Why the Blame Game is a pointless battle

[beachmom]

Over the course of this disaster, there has been partisan bickering which first started with anger against FEMA (reasonably so) and the federal gov. not being quicker to respond and then Rove sprung into action and began "the blame game" in earnest over the first weekend where everything was thrown onto the local and state officials (who were Democratic). If you haven't already read it, check out this Newsweek article which gives you an idea of what was happening at the WH:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9288079/site/newsweek/page/5/

When Hurricane Katrina struck, it appears there was no one to tell President Bush the plain truth: that the state and local governments had been overwhelmed, that the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) was not up to the job and that the military, the only institution with the resources to cope, couldn't act without a declaration from the president overriding all other authority.

Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco, a motherly but steely figure known by the nickname Queen Bee, knew that she needed help. But she wasn't quite sure what. At about 8 p.m., she spoke to Bush. "Mr. President," she said, "we need your help. We need everything you've got."

Bush, the governor later recalled, was reassuring. But the conversation was all a little vague. Blanco did not specifically ask for a massive intervention by the active-duty military. "She wouldn't know the 82nd Airborne from the Harlem Boys' Choir," said an official in the governor's office, who did not wish to be identified talking about his boss's conversations with the president. There are a number of steps Bush could have taken, short of a full-scale federal takeover, like ordering the military to take over the pitiful and (by now) largely broken emergency communications system throughout the region. But the president, who was in San Diego preparing to give a speech the next day on the war in Iraq, went to bed.

The denial and the frustration finally collided aboard Air Force One on Friday. As the president's plane sat on the tarmac at New Orleans airport, a confrontation occurred that was described by one participant as "as blunt as you can get without the Secret Service getting involved." Governor Blanco was there, along with various congressmen and senators and Mayor Nagin (who took advantage of the opportunity to take a shower aboard the plane). One by one, the lawmakers listed their grievances as Bush listened. Rep. Bobby Jindal, whose district encompasses New Orleans, told of a sheriff who had called FEMA for assistance. According to Jindal, the sheriff was told to e-mail his request, "and the guy was sitting in a district underwater and with no electricity," Jindal said, incredulously. "How does that make any sense?" Jindal later told NEWSWEEK that "almost everybody" around the conference table had a similar story about how the federal response "just wasn't working." With each tale, "the president just shook his head, as if he couldn't believe what he was hearing," says Jindal, a conservative Republican and Bush appointee who lost a close race to Blanco. Repeatedly, the president turned to his aides and said, "Fix it."

According to Sen. David Vitter, a Republican ally of Bush's, the meeting came to a head when Mayor Nagin blew up during a fraught discussion of "who's in charge?" Nagin slammed his hand down on the table and told Bush, "We just need to cut through this and do what it takes to have a more-controlled command structure. If that means federalizing it, let's do it."

Late last week, Bush was, by some accounts, down and angry. But another Bush aide described the atmosphere inside the White House as "strangely surreal and almost detached." At one meeting described by this insider, officials were oddly self-congratulatory, perhaps in an effort to buck each other up. Life inside a bunker can be strange, especially in defeat.

Of course, read the whole thing, but judging from what I have read and information gathered over the last few days, I don't find this to be partisan. The mayor is just as angry at the governor as he is at the president, and they are of different parties. And we all have to admit that state and local officials made mistakes. But a real leader would NEVER descend into a blame game. So I think that it is pointless for us Dems to engage in defending the mayor or governor vs. the president in some kind of Dem. vs. Repub. battle. Instead here are my 2 arguments:

1. Nagin is not my mayor and Blanco is not my governor. Bush is my president (okay, last sentence made me gag, but technically speaking, it is true). So my main concern is his utter incompetence, cluelessness, and ineptitude, since all 50 states have to rely on him during times of crisis. The people of NO and Louisiana can decide for themselves come election time if they want to boot the other two out of office.

2. Who had the most power and the most resources? Who could have cut through the red tape more quickly and effectively? Who wasn't effected by power outages, communications system breakdowns, and lack of supplies?

3. Of the three, Mayor Nagin seemed to have the most leadership skills. And the guy is a former Cox Communications executive, and this is his first political job!! This is not a huge endorsement of Nagin, but instead an indictment of the governor and especially Bush. Aren't the creme of the crop supposed to be at the top?

Tell me what you all think? There was a thread on DailyKos talking about Lakoff saying we were losing the "frame the blame game" debate (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/12/134354/069). And to me it's sad that so many Dems are investing in this fighting, because I think it's pointless. I like what Kerry has been saying because he is not engaged in any kind of blame game. He's focused on helping people and solving the problems (like underfunding of DHS and of poverty). And he is literally going there bringing supplies. The people don't want this infighting. They want to see LEADERS who don't have time to point fingers, and instead are grappling with the situation and constructing solutions.

I have had two fights with people on this blame game business, because I felt like any acknowledgement of local and state errors would somehow vindicate Bush. I realize I am wrong on this assessment. What was missing during Hurricane Katrina was a strong leader -- at ANY level of government. And the one who could have done the most at great speed, did the least.

P.S.
I'm not saying Bush is Hitler, but this reminded me of D-Day, June 6, 1944, when Hitler's aids were too afraid to wake him up when the invasion started. The panzer divisions could not move without the Fuehrer's order. By the time he woke up, priceless time had been wasted.
And at the end of the article, when they described the WH as a bunker. The whole thing is bizarre. I simply can't comprehend this president and this WH.

[ginnyinWI]

1. what we really need is leadership

And this prez sure ain't it! None of this bickering in the media about who is at fault is going to do much more than make some people feel better. Now an actual Congressional inquiry--that's more to my taste!

Still I'm very glad to see the media covering the story so thoroughly. And I think the WH's attempts to blame something or someone will come off to the public as what they are--sophomoric attempts at evading responsibility. If they are all alone as finger-pointers, they will look all the worse.

So what the Dem leadership can do is talk about answers--about what needs to be done, and as JK is doing, actually get whatever done that they have the power to do.

You are right about the LA governor and NO mayor--we are not their constituents. We do have a right to be dismayed at the behavior of our so-called president.

"But the president, who was in San Diego preparing to give a speech the next day on the war in Iraq, went to bed."

That kind of says it all, doesn't it? None of us is surprised, though.

[Island Blue]

2. When Blanco said to Shrub "We need your help.

We need everything you've got." Does anyone else think that maybe Blanco wasn't the only party in that conversation who wouldn't know "the 82nd Airborne from the Harlem Boys Choir"? In a time of extreme crisis (I consider a Cat 5 hurricane bearing down on a major US city an extreme crisis) shouldn't it be part of the President's job to suggest what military units could be at the Governor's disposal, so that she could then utter the magic words - "send me Company XYZ - Now!" That seems to be a major sticking point in all of this - no one uttered the precise words that would have unleashed the troops and saved the day. I'm sorry, but that's pathetic. Gee, I hope my Governor knows the magic words!

I think in the '06 and '08 campaigns, personal responsibility and government accountability should be the cornerstones of Democratic candidate's campaigns. Not "blame", that is such a childish word. I don't know how many Fundie Freepers those two words would attract (probably not many, and I have my theories about why) but it might attract some main-line Republicans who surely have to be as sick of some of this shit as we are.

[sandnsea]

3. I'm with Mary Landrieu

It'll be over my dead body that they try to lay this utter failure at the feet of the mayor or the governor, and if Bush keeps it up I'll be right behind her to punch him in the face.

Just my 2.

[TayTay]

4. I think Lakoff's a bit off

*'s poll numbers are atrocious. The Dems are not losing this debate. The so-called 'blame game' is what got the Rethugs elected to Congress in 1994, when they tripped all over themselves to 'blame game' Clinton for everything that was perceived to have gone wrong in the country.

This is not a 'blame game.' This is a serious moment in American history that will have repercussions for years to come. What any reasonable (nee - Democratic, of course) person wants to know is:

How did this failure of government happen? Will it happen again? What steps can be taken to make sure that America, on all governmental levels, is prepared for the next disaster?

How much is this going to cost? Where is the money going to come from and how is it going to be used? Is there a way to spend this money so that it props up a local economy that is in a shambles? Are Americans going to be asked to sacrifice in terms of foregoing new tax cuts or are we going to continue to put all new bills on the national credit card for succeeding generations to pay?

Democrats are not afraid of a full and complete investigation into all aspects of what went wrong in this disaster and the inadequate response to it. Americans sometimes have to ask tough and probing questions in order to get the answers they need to make sure tragedy isn't compounded by incompetence. Democrats welcome this opportunity to get all the facts on the record, make sure that all the actions taken and actions not taken are accounted for and that the persons who did well are rewarded and the people who didn't perform up to standards are dismissed. The Democratic Party stands behind this because it is the right thing to do for America. Sometimes, you have to rise above the partisan fray for the good of the nation. This is not a time to be protecting political appointees, it is a time to face the critics and prepare for an honest and full accounting of what happened. The nation should demand no less.

(It can be framed and we are oh, so close to the time to do so.) Oh, and by the way, NO FEAR. Do it because it is the right thing to do for the country, no matter whose ox is gored.

[Island Blue]

5. Very well said Tay Tay (as always)!

:applause:

[TayTay]

6. I love it when I get to go all noble and stuff.

Lakoff has jumped the gun a bit. We are still not out of the woods in terms of making sure that people are being cared for properly in the Gulfport area. Another few days and then .....

The Democrats should prepare to admit that mistakes were made at all levels. All levels. In a disaster this big and this unprecedented, it is impossible to think that mistakes weren't made. Democrats need to come forward and confess their sins in this. This has to be done in the interests of making sure that a full and reasonable accounting of all actions, and especially actions made on the tax payers dollar, are out in the public arena. (Dems ante up. Yup, we made some mistakes. We have to admit these, examine them, and move forward. Anything less is lying to the people.)

Now, it's the Feds turn. We must demand the same open and public investigation on the federal level that we are demanding on the local level. Americans died in this tragedy. We owe it to the dead and we owe it to those who will live with the scars of this event for the rest of their lives to figure out what went wrong and how to prevent it from going wrong in any future disasters. Of course, we ask that all Republicans join us in this effort to get to the truth and to give the American people an account of their government and it's actions. America demands answers and we must provide them. Any attempts to play partisan politics with this disaster and hide the truth for mere political gain is an outrage that the American people will not tolerate.

Hehehehehehe, put that in your pipe and smoke it. There is very little that the Rethugs can do when you play the 'all noble' card. hehehehehehe. They end up looking like cheap political whores if they refuse. And they might be revealed as cheap political whores if they agree, because their appointees were awful and incompetent. But the Dems offered, up front, to accept blame where it is due, thus keeping the Rethugs from playing the, "You did it too!" card. Again, hehehehehehe.

Everybody ante up; this game is getting real interesting. (And, of course, I am only talking about the politics of an investigation. And that is a purely political thing, sadly.)

[karynnj]

7. From the view point of the Republicans,

Kerry is engaged in the blame game. As you mentioned he is also working as an individual and as a Senator to help people. He is also proposing some forward looking solutions to prevent a recurrence there or elsewhere as far as the relief issues are concerned. But he also IS blaming FEMA for what he called almost criminal negligence (I assume this is very strong language from a former prosecutor).
He mentioned that Bush went to a fund raiser. The important thing is that he is criticising specific actions

As far as the blame game goes, the Republicans are the ones that put their echo chamber to work - all reciting the same points, all casting the blame (using almost the same words) on the mayor and Governor, making Bush out to be the patient, wise father figure, who finally calls his incompetent daughter (the Gov) and asks why she won't ask him for help. What's good is that it is not working.

[TayTay]

8. It is a weak argument.

Seriously, it is a very weak argument. Look at it critically. This argument is designed to get the Dems to shut up and stop nagging the Rethugs about what went wrong. That's got a snowballs chance in hell of working. Let's follow it out:

Blame Game means that we shouldn't talk about what went wrong. It is the responsibility of Congress to have oversight on the actions of the federal government. Not asking for simple accountability is a dereliction of duty under the Constitution of the United States. Not only that, but it plants the suspicion in the mind of *enough* of the public that someone is hiding something. And it sure as hell isn't the Dems. (Please have just one Dem get up, next week, and say this simple statement. "I took an oath to uphold the Constitution. That Constitution mandates that I, in my capacity as a federally elected official, make sure that the government does what it says it is going to do. I would be denying that oath if I tried to sweep any misdeeds by this government under the table. I cannot do that to the American people." I think it's a winnah.

Again, this is a weak argument. It worked in Iraq, but that was because * still had his magic cloak of invincibility on from 9/11. He no longer does. At all. It's open season baby.

[karynnj]

12. I agree that it is important that the Democrats

to continue to demand accountability. You are 100% right that it is their job to do so. If his Morristown stop was typical, he is using the word accountability frequently.

"To hold accountable" is a phrase that is a positive version of "blame" which the Republicans are trying to use and to give a new character to. In normal english, blaming someone for negligence that really happened - even now Brown is saying that FEMA is not an agency of first responders - is not only reasonable, but necessary. In Bush language, blame equals whining, childish finger pointing and not working together. To hold accountable has connotations of law, ethics, and even morality.

Any Senator you have in mind to say something along the lines of what you said? I think the people who are referring to it as a blame game, are missing the point - this is NOT politics and it most certainly isn't a game. This is the real consequence of the true RW agenda that leaves people to fend for themselves. FDR got his programs only because the need for government was obvious to everyone hurt by the depression. Here, even the wealthiest person in N. O. couldn't protect themselves - only government could restore the area ecologically and strengthen the levees.

Kerry is amazing in that he is responding in so many ways to help those in need immediately and in the long term, to offer solutions to mitigate the hardship when these disasters happen in the future and to demand accountability. The first two things (and his being right last year), give him position to do the latter. His prosecutor style works perfectly for this - tough questions asked in a calm voice.

[ginnyinWI]

15. now I can put my finger on it

This all seemed so familiar--this Rove strategy-- and now I know why.

It's like "flip-flop". He took the concept of changing one's mind on things, which can be a good thing sometimes, and made it 100% negative by attaching a label and deriding it. Sometimes it is a bad thing to change your mind or position constantly--but sometimes it is imperative, as when new facts come to light.

Okay so now the idea of finding out who was incompetent and who had very bad judgement and who failed to do his/her duty to the nation and who failed to do his/her job, and made doing that, assigning well-earned blame, a BAD thing, because his guy is in the crosshairs and everyone knows it. We aren't schoolkids pointing fingers at someone on the playground here. This is serious stuff and totally merits an investigation--when the time is right.

I suppose Rove thinks if they can frame it as bad to assign responsibility that they will get away with it. Well, it's a weak hand to have to play, but it's all they've got.

[foreverdem]

9. I'm sick of the 'blame game'

This is no game. The American people are not looking to place blame, we want accountability. The loss of life of thousands and a city underwater is no part of any kind of game. But this administration will never take any accountability for anything bad that happens. It's always someone else's fault, although they are the ones at the helm and making the disastrous decisions.

[TayTay]

10. Ah, there's the rub

And the consistent thread of criticism against both the Bush Administration and the Republican Congress: no one is in charge and no one is ever held accountable when something goes wrong.

Again, there is a consistent line of attack on this. The Iraq War was a planning disaster that should have resulted in the resignations and firings of scores of appointees in the Bush Admin. There should have been massive hearings on Capitol Hill to figure out what went wrong and why. The various House and Senate committees that deal with contracts and appropriations should have held hearings and used their subpoena powers to force the Pentagon and other governmental officials to account for the actions. It was not done.

Nothing has changed. The White House and the Republican party do not want to be held accountable to the American people for any errors that they have made in planning for disasters. The FEMA response to the tragedy in the Gulf port area is a national disgrace. The American people have the right to ask what went wrong, how can it be fixed and how much will it cost. The Bush Admin and the Republican Party are afraid to answer this call because it will reveal the corruption that lies at the heart of their neo-con agenda.

It's the corruption, baby. Corruption, cronyism and incompetence are the hallmark of the governing party. Their arrogance landed us in Iraq under false pretenses and their arrogance contributed to the horrors and death in the Gulf port area. And they continue to hold themselves above the law and above the scrutiny of the American people. It's the corruption, baby, as it always has been with these people.

Accountability, responsibility and telling the truth to the American people. Why won't the Bush Admin and the GOP allow investigations to go forward? What are they hiding from us anyway?

[beachmom]

11. The political vs. the practical

I think the Dems should focus more on the practical. What went wrong and how to fix it. They should save the political for next year. I've been thinking about this more, and I realize that I don't mind hearing about how the mayor or governor made mistakes, unless . . . the source is the f**king WH!!

From Wayne Dyer:

When you judge others, this says nothing about them, but instead we learn only that you are a person who needs to judge.


On Karl Rove and the smear campaign against Local/State Officials:

When you blame others, you are teaching us nothing about them. But we are learning that you are an administration that feels the need to blame others, and not admit your own mistakes.


But you know, even if people buy the entire smear campaign, they're still left with an empty feeling. That feeling that in spite of everything, the president could have done something early on, saved the day really, and instead he went to bed.

As far as the political side, I actually think this is an opening for Independents and people not connected too closely with either party (I'll hat tip bullmooseblog.com for this). A centrist Dem or moderate Repub could take it and run with it. Basically, that there is a place for government in this country, an extremely important place. One could rail against Democratic corruption in NO and Republican corruption in Washington. One could say that the era of conservatism, "government is the problem", is over. How do I know this? Well, there were a couple of bright points in this mess -- a LA state run program to create a Surge Hospital worked very well, the Coast Guard and the Fishery (?) worked well, and once the military showed up, they've done a good job, too. If we turned FEMA into a premiere agency where it was an honor to work there, then things would change. Government CAN work, if it is given the respect and funds it deserves.

[karynnj]

13. I'm not convinced it has to be or should be a Centrist Dem Or Moderate Rep

It does have to be someone who is able to calmly and coherently translate what specifically went wrong to the more generalized conclusions we can learn about this. By examining everything from the neglect of the infrastructure, not insuring the environmental stability of southern LA, the lack of any coherent plan for which roles should be played by the federal, state and local governments, and the complete ineptness of the emergency response, changes can be suggested for the future.

I think you need someone who sees government as a force for good, not something to minimize as much as possible. It is the liberal side of the spectrum that has passion for making government succeed. I think a moderate Republican might decry the incompetence - but would actually fight against the current surge in people's demands that government do something.

I think Kerry might be the best person. All year, people have said Kerry shouldn't talk on this - it would be sour grapes. This is a bogus argument that says that because he lost, the Democrats should lose one of its smartest, most compassionate, most statesman like leaders. This is an issue that really does fit him, and he is not playing politics, but leading on dealing with the crisis and making suggestions for fixing this in the future.

[TayTay]

14. I agree. This role fits him like a glove

He has all those prosecutorial skills that he can use to ferret out what went wrong and hold someone responsible. And Kerry understands, intuitively, that it's not about glorifying him or anyone else politically. It's about the essential role of government in society and how that government functions. (Or doesn't function.) And it's about the bait and switch this Admin has used in the development of the DHS and how that re-org affected FEMA.

[beachmom]

16. Well, of course, Kerry is my choice, too!

But it's not just about presidential candidates, it's also mayors and governors, federal employees, and the more pragmatic they are, and the less ideological, the better. FEMA had turned into a public relations firm, more concerned in how it "looked" than actually doing disaster relief and rescuing. I guess I am liberal in the sense that I think that without government, society collapses, and that instead of disrespecting and underfunding government (well, there's been a lot of government spending, but allocated to the wrong places, it seems), it should be seen as what it really is: the nuts and bolts that make the country run. How could you run or start a business if there were no roads, law and order, a judicial system, laws, property rights, currency policy and so on. As I said before, conservative ideology, as defined by the Reagan Revolution, is dead. When he said government is the problem, it was just a line that sounded good to many, but now that we see the reality of it, it doesn't sound so good, does it?

But government shouldn't be some giant, lumbering dinosaur. People who respect government's role in society should be in charge. And government should be properly funded. And government should also be very nimble and efficient. What works? Well, do that. Maybe decentralized government works better (i.e. make FEMA a stand alone agency, not so closely controlled by DHS). I think this is a little different from traditional liberalism. It'a a new liberalism -- don't drown government down the bathtub, make it better, make it prestigious.

Or is that really old fashioned liberalism a la JFK and FDR? Kerry is definitely the one to speak about this and put it into practice. He's always been a bit old fashioned about some things, like old virtures like honor, respect, quiet strength, manners. Shall I go on?

[TayTay]

21. It's non-machine based liberalism

Whaaaa? Liberalism always had many branches. One that has become less and less important as people have moved in substantial numbers out of the city is the 'machine-style' form of liberalism. (Remnants in Chicago under Mayor Daley, not withstanding.)

This form of liberalism, and it was liberalism, padded the payroll and gave people jobs. It was a fairly decent way of redistributing power and influence in it's day, but that day has passed. (And it was prone to the worst of xenophobia, scapegoating and freezing out unpopular groups. Sigh!)

Now we all want to be good little doobies and have efficient, streamlined government that allocated under a system that rewards work and knowledge.Yup, there is good and bad here too. The meritocracy can freeze out change, freeze out those who aren't just like it and so forth.) This is liberalism with a purpose beyond just getting everyone a job and getting the power more evenly distrubted. It's that noble kind that supposed solutions. It's achilles heel is sometimes perceived as a lack of passion and a lack of identification with people at the grassroots. It can be great and can produce great and efficient government. It can also be attacked as a bloodless form of government. (No passion.)

I think we need a fusion of different styles. Hmmm, activism, demand for accountability and responsibility within and a clearly defined list of goals to be set and met. And the absolute devotion to the goal of getting mroe damn people to the table to start with.

[sandnsea]

17. You have to expose their smear campaigns though

First of all, I just don't know how long we all have to pretend to that something like a Democrat who loses a telephone number can be compared to a Republican President who loses a whole city. There is a difference between condemnation and discernment. We are supposed to discern competence from incompetence, lies from critiques, crooks from honest error. Discernment is not blaming.

I also have no clue why it would take an independent or moderate would have to run with this, because that's where the worst of what's happened in the last 25 years has festered really. People who won't take a stand and let themselves be bullied into the "government is the problem" mentality. Blanco's hiring of Kenyon today refelcts the problem with moderates precisely, they still don't get the influence of the corporate sector on government and that that influence is what is corrupting our country.

This is a time for rank and file Democrats to stand up and fight for the balanced government that we have really believed in all these years. Part of that will necessarily mean calling these Limbaugh Liars what they are, cheap labor, corrupt, crony conservatives.

[beachmom]

18. At first I was worried about this smear campaign, but not anymore

I don't know. The local officials have said already that they could have done things differently. They made mistakes. Once again, I say the Rove smear campaign is pretty darn pathetic. It's amazing but as nasty as the SBVT campaign against JK last year was, this one really takes the cake. The fact that the mayor got out there and talked about everything, and was pretty darn gracious regarding the president (he went after the generic FEMA instead) made Bush look bad. Rove wants us to defend the local Dems. Sorry, I'm not going to do it because they made mistakes, too, but only an idiot would assign all the blame to the weakest governments with the least amount of resources. Now that Bush said he accepts responsibility for the federal gov.'s lack of response, it seems to me that the smear campaign failed.

I also will add that I live in VA with a tropical storm/hurricane headed our way (although more near Island Blue), and in that sense, it doesn't interest me if the LA governor or NO Mayor share in the Katrina disaster blame. But FEMA interests me a great deal. I have faith in Gov. Warner, not sure what I think of the VB mayor, but I know for sure not to count on FEMA AT ALL. They're useless, and this president is useless.

[beachmom]

19. Okay, Rove, now what are you going to do?

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Nonpartisan_congressional_research_report_finds_Louisiana_governor_took_nece_0913.html


Well, I will admit when I am wrong. Looks like the governor has been vindicated, at least for her actions at the beginning. The State asked the Feds for help BEFORE the storm started, that they would be overwhelmed. Holy sh*t. This is big. For a week, I thought that the governor had been wishy washy, when it ends up she got it right. Holy f**k. This means that Bush is in unbelievable trouble, which was why he accepted responsibility as a pre-emptive strike. And Kerry's comments on the other thread in response were because he knew about this report. The disaster was in Bush's hands. No confusion. It was in his hands. And he blew it. His presidency is over.

[sandnsea]

22. In so many ways

They keep saying the evacuation plan called for bussing people out. It didn't, it called for bussing people to a "shelter of last resort", in those word. Also, there WAS food and water delivered to the Superdome, enough for 15,000 people for 3-4 days; in addition to Nagin calling for people to bring food and water. The convention center came up after the flood. The only problem I see is Nagin being just like so many other people in this country, bamboozled into believing any hype against Democrats which led him to think Blanco was playing politics when she was just trying to get the help into the state the way it was supposed to be delivered. And Bush being slow to recognize the disaster, slow to respond when he did, and wishy washy himself on whether to federalize under the Insurrection Act or just send in the troops like Blanco requested. HE failed, in addition to FEMA.

Not to offend you BeachMom, but alot of us have known about the memo before the hurricane struck for a very long time.

[beachmom]

23. I thought that this Conyers report was new

Sandy,

I thought that this was a nonpartisan report that just came out yesterday (9/13) which CONFIRMS that the governor did everything with the correct protocol prior to the storm. I thought this was brand new. I first read it on andrewsullivan.com and talkingpointsmemo.com on 9/13. They said it was new and bolstered her case. You're right that the WaPo already had to retract misinformation from the WH about when she declared a state of emergency but I thought that this Conyers report was the final nail in the WH's "don't blame us, the governor didn't ask for help" file. Please let me know, because I want to make sure I understand this all correctly. Thanks

Beachmom

[sandnsea]

24. The report is based on facts

The report may be new, but the facts about the State of Emergency and the memos and declarations have been posted for a long time. Maybe we're talking about two different things. :shrug:

[beachmom]

25. I double checked -- it's a Conyer's report published 9/13

But you're right. It is based on previous info that has already been out there. However, since it is nonpartisan I think it carries more weight. Andrew Sullivan had been bashing Blanco for days (although his most scathing opinions were for Bush), and he seemed to be convinced from this report that she had done things right, before the storm anyway. Josh Marshall from TPM also was impressed with the report. That's why I thought it was significant. I'll post the links.

[sandnsea]

26. An official report is always helpful

I was just saying that I don't think it actually revealed anything that wasn't known, although I could be wrong. I have to go back and read some press releases, etc., because I remember reading about Bush waivering on the Insurrection Act which would also federalize the effort. I disagree with Josh Marshall on Chertoff and federalization, my issue is that they were holding up help while trying to federalize when all they needed to do was just SEND HELP, like they're supposed to. This federalization stuff is a straw man, IMHO.

[beachmom]

27. Here's the link

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2005_09_11.php#006524


I also have a link further up in this thread from Raw Story which gives a summary (Josh's link is the actual report, which is a pain to look at). Josh says it's significant because it's nonpartisan.

I completely agree with you on this whole federalization thing. It seems like a technicality -- a straw man, like you said.

But as I said above, let's assume that the locals made all of these mistakes as the WH claims. Isn't that like if a dirty bomb went off and took everyone by surprise? The locals would probably be completely paralyzed with such a horrendous attack. Who now thinks the Feds could come in quickly and save the day? With Katrina, the Feds had everything going for them, and they failed. So they can point fingers all they want at the locals. They still look weak as hell to me.

[karynnj]

20. I don't know if I am making too much of it, but Kerry

asked the crowd in NJ to expect things to get nasty in the Gov race and to take it as our job to find the truth and counter things said by talking to our friends and neighbors.

Intuitively, if enough of us go out of our way to counter the lies, we can minimize their success.