Can someone tell me what's wrong with giving all the kids in the US health

[JohnKleeb]

care? I am dying to know. Seriously I favor universal health care but if we can get something out of this Kids First, it will be a victory not a step backward.

[WildEyedLiberal]

1. The problem is that Kerry proposed it.

Kerry is to tiny-dicked, pea-brained, mouthbreathing trolls as a mongoose is to cobras.

[JohnKleeb]

2. So you're telling me if say uhhh Feingold was behind this

They'd be cool. No offense intended to Feingold of course, being a DEMOCRAT and a person of reason, I'd support this bill no matter who was sponsoring it.

[WildEyedLiberal]

3. Oh God, I'm sure

If Feingold had proposed this, in fact, they'd be attacking Kerry still, for NOT having proposed it.

"Feingold cares about liberal values! Kerry is just a DLC pretender who doesn't want "socialist" health care! Fuck Kerry!"

Of course, since health care IS one of the most liberal things you can advocate for, they're really straining themselves finding ways to attack it. Fucking loathsome trolls.

[JohnKleeb]

4. Damned if you do, damned if you dont

Reason 999999 why I stillam politically disillusiouded

[WildEyedLiberal]

6. It proves they don't actually give a shit about anything they say they do

If Kerry had proposed censure, they'd ALL be attacking him for presenting it as an alternative to impeachment because he's a DLC DINO shill who doesn't want to see Bush impeached.

However, because Feingold proposed it, it's the greatest, most fucking liberal thing ever, and even though FEINGOLD HIMSELF says censure is in lieu of impeachment, they judiciously ignore his own words and proclaim Feingold to be the only Democrat who wants to "fight Bush." If everything about this situation was the exact same and you simply swapped Kerry for Feingold, the reaction on the "netroots" would be 100% different. I'd bet cold hard cash on that.

Then again, the "netroots" would rather sit and stare at its own dick than actually advocate consistently for any specific agenda or support anything that's actually, feasibly possible.

[JohnKleeb]

8. Yeah true and by the way I am glad you and your folks are ok

I am just sick of these "netroots" who whine about every little thing, if we got a universal health care bill passed, they'd whine about the color of the pen used to sign the bill.

[WildEyedLiberal]

10. They would if Kerry is the one who signs it into law

If it's one of their heroes, it'll be the greatest victory ever. If it's Kerry, they'll find SOMETHING to bitch about.

[JohnKleeb]

11. HE ONLY SIGNED IT BECAUSE

THE NETROOTS FORCED HIM TO!

[WildEyedLiberal]

12. Yeah or else they'll bitch about the bill

"Kerry's universal healthcare plan doesn't subsidize my penis enhancement pills!! He's no liberal!!"

[JohnKleeb]

13. penis enhancement

:rofl:

[karynnj]

16. Actually it would likely be worse

They would be saying Kerry was proposing it to:
-Gain support for 2008
and
- To help his S&B buddy, get a failed censure vote that he could say vindicates him
and
- because he couldn't see or didn't care if it hurt in 2006
and
- To avoid impeachment

[WildEyedLiberal]

17. God, they would

Some genius would say "Who wants to bet that this is an under the table S&B deal to let Bush off the hook???????"

These people are cowards, fools, liars, and idiots. I hate them.

[Mass]

26. No doubt about that.

Even those who say reasonnable things (like why did Kerry propose a partial solution rather than a comprehensive one, this is a valid question) do not ask the question in a reasonnable way, that could be productive.

They prefer to attack Kerry, as if it was going to help them reach their goal. Difficult to understand why, except if it is for Kerry-bashing.

[JI7]

5. agree with WEL, because KErry proposed it

just as if Kerry had proposed Censure instead of Feingold they would be going on about how Kerry is letting Bush off by not supporting impeachment instead.

the responses from those who have a problem with this are just assholish.

[JohnKleeb]

7. Its damned if you , damned if you dont

I am serious, what the hell is he supposed to do, go in to the white house and get rid of Bush literally.

[WildEyedLiberal]

9. LOL great minds think alike!!

See my post #5!

Dead right. If you swapped Kerry with Feingold on this censure spectacle, Kerry would be Public Enemy No. 1 for "trying to block impeachment." Whereas Feingold is a hero because he "is the only Democrat fighting Bush."

[ProSense]

19. So true.

Like the poster who said calling for an investigation was weak.


I love KidsFirst

I have plenty of nieces and nephews and know the value of such a program. It certainly will be a huge victory if passed.

If Kerry called for Bush's impeachment, these people would be demanding that he go further, or they might try to convince us that censure is better than impeachment. Oh wait, they're assholishly (thanks for the word, works as an adjective too) doing that already.

[JohnKleeb]

20. I favor a program because it helps the poorer kids

My brothers and I already have adequate health insurance but not everyone is so lucky as I have been so I support legislation like this to help the less fortunate. Now ain't that what true liberalism is all about, doing good on those who need help most instead of just taking the most liberal stance on an issue because you can. Programs like this will help the kids I learned about in a presenation I saw in Speech Communication class, kids who can't afford school supplies.

[ProSense]

21. That is what it's all about.

Being from a big family, where it isn't possible to spread income around to help everyone as much as we would like to, it easy to see where the shortfalls are. Health care is very expensive.

[JohnKleeb]

22. My grandparents all came from big Catholic families

grew up for the most part poor so I always have my eye out for the "little guy" so to speak. Yeah liberalism isn't about being the most left you can be on issues, its about doing what's right for hte less fortunate.

[JI7]

23. and it's not just about whether or not the kids get health care

but about the family themselves. that parents don't have to worry about whether they can pay their heating, water , food bills because they need to pay off the medical bills if their child has a condition which is costly.

[JohnKleeb]

24. Right

Funny how so called "progressives" don't get this, they seem to prefer to attack the messenger and not realize what good this can do. Goddamn taht Kerry for pandering to the little kid lobby :D. Yeah you're absolutely right, its not jsut about the kids themselves but about their families. I am still cracking up when someone refered to this as a "DLC" idea, whats next a nationwide civil unions bill will be DLC.

[ProSense]

25. Like that person

quoting the cost of cancer treatment for women. What's the complaint in trying to ensure that children receive adequate care? There are plenty of life threatening illnesses that plagued kids too, kids without health care. Also, saying health care is cheap is silly. Calculate earning $600 per week (or less) and having to pay to take a child with an infection to the doctor, add in the prescription(s) and the whole thing can spell disaster.

An emergency room visit could leave such a person in debt for a long time. People are on payment plans for childbirth. There is nothing cheap or easy about the disaster of the uninsured, adults or children.

[Mass]

27. There was somebody saying healthcare is cheap?

Difficult to believe somebody could be that stupid.

I did not have the patience to go thru the full thread.

[JohnKleeb]

28. I can say if it wasn't for my mom having a great job with the government

I wouldn't have a health care plan probably, I am not insulting my dad but his jobs didn't provide great plans.

[ProSense]

29. Not only that, but

the person also said that children don't get sick often and their needs are more preventive.

[JohnKleeb]

30. Thats a laugh

More and more I think about this, I think they are opposing this bill out of ignorance.

[WildEyedLiberal]

32. Okay, where is this person?

PM me if you have to. I have a few things to say to them.

Try being fucking born with a serious, chronic health condition and lets see how "minor" kids' health issues are.

[ProSense]

35. This is

two-thirds down in the thread a post about pandering.

[karynnj]

41. Which is beyond stupid

Each of my three kids have had medical bills that without insurance would have been far greater than my own expenses. I have family insurance from a job I retired from. One thing that is obvious from the statements is that the cost the insurance company pays is highly discounted from the rate that you pay with no insurance.

Years ago, I was in my kids' pediatrians office to get streph tests for 2 of my then little kids. Another mother was there with 4 kids, one of whom looked pretty sick. That kid had streph. The other kids had sore throats but the mom didn't want them tested because she couldn't afford it - the office did the in-office test for her without charge. I saw her later at the nearest pharmacy. It was very clear that even with the break she got from the doctors, the cost of the visit and the medicine was an unplanned expense.

[WildEyedLiberal]

31. Health care isn't cheap when you're a kid born with a chronic condition

I was born with congenital heart failure due to a prolapsed aortic valve and a hole between my chambers. I've had three open-heart surgeries, all before I was 18. I was certainly not alone - I went to St. Louis Children's Hospital for my procedures and every year for an annual check-up, and the waiting room in the cardiology clinic was always filled with little kids with crappy hearts. I didn't even get to see the other parts of the hospital, like the kids' oncology unit - fortunately, most of the kids I saw in the cardiology clinic didn't have terminal illnesses with all the neverending care that those demand.

If my dad's employee health care plan hadn't paid 100% coverage of my operations, I don't know what my family would have done. Open-heart surgery costs something like half a million bucks - what on EARTH would have happened to me if my dad had been laid off, or had a crappy job which didn't provide coverage and didn't pay enough to ensure decent health care for a chronic condition such as mine? Do these people realize how exorbitant the out-of-pocket premium is for people like me with a nasty pre-existing condition? I am anathema to insurance companies because they KNOW they'll have to dish out money for an expensive procedure for me down the line, so they want to charge something to the tune of a thousand bucks premium.

I was fortunate. A lot of people aren't so lucky. NO child should die at age three because their parents couldn't afford to take them to a specialist to diagnose a serious condition that, left untreated, will be fatal. John Kerry is a hero for proposing Kids First so that NO family ever has to go bankrupt to pay for life-saving medical treatment for their child.

[JohnKleeb]

33. I know about your condition

You're very fortunate. Its a shame really when I think about this harder because I think perhaps if health care had been better in the 30's perhaps my great aunt who was retarded would have had an easier life. I always have said I was liberal for personal reasons, my union background, my somewhat minority background, and above all being learning disabled. I know there's not a lot of love for Joe Lieberman out there but I'll give him credit, he's been supportive of helping austic kids out, I have Aspergers Syndrome, a form of highly functioning autism and it really does mean a lot to me that someone gives a shit about that. Kerry really does deserve support for this bill, kids are our youngest and most vulnerable age group, to think that Kerry would be attacked for writing such a bill is disgusting, the people who attack him obvously are too in love with making themselves feel like they are liberal than everyone else. True liberalism/leftism isn't about being as liberal as you can, it's doing what's right and I'll be damned if someone tells me this isn't right.

[WildEyedLiberal]

34. Exactly

He's doing the right thing to do - taking care of the most vulnerable and helpless members of our society. Kids can't control whether their parents have health care or not, and they certainly can't pursue or purchase their own plan. The essence of being liberal is taking care of those in our society who need it most. Those who oppose that are no liberals at all, but rather radical leftists who are every bit as selfish and politically conniving as Republicans.

[JohnKleeb]

36. Exactly

It's about doing the right thing not being a dogmatic leftist. I swear these people just don't get it. The far left honestly looks more and more cold hearted to me even if I agree with them on domestic policy for the most part.

[WildEyedLiberal]

37. They are cruel and unsavory people

They have no more compassion for people than the far right. They only hate the Iraq war because Bush started it - these same far leftists would probably be the first ones cheering if, say, Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro joined forces to bomb Houston, Texas. It's not about "innocent civilians" or any broader principle that war and killing are wrong. They just oppose WHO is doing the killing. Did you see where several of them were saying that Jill Carroll deserved torture because she committed the unforgivable crime of being an American, and that whatever any militant insurgents did to Americans - military or not - was justified because of Abu Ghraib?

They don't care about health care for everyone, or anyone. They only care about getting their faction into power. They aren't any more humanitarian than Stalin was.

[JohnKleeb]

38. the saracat thread?

I did see that, of course its about WHO's doing the killing to them. These people were more upset that the white house was questioning Alexander Lukashenko's legitmency as president of Belarus and even saying that Putin should tell Bush to shut up. That is laughable on so many levels, first off Lukashenko is a terrible tyrant just like Stalin was and furthermore Russia hasn't the right to get involved in Belarussian sovereignty. They also hate the Orange Revolution that occured in Kiev last year because it was supported by the West. The true liberal to me promotes democracy around the world not apologizes for terror and tyranny because the person opposes Bush. Bush is a problem yes but I swear to god if this country were attacked by terrorists, I would do everything I could to help the victims or enlist in the military or try to serve my country somehow.

[ProSense]

39. Excellent!

Your last post in response to that person was excellent. The mumbo jumbo in that statement just proves these people are being argumentative and not really concerned about the plight of anyone without health care. All that crap about "economic standards" improving status therefore reducing the need for a doctor. What BS! A true sign that people are stupid or trying hard to find an argument against something where there is none to be made.

[karynnj]

42. This post really answers everything

What they don't seem to get is that at the moment a bill with the type of universal service they want is just not in the cards. Even Kerry's bill is a long shot and they need to look at it versus the status quo not the ultimate health care bill.

It's amazing that you've accomplished what you have with all these problems in the background. You're amazing.

[TayTay]

43. It really does.

WEL, this is awesome. Tell them this in Boston this summer. Many times. (With big wet kisses.)

[Mass]

14. These people are idiots - They dont even realize that Kennedy

has already proposed a bill with what they are asking for. Why would Kerry rewrite a bill that Kennedy has already written.

At his point, this is pure stupidity. Nobody has ever said that KidsFirst is the end of the effort. Kerry himself said it was the beginning.

I was rereading the posts. Some of the issues these people propose are important issues that need to be seen as well. Somebody needs to offer bills to cover them. This does not mean that Kerry's proposal is bad.

[JohnKleeb]

15. Yep its meant to be a start not an end to all means

I FYI didn't know about Kennedy's bill, I am not surprised though.

[Mass]

18. I posted a link to his speech announcing the bill + other bills that the

Dems offered for healthcare in this post .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2545200&mesg_id=2548013

[Mass]

40. I can see this person is back on line.

I dont see the point of his posts.

Sure, it would be nice if Kerry had a global approach on these issues. He has not, or at least has not expressed it in a comprehensive bill. Does that justify blasting this plan? I just dont understand.

[JI7]

44. the person has an agenda and doesn't give a shit about health care for

anyone.

they respond to your post with a link to show Kerry as co sponser to Kennedy bill by saying "lets hope ?Kerry does somthing to get this passed".

if this person cared about health care and this passing they would have known about it . or after learning about it they would be contacting those who are not supporting it to support it. but instead the moron is on with stupid ass posts "but , but but".

according to these fools if you support health care aimed at any particular group rather than universal than you are endangering the system.

i guess these fools would have opposed medicaid, medicare, social security etc.