren't crispy anymore. Thank gawd they changed them back.

(And I am not a tool of the military-industrial-complex. I am not. Honest. I just love that uniform.) :blush:

[paulk]

33. well, Bush met with the Dali Lama a few years ago

I don't remember how CNN spun that.

I do remember a photo from that meeting. Bush is kind of slouched back in his chair with one leg crossed over the other, his foot resting on his knee. His body posture absolutely radiates contempt.


What a piece of shit Bush is.

[globalvillage]

45. Amen (in keeping with the spiritual nature of this thread).

[sandnsea]

46. contempt

The only emotion to show when a Chrischun Murican Pacherut is forced to appease the liberal heathens with a meeting of one of their ungodly heroes.

And if we really don't understand that this is how a goodly portion of fly-over country views people like the Dalai Lama, then we don't understand anything yet.

[globalvillage]

48. I'm sure you're right.

Easy to play to your base when they're as soulless and/or ignorant as you. I'm guessing that the look of contempt was not 'hard work' for the shrub.

[sandnsea]

50. Know it and don't be bothered by it

That's the thing to me. I'm glad they met with the Dalai Lama, since they have a home in Sun Valley, it wouldn't surprise me to find out they had a part in bringing them there. But something like this is way too important to let political opinion sway you away from it and I wouldn't want Kerry to do that. Just like I wouldn't want him to not attend Hunter Thompson's send-off, despite the fact that World Net Daily chose to report it as "Kerry attends funeral with blow-up sex dolls." :eyes:

I mean how does the left, and Democrats, and Hollywood, have a candidate who was intimate friends with Hunter Thompson and not embrace him. Or the spirituality to meet with the Dalai Lama. Or the balls to do both and just not care about politics.

Way cooler than Bill Clinton playing a sax.

[kerrygoddess]

51. Considering it was sponsored by a Republican Gov

I doubt that the RW can spin it much. JK is not even mentioned in the news stories. I've been through about 10 of them tonight.

Also not that the Dalai Lama while considered a great spiritual leader is also considered the rightful leader of Tibet.

He really has nothing to do with "elitists" and anyone in the RW that thinks he does is clueless. Granted there are many clueless in the right-wing, but it's really a non-issue.

http://www.magicvalley.com/articles/2005/09/12/news_topstory/news_topstory.1.txt