Does anyone know if these numbers are true?

[paulk]

I missed the Al Franken show this mornig, so I didn't hear this, but since it's Kos talking about Kerry, I have to wonder.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2539626

[JohnKleeb]

1. By Media would that mean ads and such that one would see on TV

I can't prove it false for you but I am with you on questioning the source and I am still pissed that Kos is the most identifable liberal blogger, we can do better than him, much better/

[sandnsea]

2. My guess

I'm guessing the 15% media buy fee is correct. Ad buying is weird. I've had ad agencies do banner buys on my web sites and they held back a percentage for their fee. That's just how it works. So yeah, the company that placed the ads for the campaign got a percentage.

As to relying exclusively on media while Rove used the churches, well let's think about that for a minute. Rove can't PAY the churches, that would be illegal. People like Falwell and Reed and Dobson organized for the churches. Just like Soros and Moveon and NOW and ACORN and environmental groups were supposed to organize for JK. Churches created the wedge issues within their own voting groups. Our groups sat in the corner and pouted cuz they weren't getting the proper hugs and kisses.

That's the way I see it anyway.

[JI7]

4. i agree

and so why should we continue sending these groups money if they aren't ready to get out ? but instead want to hold forums where they can cheer themseles on.

i think labor unions did the best job in terms of organizing and getting out.

[JohnKleeb]

5. I think youre right about labor

It really is unfortunate that labor isn't what it was though. Speaking of labor though, thats actually what I may be getting in to as a career field, not as a union organizer but as a labor arbirator.

[JI7]

6. does that mean law school ?

sounds like a good area for you.

i hope union membership does increase in the future. the Republicans will do all they can to prevent it from happening or weakening them .

[JohnKleeb]

7. Yeah

Quite possibly though my grandfather was not a trained lawyer, he I believe majored in Business at Pitt and for the first few years after graduating was an automobile salesman.
http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/
This is where I want go for law/grad school. An old friend of my grandfathers recommended it when my dad talked with him. This guy was at one time counsel of hte National Labor Relations Board. It sounds like a great too and according to my dad his dad met a lot of famous names of labor like the Reuther Brothers, probably John L Lewis too I bet, and others.

[sandnsea]

10. That sounds really great

You'd be good at it too, you've got the common sense, patience, and passion for it. I'm so proud of you. :hug:

[JohnKleeb]

11. Thanks

I thought about it real hard and discussed this with my dad. I mean I am quite a partisan but I can also be very objective and impartial, and see the validity of all kinds of point of view. According to my dad, his father was quite the liberal democrat and very tolerant of others but he believed in compromise, finding the truth between the two lies so to speak. I see my grandfather in my dad when my dad takes the devil's advocate position. Fools me every time.

[sandnsea]

12. "truth between the two lies"

Wow, what a great way to put it. I think that's alot of what life is, your grandfather must have been a great man to know that and be able to put it into practice.

[JohnKleeb]

14. Yeah I always thought it was great

My dad when he was in his songwriting period put it in there as a lyric. Yeah from what my dad's told me about him that he was very respected and admired for his ability to be objective and fair. I think its a great way of putting it too, because you know a large reason why I took a break form the boards was a frustration with the extremeism I saw in some people who support anyone who doesn't like Bush, I saw it with Lukahsenko in Belarus. I wish I knew my grandfather, he really was a great man, and was tolerant too of all people.

[sandnsea]

8. I don't know

Somebody posted here about 2 weeks before the election, in complete hysterics. Apparently the "vote your values" people had been to her church. She got it, oh boy did she get it. It was the first I'd heard of it and I will kick myself forever for not listening. Especially when I saw that MSNBC special about the hi-tech tour bus these people had put together, voter registration in church lobbies, etc. They didn't tell anybody who to vote for, they just presented everything to make it clear to vote for Bush. I had never seen anything about it before the election, but when I did see it, boy did I think about that DUer. There was a ton of this stuff.

And then, look at the immigration rallies. Can you imagine if we'd gotten out that vote? And lots of them are legal out there. Why can't we organize anything like that anymore, criminy they even got them all to wear white shirts for peace. Can you imagine trying to get 5 lefty freepers to even agree on a color of a shirt?

Maybe this is what we get for telling our kids their opinions count. Every one of them took it to heart. :rofl:

[JI7]

13. just get out there any do it

yeah, that's what the religious people pretty much did. even reached out to Muslims on issues like abortion. ignore all the other issues, just bring up the issue they would agree with their candidate on. and of course , make clear which candidate was the guy for abortion and gays and which one was for "morals and values".

the same with the immigration protests. they had a specific goal in mind which is to stop the anti immigration bill. so they get out and march against it. forget about any schedules for whenever and wherever it would be best. just get out wherever you are at the moment and protest. school, work, anything.

that's what they do in France and other places.

no complaining about how nobody is talking about this or that issue. get out there and talk about it yourself. research the candidates. they do have a record. they can't talk about everything at once. but we can focus on the areas we like the most and tell others about it.

[sandnsea]

16. That's actually why I started to blog again

A little anyway. To try to start talking about issues in a broader way, not just the flavor of the day the way it happens now. I picked children, human rights and the environment because that's what I care the most about. It isn't a protest exactly, but it's something.

[JohnKleeb]

17. Human Rights is a great issue to focus on

I've become interested in human rights since I saw Schindler's List and Hotel Rwanda. It kinda changed my view on Foreign Policy, I used to be kinda isolationist but now I consider myself more of an internationalist since I feel its the US's responsiblity to promote human rights around the world.

[wisteria]

18. I had the same feeling of disbelief when a co-worker stated the

same thing to me. I am voting my values, And it was well understood who she intended to vote for. He church had encouraged this way of voting. I would love to have heard how they made a villain out of Senator Kerry-an honest and truly good man.

[TayTay]

20. That's why the continuing growth of the Religious Left is so important.

The Religious Left will never be the same as the Religious Right. (Lefties are just different.) But there are values that are being ignored by the RW values pushers. They are ignoring poverty and the near total Biblical command to care for the poor. There is a growing environmental movement among the Evangelical Churches that is not getting any results from the Rethugs and is ready to turn to the Dems for help.

The '04 race is likely to be one of the most significant races of my entire lifetime. It's not just the race itself, but all the ripples that it sent out. I think it was the left's 'Goldwater 1964' race in terms of how it will shape the future of the Dem party. A huge amount of stuff came to the forefront. I think '04 was the highpoint of the Republican coalition that has been building since 1964. I think the fissures are starting to crack wide open in the Repub coalitions and that it will become harder and harder to hold these factions together. The Repubs cannot respond to requests from their base on immigration (this is a huge split in the Repub Party right now) and it cannot continue to pretend that it is Christian when it neglects a poverty agenda. These factions are tearing the PArty apart.

'04 was also a watershed moment for the Left. We cannot do things the way we used to. The country has changed. The Dems have to learn how to communicate their core goals and agenda to a different country and to voters who are not in unions or in big cities and who don't have the old system that served the Dems so well in the past. Dems will adapt or die. (Obviously, I think they will adapt.)

[second edition]

21. Very good points. We have to adapt and work hard. Money

isn't the answer for all the troubles in our party. We really did lose touch with people. I think it actually started to come apart in the late 70's and early 80's. In the 90's we let Clinton do all the talking and connecting for us. It is now time to reach out and explain who we are, what we believe in and how we represent the people.

[karynnj]

3. But when you have the media for free, his 5 supplemented

an uncountable number.

[ProSense]

9. $5 and $11 million?

I was trying to find a link to the broadcast, but there are two posts in the thread quoting the same figures. Agency fee aside, those numbers don't make sense.

According to TNS Media Intelligence/Campaign Media Analysis Group data, the Bush-Cheney campaign has spent approximately $56.7 million to broadcast 13 spots on television stations in 100 markets of battleground states. The research concludes that 63 percent or $36 million has been spent to air seven “negative” ads.

In recent months, a number of tax exempt political organizations, known as “527 groups” after a provision in the tax code, have been formed to raise money in support of issues that play to Senator Kerry’s advantage. By law, these groups work independently from the Kerry campaign. (Supporters of President Bush have also organized such groups to a significantly lesser extent.) According to USA today, 527 groups, such as MoveOn.org Voter Fund and The Media Fund, have spent approximately $30 million on television advertisements. University of Missouri-Columbia data reported that an estimated 84 percent of the statements in those 527 groups’ 50 spots have been attacks targeted at President Bush. These spots combined with the Kerry campaign’s five negative ads that have aired on cable channels total more than $40 million spent on negative advertising to date.

More..

http://usinfo.state.gov/dhr/img/assets/5796/elections05_19_2004.pdf

[jenndar]

15. Isn't $5 million like, 1 or 2 commercials in a big city? n/t

[ProSense]

19. Yup! n/t