I wonder if anyone else had the same thoughts

[whometense]

today. I hesitate to post this, as I was thrilled to see so many people show up in DC. Cindy Sheehan always moves me to tears. I loved Ramsey Clark's speech. I honor Will Pitt and his activism.

But then there were others. There was an African community activist who got up on stage and exhorted everyone to shout "Free Palestine" and something about intifada while marching. The c-span camera panned the crowd while she was talking, and I saw a stony-faced couple in the crowd. I pretty much felt the same way.

There was a thread over in GD today that pretty much encapsulated how I felt as well. Someone said, ANSWER muddies the waters. They do. Someone said, if this rally had been only about ending the war, and minus all the other issue sideshows, they could have had Kerry, Dean, Boxer speaking today. The message would have been louder and clearer.

Like I said, this is confusing and I have very mixed feelings. I am so thrilled that all those people were there. And yet...

Oh - and the ultimate irony. Ralph f***ing Nader. Talking about how evil Bush is. Yeah, Ralph. And yet you helped put him there.

The thread is here, if anyone's interested. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4871085

[rockymountaindem]

1. I know...

I would never ever knowingly go to a rally where any of the speakers were going to focus on a "free Palestine" message. If I ever went to something like the protest today and a speaker like that showed up, I would leave.

"Free Palestine" is not the issue today. I've debated the Israeli/Palestinian conflict a lot. I used to be a very vocal supporter of Israel, however I finally came to the conclusion that arguments on that issue aren't constructive. They always descend into hypotheticals, insults or off-topic rants. I still support Israel in my heart, though. I will not condone any rally by my presence which focuses on a "Free Palestine" message.

From what I've read here, I'm glad I didn't go to DC. I remember a campus protest on the one year anniversary of the invasion. I thought about going until I heard it was being organized by the "United workers of the world" (or something like that), the Muslim Students' associaiton and the Arab Student Collective. I oppose the war because it was a bad idea that has hurt America; not because I think America is an evil empire attempting to take over the world.

I didn't go to that rally, and I didn't go to the counterprotest because (1) it supported the war in Iraq and (2) it was organized by a bunch of conservative jerks. I'm very turned off by the whole scene.

[TayTay]

3. We aren't there yet in terms of an organized and focused protest

As we have pointed out, this movement lacks an articulate leader who can present an utterly 'normal' and 'respectable' image to mainstream American. This is a shame, but it is also predictable. The left has to realize that they are preaching to the converted at these rallies, which is nice and the converted do need to be rallied and energized, but we also need to connect on a visceral level with average Americans and make them feel a sense of connection with the protesters and a sense of hope that things can get better.

The Vietnam War started escalating in 1964 with the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. Kerry's protest happened in '71, seven years later. In between we had a lot of protests, but they engendered more a general sense of unease and of things falling apart than anything else. This present protest movement lacks a center. Cindy Sheehan is as close as we have come and she has flaws. These are not really her fault. She is what she appears to be, a Mom who lost a son and wants to know why. But she is not a politician and lacks political skills. This leaves her vulnerable to every lefty group that comes along and wants to take a piece of her fame for their own purposes. (This is not a good thing for Cindy Sheehan. It dilutes a very, very powerful message that does resonate with average Americans. Most Americans can't picture themselves as PETA or the 'Free Mumia' folks, but they can pretty easily imagine themselves as a Mom grieving for a lost son and her sense of outrage at a government that won't answer her central questions.)

Boy, when you see this and you see the fractious nature of the left, you really do appreciate the political skills of a young John KErry who somehow kept that angry group of veterans together in the '71 protest in DC. HE, and the other leaders of that group, did an amazing and, so far, not duplicated feat of keeping a very raucous and angry group of people from imploding and exploding into uselessness. What a rare thing to pull off.

[karynnj]

16. What is good is that last night those of us arguing

that it would be stupid for any politician to go to the rally were a large minority, but there were many additional people annoyed today by the prominence given to fringe issues. I think it did open some eyes. I hope it also makes them more skeptical towards the 60 radicals who were claiming that they were the ones who really changed opinions and Kerry just jumped onto their bandwagon.

Parts of Sheehan's speech also diminish her effectiveness by making her sound harsh and strident. Her appeal is to people's hearts, more than their heads so this hurts. In fact, this may make it harder for politicians to meet with her now.

Seeing how she is used, it does impress me more that Kerry had the strength to not let the then leaders of the anti-war movement control or mold him. I liked Bobby Mueller(?)'s comment in Going Upriver about how Kerry calmed them down and made them less angry and they needed that.

[globalvillage]

18. I am really, really glad

that Sen Kerry and the other Dems had the good sense to stay away after seeing this on C-Span.

[paulk]

4. you said it RMD

"I oppose the war because it was a bad idea that has hurt America; not because I think America is an evil empire attempting to take over the world."



:toast:

[ginnyinWI]

2. well yeah, I have

I watched some, then recorded the rest on the DVR, and then fast-forwarded through a lot of it. I was likewise puzzled about the "free Palestine" stuff and all that thrown into the mix. Kind of like they were exploiting the crowd, getting them to chant. I would have felt used if I had been there. It did muddy the message. And then Nader--I said the same thing to the TV: " but you helped put him in office!" He's one who doesn't see the forest for the trees.

I did like Ramsey Clark--what a trooper! He added quite a lot of legitimacy to the protest, as did some of the others. Was it Jesse Jackson who remarked about * having been put into office by a court and no popular vote, who then turned around and kicked Aristide out of Haiti, a leader with overwhelming popular support in his country? Wow.
I would have liked hearing a bit more substance, and a little less rage about Iraq. I wish there could have been somebody a little more moderate who is for a smart withdrawal--but that wouldn't have worked; that crowd was like most at DU, having no patience for nuance. I guess no rallies do.

[CBHagman]

5. These things tend to get messy.

The novelist John LeCarre, who is known to attend antiwar protests in the United Kingdom (I'm fairly certain he marched against Bush during the latter's oh-so-proud state visit), remarked that demonstrating means he runs the risk of marching next to Friends of Osama or some such thing.

It's always pretty messy during a D.C. event. Whether the issue is gun control, violence against women, or unnecessary wars, people with all sorts of agendas turn up. I guess the only thing to do is focus like a laser beam on the main message and try to keep as many people as possible focused on that.

[Island Blue]

6. I didn't get a chance to watch any of it today

but from what I've read, it does seem like there was a much bigger agenda than protesting the war in Iraq. I agree that the folks who just watch Cspan coverage at home might be very turned off by the whole event by seeing speakers who appear to be anti-American and waaay left of center.

It will be interesting to hear what the Kerry group folks who attended have to say. Sometimes what a person expediences by being there might not be at all what folks see by watching television. I look forward to hearing what they have to say.

[globalvillage]

8. Here's a picture thread

that explains it pretty well.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4875929

[Island Blue]

10. Thanks for posting GV - that pretty much says it all!

Glad you had a safe trip. Thanks for being a patriot and for marching! :yourock:

[whometense]

13. And that was what was

not shown on tv, What a shame.

[whometense]

12. In that other thread

there were a lot of comments about how c-span kept its cameras on the ANSWER rally, even though there were so many people there that they could barely march at all. People just ringed the entire march route.

Towards the end everyone had left the rally except for the diehards, to march and got to the concert/rally. It was hard to follow on tv. But for a curious middle-of-the-roader just turning on the tv to see what was going on, it must have been disconcerting to say the least to hear people saying they were communists.

[globalvillage]

15. The C-Span coverage was awful.

They should have covered the few big name speakers. Jesse, Cindy, etc., and then the march. If I had only watched this on C-Span, I would have been horrified. The reality, though, was the diverse group of many thousands of people protesting the war, not the message you saw on C-Span.
It would have been better had they not covered it at all.

[globalvillage]

7. What was shown on C-Span

was such a small part of what happened today.

This is closer to what I saw, and it's Yahoo, so it's what most of America will see and remember (I hope).
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050924/ap_on_re_us/war_protest

"In the crowd: young activists, nuns whose anti-war activism dates to Vietnam, parents mourning their children in uniform lost in Iraq, and uncountable families motivated for the first time to protest."


I heard Jesse, Cindy and George Galloway. I left when the rally turned into a platform for ANSWER, I had no reason to stay. But the march was wonderful. Young, old, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Dem, Green, Republicans (believe it or not), left, center, black, white...thousands and thousands and thousands of us.

It was good. It wasn't exactly what I would have hoped, but I didn't expect it to be. You take what you can get, I suppose.

For what it's worth, I agree that much of the rally was way over the top. I wish C-Span could have shown what was really happening today.

[TayTay]

9. This is wonderful!

It sounds like this might be a media split again. The media focuses on what makes colorful news and tend to ignore the ordinaryness of the people who show up. (This has always been the case.)

It sound like you found it to be a profound and moving experience. I'm very glad for this. The pics that I have seen are wonderful!

Congrats for going and for speaking out on this.

[globalvillage]

11. Thank you, Tay Tay.

I hate to feel removed from this group. The march, without all the fringe stuff, is something I think all of you would have been proud of. I think Sen Kerry would be, too. He didn't want this war. And although he could not have attended the march today, I believe he would agree with the overall message of peace.
Hey, you know JK speaks for me. Today, though, I spoke for myself.

[whometense]

14. I'd hate for you to feel removed from this group too,

and that was what I meant to convey in my original post. If I didn't, then I'm sorry.

It makes me angry that the cameras weren't showing the real story - thousands and thousands of regular people saying no to the war. It makes me angry that ANSWER took the limelight to the degree that people like Kerry didn't want to be seen there.

I've been reading Gerald Nicosia's Home to War, which is a complete history of the VVAW. The internal politics were fascinating and scary, and their implications reverberate today. Anyone who says Kerry protested the war as a means to jumpstart his political career is crazy. people to his left hated him, and people on his right hated him. And still do. There was no safe place in the Vietnam antiwar movement for a politician.

[globalvillage]

17. Good Lord, whome.

I'm watching the C-Span replay, and it gets worse as it goes on. Shit. Sorry, but this is just horrible.
THIS IS NOT WHAT I SAW TODAY.
No wonder you guys saw a different protest on TV than I did on the ground in DC.

This sucks. It really does.

:cry:

[whometense]

19. It really does SUCK.

I got some idea of what was really happening from reading Will Pitt's liveblog at PDA and reading around on DU, but I really had to work at it. CNN and MSNBC had all their resources poured into covering Hurricane Rita, and they were going to cover it all day long whether it turned out to be a story or not.

I hope we'll see some truth in the Sunday newspapers.

[globalvillage]

20. OK, by the end of the rally,

it looked like there were about nine people there. That makes me feel a little better.

[whometense]

24. They really did just melt away.

It was weird, because they kept apologizing that the march hadn't moved, and yet there seemed to be no one there! If I hadn't been reading Will Pitt I would have been really confused.

Anyway, nobody watches c-span, right?? ;-)

[TayTay]

21. I am sorry about this happening

It is very sad to see someting that you perceived as a hopeful thing be portrayed by the media as something else. But, take heart, the country is against the way this war is being carried out and against the way in which they were lied to by the current Admin.

The other positive is that the country hasn't turned against the veterans. This was a major problem with the Vietnam war. That is a good thing, as these folks are the ultimate victims of the war and the lack of support when they come home.

Did you get a feel for how the protests were going? By that I mean that there is a discussion going on as to when the troops should come home. A lot of people are advocating for a time table and a some what them home Now, or something. Any feel for that?

[globalvillage]

22. Mostly NOW.

But I think the majority would be satisfied with a plan that isn't "stay the course".
So tired. I'll try to give you something a little more substantial tomorrow.
It was a long, exciting, frustrating, exhilarating day.

[whometense]

23. Me?

I don't have any feel for that at all. I know there's a flurry of meet-with-Cindy activity. For me the most positive outcome of the day was the number of people who showed up in DC, and the outbreak of common sense on that DU thread.

You have to imagine people are talking behind the scenes. I hope the dems aren't so far gone in their 2008 dreams that they can't get together and form some kind of coherent strategy.

It's clear to me that Kerry's been waiting for this exact moment. He knew it was coming, and he knew what he was going to say when it arrived.

It seems like it caught a lot of the other dems flatfooted. Some are still acting as if the status quo hadn't shifted.

[ginnyinWI]

25. that's good to know.

I'm glad to hear that it was better than what we watched on Cspan.