Wonder no more about McCain.

[ProSense]

He is a sleaze.

Snip...

Through a remarkable orchestration of behind-the-scenes politicking, John McCain's advisors thrust him in the middle of the John Kerry Vice Presidential selection process - the McCain as VP rumors started not in the Kerry camp but in the McCain camp.

By elevating his status among Independents and Democrats, John McCain dramatically increased his appeal and political power. In fact, McCain currently outpolls some potential Democratic 2008 candidates among DEMOCRATS.

The possibility of McCain running as John Kerry's Vice President forced Rove to deal with McCain. Because with the pending launch of the Swift Boat veterans teed up, Rove simply couldn't let Kerry pick McCain. Two veterans, running together, unifying the country in a time of war would have been virtually unbeatable.

But would McCain have really switched and joined Kerry? The White House couldn't afford to wait to find out. Was a true deal struck? Was McCain promised the power of running as an incumbent Vice President in 2008? Few know for sure and I certainly am not one of them.

But when I saw John McCain embrace George Bush 2004, not just support him, but passionately embrace him, I wondered how he could do it.

When I saw a conservative magazine bring more attention to the rumors of a potential Dick Cheney departure, I wondered some more.

And if Dick Cheney leaves, and John McCain becomes Vice President, wonder no more.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-boyce/vice-president-john-mccai_b_16678.html

The public needs to stop falling for Repugs' BS. It's the same shit tactic that they're using by saying Shays supports Lieberman:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2488700&mesg_id=2488700

[karynnj]

1. Amazing

I have always felt that was the case, because it made absolutely no sense for the many reasons we all articulated. The only person it benefited was the vain McCain and it stabbed Kerry in the back - especially with the complicit media stories that McCain was not only his first, but his only choice.

I really wish this were carried in more mainstream media - McCain swiftboated Kerry here and then had the complete lack of morality to even expand it AFTER THE CAMPAIGN for the Newsweek hit piece - describing Kerry (?) of screaming at him about it. The contrast between the way these two men acted towards each other is amazing.

Is this in DU-P? There are people who still bring this up.

[ProSense]

5. It's in the

McCain: I trust Bush thread. The post has the original title, but not the emphasis on this aspect. I'll post this separately.

[ProSense]

7. Link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2490853&mesg_id=2490853

[whometense]

9. Recommended!!

and here's my contribution:

Spread the love.

[BlueIris]

13. ACK. Sick-making.

And I just ate.

[Dr Ron]

25. Note who objects

While most are interested, there is someone there who doesn't want to accept info which helps refute one of the common criticisms of Kerry in the liberal blogosphere. No surprise as to who.

[karynnj]

28. No surprise

I also thought it was naive that some thought he should have called McCain out on it. I can't believe that anyone could think the media wouldn't immediately (in the midst of the campaign) call Kerry a liar and a character assasin.

[Dr Ron]

30. It would have been hard for Kerry to deny it

If Kerry denied this, he wold risk being called a liar as you note.

He would have risked alienating moderate Republicans who think McCain is one and is being rejected.

He would have opened himself up to being expected to comment on any other person rumored to be under consideration

[FreedomAngel82]

14. Don't forget how the media loves McCain

[whometense]

16. I know.

Sorry. Has the same effect on me. But desperate times...

[ginnyinWI]

17. JK supposedly screamed at McCain?

Never in a million years. It's McCain who is the hot-head. Why do Repubs always accuse everyone of having their OWN faults??? :crazy:

[beachmom]

19. Karynnj -- do you have a link to that Newsweek article?

I just am curious what was written precisely about Kerry "screaming" at McCain. Here's the thing -- it's not even blind faith on our part. Kerry simply is not a screamer. The angrier or more stressed out he gets, the calmer and cooler he is on the outside. It sounds like McCain projected his own personality on Kerry.

Isn't this also funny that we were talking about this on the Biden thread. You know, I'm beginning to imagine what happened. Biden, who was an advisor on the Kerry team, probably was shooting the sh** with McCain, saying something like "oh, YOU should be the VP". This gives McCain the idea to start rumors that Kerry wants him as VP, and since Biden who is part of the Kerry campaign talked about it, McCain feels that technically he's not lying. Then Kerry doesn't want to cause a big spat over the whole thing (either with Biden or McCain), and stays quiet, that he won't talk about it. Maybe Kerry SHOULD have been more forthright that he wasn't considering anyone but a Democrat for the position. OR am I off base, and did Kerry really want McCain for VP? I really want to know . . .

[karynnj]

20. No - and it's from memory

I am pretty sure of it because it seemed so unlikely - It was that long after the elections issue. the McCain projecting a known fault of his own on Kerry seems about right.

What I thought was sick about it, was it was after the election - McCain could have said something like it was really just rumours, never serious. It just seemed that to say what he did after the loss was just gratuitous meanness.

I would guess that because it was never more than gossip - thoough there were a few times that McCain mentioned it. I do remember a few times when Kerry said that Edwards was his first choice. I don't remember reading or seeing Kerry being directly asked about McCain, so it may have been that it was hard to issue a denial for something that was kind of underground (though even picked up by pollsters.) I agree he SHOULD have made a strong, friendly denial - McCain's a friend, but he's a conservative Republican.

[whometense]

23. I remember it too -

been looking for a link, so far unsuccessfully.

But look what I did turn up: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6262620/site/newsweek/from/RL.3/print/1/displaymode/1098/

I bet blm has seen this. Does anyone else remember it?

[karynnj]

24. That's a really nice Biden comment at the end

"John would never come and jump on your piece of legislation or elbow you to a press conference or steal your idea or fail to give you credit—things that are rampant in this place," says Joe Biden, the senior Democrat on Kerry's foreign-relations committee. "He's classy." "

[Mass]

26. Well, at this time, he was hoping to be SoS.

That may have helped Biden to find the words.

[ProSense]

27. These articles point to McCain

McCain's rhetorical flirtation with the idea of becoming Sen. John Kerry's running mate is just the latest act in an ongoing intramural psychodrama that began in 1999, and no amount of common geostrategic purpose in the post-9/11 world can end it. He is a proud man, a fierce fighter with an ego to match the pride and ferocity. He wanted the Republican nomination in 2000, wanted it badly, and raged against what he saw as a system rigged against him.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4506988

Biden endorses
a fusion ticket:
Kerry-McCain
Democrat's 'Hardball' comments likely to fuel new speculation
By Mike Stuckey
MSNBC.com Politics Editor
Updated: 1:06 a.m. ET March 17, 2004

One of the presidential nominating season's most unusual ideas was proposed again Tuesday, this time by one of the most powerful Democrats in Congress, when Sen. Joseph Biden advocated a "unity" ticket of Democratic Sen. John Kerry and Republican Sen. John McCain.

Biden made his comments on MSNBC TV's "Hardball" when moderator Chris Matthews asked him: "Do you think McCain is seriously — and I mean this professionally — flirting with the idea of accepting a second place on the ticket with John Kerry, and creating a fusion ticket to run against the president?"

Replied Biden: "I think that this is time for unity in this country, and maybe it is time to have a guy like John McCain — a Republican — on the ticket with a guy he does like. They do get along. And they don't have fundamental disagreements on major policies."

The red and the blue

When asked by Matthews if he would support such a ticket, Biden said, "I would. Yeah, if John Kerry said that's who he wanted, and McCain — I'd encourage McCain to say yes. I doubt whether John would do it. I doubt whether John McCain would do it. But, you know, we need some unity here, man. The red states and the blue states — we've got to have something to coalesce around here."

The notion that a lifelong Republican like McCain would join the Democratic ticket is widely dismissed by many Washington observers, but McCain himself fanned the flames when he said last week on an ABC News show that he would "entertain" joining Kerry on the Democratic ticket.

"John Kerry is a close friend of mine. We have been friends for years," McCain said on "Good Morning America" on Wednesday. "Obviously I would entertain it."

more...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4542473/

[karynnj]

32. Thanks for posting these

For some people whenever McCain's name comes up for some obnoxious thing he's done, it's always an excuse to say - what was Kerry thinking ,,, But all of these together do back iot being a McCain publicity stunt. Biden shouldn't have encouraged it - but at least here he's saying Kerry likely wouldn't go for it.

This whole thing had to be so annoying to Kerry, What's amazing is that with every relevation - you can see there were more dirty tricks on the Republican side and the support was incredibly poor on the Democratic side. (and I don't mean Cahill and Strum - who were less bad than Biden and the clinton underlings. )

[ginnyinWI]

38. I have that issue--

If I can find it I can type it out. Any idea where I can find it in the issue?

[ginnyinWI]

39. Found it!

Okay, steel yourselves--remember, this is Newsweek crap, and this whole issue has a very negative tone to the whole story of Kerry and the campaign:

McCain exclaimed,"You're out of your mind. I don't even know if it's constitutional, and it certainly wouldn't sell."
That meant no. Kerry was thwarted and furious about it. "Goddammit," he ranted to an intermediary. "Don't you know what I offered him? Why the f--- didn't he take it? After what the Bush people did to him..." Kerry was mystified.

Some erstwhile journalist is a wanna-be novelist--it sounds so "writerly", doesn't it?

[karynnj]

40. A bad wanna-be-novelist

It just sounded so unlike anything that I had ever seen or heard of Kerry. This will also likely be in the Nesweek book on the election - I really don't understand why after the loss, they felt the need to do such a vindictive piece.

[ginnyinWI]

47. I got the impression

from this issue, that they wanted to create a story about why Kerry lost--and spun every event that way-- "see, this is why he lost (and deserved to)". And everything about * was a struggle over which he ultimately triumphed. Had it gone the other way, they might have taken the same text and spun it the same way for Kerry--"He faced all of these challenges and rose above them all to claim the presidency!"

I have the idea that they had the texts for this issue written for either outcome--and then tailored them to match the outcome of the election.

[ginnyinWI]

48. I have some extra time today--so here are 4 full paragraphs

from that election issue of Newsweek. This will give you a better context:

Kerry was too cautious, too set in his ways, to fundamentally change his speech patterns and delivery. But in one important area, he was willing--even desperate--to try something bold. He badly wanted Sen. John McCain to be his running mate. As far back as August 2003, Kerry had taken McCain to breakfast to sound him out: would the maverick Republican run on a unity ticket with Kerry? In the mid-90s, the two Vietnam combat vets had forged a friendship, a brotherhood, while trying to calm down veterans(sic) groups obsessed over rumors about POWs and MIAs still alive in Vietnam. Kerry knew that McCain was still bitter over the dirty tricks played on him during the 2000 campaign by Bush mudslingers, who spread rumors that McCain had fathered a black child by a prostitute. Here was a chance to get even, but much more grandly an opportunity to bridge the Red State/Blue State divide, break the Washington logjam and bring the country together.
McCain batted away the idea as not serious. But Kerry was intent, and after he wrapped up the nomination in March, he went back after McCain a half-dozen more times. "I can't say this is an offer because I've got to be able to deny it," Kerry told his friend. "But you've got to do this." To show just how sincere he was, he made an outlandish offer. If McCain said yes, he would expand the role of vice president to include secretary of Defense and the overall control of foreign policy. (The deal was reminiscent of the so-called co-presidency offered to Gerald Ford by Ronald Reagan at the 1980 Republican convention; the suggestion fell apart of its own weight.) McCain exclaimed,"You're out of your mind. I don't even know if it's constitutional, and it certainly wouldn't sell."
That meant no. Kerry was thwarted and furious about it. "Goddammit," he ranted to an intermediary. "Don't you know what I offered him? Why the f--- didn't he take it? After what the Bush people did to him..." Kerry was mystified. The Kerry camp made a last stab at persuading McCain through actor Warren Beatty, an old friend of Shrum's and a longtime Democratic activist. But McCain wasn't buying.
By then, Karl Rove had awakened to the threat of losing McCain, and had begun to reel him back into the GOP tent. In May, Rove met with McCain's adviser, John Weaver, at the Caribou Coffee Shop down the block from the White House. Rove and Weaver had once worked together on Texas political campaigns before falling out (over money, it was rumored; Rove reportedly spread smears about Weaver, aggravating the wound). But now the two old hands made peace and began planning for McCain's re-emergence as a Republican stalwart. At a campaign event in Reno, Nev., on June 18, the two old foes embraced. The sight of McCain's hugging the president, or awkwardly trying to with his POW-damaged arms, was so surprising that pundits assumed a quid pro quo. There wasn't any; McCain believed that Bush was a more decisive war president, and he wanted to keep his own party credentials burnished for a possible presidential run in 2008"

I just have to say it: John Kerry would have turned foreign policy completely over to John McCain???? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[ProSense]

49. That's hilarious! n/t

[beachmom]

41. Who were the sources for this? Was the journalist there?

They mention him ranting to an "intermediary" -- would that be someone who is now on the Clinton team? I mean -- finding out that things you thought to be true are possibly LIES is disconcerting even from someone who has been watching politics very closely for over a year. Is the sky still blue? I have to say that I thought Kerry DID want McCain as VP, and I think at the time I believed the above paragraph (I knew less about Kerry then than I do now). So am I hearing that the conversation shown in that paragraph is pure fiction? It just didn't happen? Because EVERYONE thinks it's true, I can tell you. And it WILL be used in '08. What do we do about this?

[ginnyinWI]

46. there is no by-line

The article is entitled, "Teaming Up"--don't know whether it's online anymore or not.

I don't know--did Kerry specifically deny he'd asked McCain? Or just refused to comment?

[ProSense]

42. Here's McCain denying the offer

was ever made:

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., who has been asked for months whether he would join the Kerry ticket, said Wednesday he has never been offered the job of Kerry’s running mate and would not accept such a position. He declined to comment on whether he and Kerry had discussed a unity ticket. The Associated Press reported that discussions ended last week with McCain rejecting Kerry’s request to consider being his running mate.

“I’m not going to talk about private conversations I’ve had with senators. I’m just not going to do that. But I was never offered that,” McCain said. The Arizona Republican said he will campaign for Bush’s re-election.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5225039

There's also been a prominent Republican prospect — John McCain, the independent-minded Arizona senator, former Vietnam prisoner of war and good friend of Kerry's. When a Florida man asked Kerry about McCain this month, Kerry assured him that "I've never hesitated to think out of any box."

Kerry brought up the subject several times with McCain over a period stretching from late last summer to last month. McCain said Wednesday on NBC that "I've never been offered the job." Despite his frustrations with President Bush and his party, he says he'll stay a Republican.

So the search and the speculation continue. Kerry, 60, flew back to Washington from Columbus, Ohio, late Wednesday "to meet with colleagues." They turned out to be Gephardt and Sen. John Breaux of Louisiana.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-06-16-veeps-usat_x.htm

McCain floated the rumor, Kerry had no reason to make it an issue, but it never happened.

So people took liberties with a rumor. While searching for information, it seems to me that most of the reports claiming this would be a brilliant ticket were RW rags, that ought to give some indication that this was a deliberate tatic by Republicans. Why? Creating the moderate McCain.

[karynnj]

43. The first article makes no sense at all

1) McCain says it wasn't offered
2) wouldn't say if they discussed a unity ticket
Next sentence
3) AP says - discussions ended with McCain rejecting Kerry's offer.

What nonsense is this - they have a direct quote of McCain denying it. They then give equal (or more) weight to an AP report that at least here has no source.
(So maybe McCain played with rumors.)

The Why might be as much creating a clueless Kerry - when you add the comments later that he had no real second choice. (I think the comment last year that Kerry considered Durbin far more likely than his considering McCain). Biden, unfortunately gave it a bipartisan feel.

[ProSense]

45. Good catch and point. n/t

[wisteria]

2. Well, I have been thinking that McCain has been campaigning

since 2000. This would also explain how he continues to back up the President on issues like the ports and the war in Iraq without uttering any real criticisms towards both. A good VP will do that.

[whometense]

3. Wow.

Just wow.

And it totally makes sense. What a horror show he is. I think the liberal blogosphere has to just hammer him relentlessly, en masse. This is going up on my blog today - thanks for posting it!

[whometense]

8. Ok,

got it.

http://toughenough.org/2006/03/john-mccain-is-slimy-bastard.html

Critiques are welcome. (especially if they up the nastiness quotient)

[TayTay]

10. Got it n/t

[ProSense]

11. Great! n/t

[TayTay]

4. I believe it. And I believe that McCain is a whore

who would sell out a friend in order to get the VP slot. What a sleeze ball.

Too bad that the press won't pick up on this. I think we should mass-mail this to Tweety's Show (even though he will ignore it in order to run another segment about how much he loves Bush and can't believe his popularity is falling becuase, after all, John Kerry flip-flopped. )

[Dr Ron]

6. I thought so all along

McCain had also claimed in the past that he was Bush's first choice but turned him down.

[FreedomAngel82]

15. Really?

Do you have any press on that?

[Dr Ron]

18. I'm looking

I heard this in the past and recall ultimately tracking down a link but don't know where it is off hand. Unfortunately doing a google search for things like "McCain Vice President" brings up tons of links and I can't find the exact one. I'm pretty sure it happened on a talk show.

[karynnj]

21. I remember reading it as well

where the intent of the writer was to challange both claims.

[Dr Ron]

22. Found a source

McCain: "No. We are friends. Joe Lieberman is a friend of mine, also, as is John Edwards. You know, in America I think it's still possible to have a friend if they're in another party, at least I hope so. Look, I don't want to be Vice President of the United States, I do not want to leave the Republican party, I would not be Vice President of the United States on either ticket. I told President Bush when he asked me in 2000 if, when he asked me if I was interested, I said I was not interested. I love being in the United States Senate and I am of the party of Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt. I can not categorically more state, answer no."

McCain from interview on CBS’s The Early Show with Hannah Storm
http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalerts/2004/cyb20040322.asp#2

[JI7]

29. yeah, i remember you posted about it

and it made sense. it was intended to keep him relevent. make it about how he is wanted by everyone.

[FreedomAngel82]

12. Nothing more to divide us

and destroy Kerry. And here I thought they were friends. Maybe this is why they had that fight?

[TayTay]

31. ProSense: Congrats on making the DU Home page

with this information! You rock! :party: :dem: :yourock:

[ProSense]

33. OMG! Thanks.

I had no idea. I enter the forum via a bookmarked link to JK forum and usually navigate my way around using the Latest Discussion Threads page.

[whometense]

34. Congratulations!!!!!

And well-deserved!

[ProSense]

35. Thanks Whome. n/t

[ProSense]

36. CA Dems sue McCain

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2492013&mesg_id=2492013

[whometense]

50. You never know where a link will take you...

That thread led me to this: John Kerry's Skeleton Closet

Hint: his skeleton closet is pretty damned empty. McCain's has some pretty interesting stuff in it.

And then I found this (just for fun) Underground Sounds

Electras: (St. Paul's School) Concord, New Hampshire. instro guitar raveups and surf covers. This is not Litter related - the Ely, Minnesota group did not record an lp.

lp (63, Electra elt-201) Electras <3>
-- custom pressing by RCA.

Does anyone else here have the Electras cd? I do. :blush:

[ProSense]

51. Interesting

In an archaeological mood I see; finding skeletons and all. LOL!


McCain is an unscrupulous b-tard.

[karynnj]

52. Other than Lieberman, everyone else has something

Kerry's doesn't count - Because it's cute and good, not bad. He's the only one whose close only makes him better.(I've never heard that he played guitar at staff meetings - that sound pretty unlikely )

Biggest surprise - reading Gore's - some like the "lying" was more snark than real and it's the way politians speak, but I was shocked at the accusation that he rewrote environmental regulations for endorsements. Some came back too clearly. Looking at the Clinton pages - show that 2008 will be nasty if she's in it.

McCain really is a jerk. There's a lot the primary people will throw at him.

How is the album?

[globalvillage]

37. Some good stuff on McCain

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x571666

[ProSense]

44. Thanks for the link.

McCain’s batshit crazy attack on Senator Obama



:rofl: