A rant I've ranted before.

[LittleClarkie]

"I would like to talk to you a little bit about what the result is of the feelings these men carry with them after coming back from Vietnam. The country doesn't know it yet, but it has created a monster, a monster in the form of millions of men who have been taught to deal and to trade in violence, and who are given the chance to die for the biggest nothing in history; men who have returned With a sense of anger and a sense of betrayal which no one has yet grasped.

As a veteran and one who feels this anger, I would like to talk about it. We are angry because we feel we have been used in the worst fashion by the administration of this country."
"These were not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command."

"These were not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command."

"Finally, this administration has done us the ultimate dishonor. They have attempted to disown us and the sacrifice we made for this country. In their blindness and fear they have tried to deny that we are veterans or that we served in Nam. We do not need their testimony. Our own scars and stumps of limbs are witnesses enough for others and for ourselves."

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Seeing the coverage in the NYT of the trials of the Abu Ghraib soldiers, I keep coming back in my mind to Kerry's testimony, and to the pictures of soldiers in Vietnam shown in "Going Upriver" doing the same things in practically the same poses, looking just as damned happy in their pictures as the soldiers in Abu Ghraib. Then I flash to the medal toss, and that same soldier in tears as he throws his medals over the fence.

As I read about the trial testimony and defense of people like Englund and Granier, and hear their friends and their lawyers repeat over and over that they were ordered to do what they were doing, I come back to this testimony, and think that we've done it again. The commanders of these men deserted them. I don't care how happily these soldiers did their work at the time. Any of them can end up like the guy in "Going Upriver," utterly appalled at what they did during wartime. These weren't isolated events perpetrated by a group of degenerates, but standard operating procedure.

How can anyone read the 1971 testimony and not only see the truth in it, but also the parallels to our own war. Esp. as I watched "Going Upriver" they just slapped me in the face.

I'm always amazed when the I hear "Kerry's a traitor" talk and ask if they've actually read the testimony and the answer is "yes." READ IT AGAIN, THEN.

Why is this all so hard to grasp. I've met a Vietnam veteran or two. I don't think this administration knows what they're creating.

[ginnyinWI]

1. On NPR

there was an account of some national guardsmen who had been sent to Iraq. Some were interviewed before and then while there. At first they were all gung-ho, you know, how exciting it was going to be, etc. And the mom was crying, saying that her just-turned-19 year old didn't realize what he was saying.

Then later we hear him after about 12 months, and how he doesn't even know who he was back then, talking like that. And when they got the news that there were no WMDs, they started to feel really betrayed by their government. And now all they were fighting for is to keep each other safe and just get through it.

And there are so many troops damaged physically and mentally by this war. There are more survivors now, with medical advances, so more amputees, burn victims, etc. That's good, but there are more who are going to have to re-integrate into regular life again.

There already is an IVAW (Iraq Veterans Against the War)--not sure of its name, but if not, similar. Yeah we'll just have to see what comes of all of this.

Funny how we had Nixon and his refusal to withdraw from Vietnam, and he was involved in the Watergate scandal, and now Bush and Iraq, and who knows how many suspected scandals.

Wow I can really go off on this subject--I think it is my hot-button issue.

[LittleClarkie]

2. You got it right IVAW

They even have a website www.ivaw.net

One of their founding members told a newsperson during the DNC how inspired he'd been by the Kerry of 1971, and how worried he was that the Kerry of 2004 wasn't going to pull out fast enough.

[whometense]

3. This morning in Salon

this story, Ain't gonna study war no more was almost too painful to read. Here's a bit of it:

Kevin Benderman, formidable at 6 foot 2 inches and 240 pounds, has a deep Southern voice and 10 years of decorated military service. He began having misgivings about war in general, and the Iraq war in particular, during his six-month tour of duty in Iraq in 2003. It's difficult for him to pinpoint exactly when it happened. Maybe, he said, it was when Iraqi children repeatedly climbed onto a wall and threw pebbles at his unit, and his commanding officer ordered the troops in the area to shoot them if they climbed back on the wall. Maybe it was when he was posted to the supposed site of the biblical Garden of Eden, and over a period of weeks watched green corn shoots sprout after a fellow soldier spilled a cooler of water on the parched soil. "I thought it was amazing that the seeds took root," Benderman said. "That showed me that the land was fertile, and that God's hand had not forsaken that land. Corn was growing in the middle of the desert."

Or maybe it was simply witnessing war itself. "When you see people having to drink water out of a mud puddle, and you see all of their homes destroyed, and when you're going up the main highway and you see young girls on the side of the road with their arms burned all the way up to their shoulders, you really have to say, Do I want to be responsible for that kind of action?"

And yet, I just finished reading today's paper, and there was an article about how 6 in 10 americans are "hopeful" about *'s second term. I want to know what they are smoking and where I can get some.

[TayTay]

4. 'Hopeful' is a good thing

Americans should be hopeful. (We truly are the 'can-do' people.) I don't think this hope is a by-product of anything * has done. I think it is an innate quality of Americans. I am also 'hopeful' that a means can be found to get out of Iraq, find some friends in the world and try to solve some of the massive problems we have at home. I wouldn't post here (or do anything else) without hope.

I wonder about the Vets coming home. * doesn't give a damn about them. There are already reports of drug addicted vets being sent away so that Americans don't have to consider them and their plight. Homeless vets are starting to show up in the shelters. Again, no public support, they are treated as throw-aways. This really, really burns me. I want something done about this, it is a disgrace. We cannot treat veterans this way. It's morally and ethically wrong. I think this is going to be what does * in with the American people in the long run and what leads to his complete downfall.