Most bizarre Hillary '08 speculation (w/ Kerry) ever.

[beachmom]

Andrew Sullivan has some guest bloggers on his site. Mostly, they're not interesting at all (one is a TNR writer and the other is a novelist). Then I read this, and found it both dismaying and amusing at the same time:

http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/04/second_banana.html

But one question about Hillary's possible candidacy continues to interest me: who will her no-doubt-male running mate be, and what persona will he adopt? Al Gore was the somber younger brother to Bill Cinton's exuberant chosen son and Dick Cheney comes on as George W's tough, rich uncle, but what auxiliarly-yet-subordinate-seeming psycho-familial-sexual role will Hillary's partner play? He could play kid brother, too, I guess, and if he turns out to be John Edwards, he'll be able to play it convincingly. But such a duo might lack traditional gravitas. Maybe Hillary should choose a kind of doting, proud father figure-- not someone as old and daft as Senator Byrd, but along those general lines. Or she could cast her number two as the loyal, devoted, supportive mate that her real husband has never been but that every ambitious woman dreams of having. This might be a job for John Kerry. They could hug a lot, and then he could stand aside -- and down a step -- and nod and smile and give her the thumbs-up sign while she orates horizonward about her 'vision.'

Tricky business. Any suggestions?

On one hand: NO WAY IN HELL!!!!

On the other hand, I like that he is being characterized on a personal level as being a supportive mate that every ambitious woman dreams of having.

But mostly, this is just plain bizarre. So unlike if the nominee is a man, the running mate to a woman must be cast in a family role? Like a brother, father, or husband? It may not be fair (for women), but it might be the way it has to be.

Anyway, if anyone has that picture of Hillary doting on Kerry (there is one, isn't there), please post, just because I'm curious to see it again.

[TayTay]

1. See, I knew that comment about Kerry being the first husband

you regret ever meeting was false. He's the second husband that you met after you've grown up and realize that you want a presence in your life who is not going to take off one day on a whim and not return for two weeks with a lame excuse about 'needing some space.'

This is hilarious. Damn.

[beachmom]

7. Yeah, now I think about that, that made me SO mad at the time

* teaching me golf? Yeah, right. Here is my scenario, as I saw it at the time:

* is the popular kid who's SO cute and all the girls love him. You don't know him that well, but he's really funny and SO cool. John Kerry, OTOH, is quieter and more hard working. He has some really good friends but he can't be bothered with being the most popular kid. He's more interested in being kind and making the world a better place.

So you marry *, and it's the most beautiful wedding because, you know, he's totally rich and the family spares no expense. You're so happy. But within a year of the marriage, you realize he's not the man you thought he was. He drinks too much, he doesn't care what you think, makes fun of you, in fact, and he goes out all the time without you. You confront him with these problems, and he cruelly tells you that he can do whatever he wants. You chose to marry him, and now you have to live with the consequences. You're so unhappy you decide you want to leave him. But his awful family intimidates and threatens you that you will regret it, and they'll take everything away from you and make your life hell. You contemplate suicide. But somehow you find it in you to divorce him anyway. You're left broke and alone as George has turned all of your mutual friends against you and emptied your bank accounts, but the burden of living with a cruel man has been lifted. You are free.

You've begun to heal from that painful chapter in your life, and by chance, you run into your old classmate John, and you're actually really happy to see him. You hadn't given him a second look back in high school. He seemed nice, but you were too infatuated with George back then, to give him much thought. But now that you've gone through all of that, you DO give him a second look, and after a few dates, you think -- hey, I could spend the rest of my life with this guy. He's everything George is not: caring, compassionate, responsible, loving, considerate, faithful. You realize you made a mistake the first time by buying into the superficial and not bothering to look at what really mattered: that you want a husband who loves you, who will never lie to you, and who truly will be there for you through thick and thin. You accept his marriage proposal. Although the wedding isn't as glamorous as your first, you settle down with John, and every year is better than the previous. You have met your true love.

"You", of course, is the electorate. Here's hoping the wedding is on January 20, 2009.

[whometense]

8. Great post!!

And yeah, what you said. :-)

I've always gone for the steady faithful type, myself. :loveya:

[ProSense]

9. Excellent premise, but a twist

if you don't mind (I would never have pined for Bush :puke: ):

Kerry is the guy you secretly yearned for, but didn't want to seem uncool when all the OTHER girls were pining away for the class jerk. Deep in your heart you know he is everything the class jerk isn't, but you keep that sentiment where it's safe: in your heart. You graduate and go on with your life, always thinking about this guy, hoping that if you someday run into him, you'll hit it off and get married.

Well, life goes on and you've married a wonderful man. No harm: The beauty about JK is he's the right man for the country, and the wedding is tentativly planned for January 20, 2009.

[beachmom]

10. Well, except the electorate DID go for him (fraud aside)

I guess my metaphor is electing someone president is like marrying someone. I know people who voted for *, and they did so because of the tough guy thing. And they let the mean kids (the press) tell them that JK was weird and aloof and all that stuff. But now that everything is broken, they might look again, and realize he is their president.

[ProSense]

11. I got the metaphor, just added a twist.

I found this article * manliness interesting

Outmoded concept of ‘manliness’ sets stage for protection racket

By Ellen Goodman | Comments(0)

For those who have ever wondered when a promise of protection becomes a protection racket, this is your moment.

We now have the forced admission that in 2003 George W. Bush himself approved the leaking of classified intelligence gathered before the Iraq War. He didn’t let it all leak out. He authorized a trickle of information buttressing his case that Saddam Hussein had been a nuclear threat.

Information that had already been discredited.

After manipulating this faucet of fear, the president then defended the war in the name of national security, casting himself as the country’s father-protector. In short, he sold himself as the person we needed to protect us from the fear he provoked. Welcome to the protection racket.

And lest you forget, his re-election campaign was run by the same racketeers. George W. was transformed from a conservative who was compassionate to a commander in chief who was unflappable. John Kerry was accused of the unmanly crime of nuance and caricatured as flip-floppable.

We were subjected to an endless strongman debate with Arnold Schwarzenegger leading the attack on “girlie men.”

Snip...

There’s something to be learned in the Bush debacle. Beware the call of the old manliness. Beware the man who ramps up the danger and offers himself as hero and security blanket. And beware the leader whose unwavering, unflappable, unnuanced and unjustified confidence in the face of risk becomes our disaster.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2569670&mesg_id=2569670

[JI7]

13. no, Bush is not popular and very unattractive

Bush is more like the loser who hung out with a certain "cooler" crowd just because they wanted to use him for his dad's money. but at parties and things, he was the one who was stuck standing outside alone while his "friends" were making out with the girls.

[beachmom]

14. Ah . . . read his biography

He was VERY popular at Yale, and also feared and despised once people got to know him. He was the class clown, the goofball cheerleader. Did you see "Journies with George"? Watch the way he charmed the pants off of all of the journalists. He seduced every last one of them. I realize that's hard to to see, because you like probably everyone here, never fell for him. But a LOT of people got seduced, and are now living to regret it.

BTW, ProSense -- I like the part where you say that you secretly kinda like John the whole time. You're right -- that's definitely in the scenario, too.

[ProSense]

2. Silly!

Dissing Bill Clinton for infidelity doesn't change the fact that Bush is the worst president (Yak!) ever. (Okay, so that was off topic, had to.) Having said that, all the women in Congress can be seen doting on Kerry at some point or other. It's natural. Having said this, it seems more RW Hillary touting again, but this time tempered with snark in the form of sexist BS.

[TayTay]

3. True. Barbara Milkulski called Kerry

a 'Galahad' who had helped to ensure women's rights in the days when there was only one or two women in the place. Yeah, I liked that.

[MH1]

5. My favorite part of

this is where he talks about people marching for women's rights: "...in a march that's not finished yet."

(c'mon listen to it again, if only just for that part. you know you want to. :-) )

[beachmom]

4. Well, as I said this is Sully's blog, so that is to be expected.

But you take what the guy is saying at face value, and here is the next question. What precisely are Teresa and Bill supposed to be doing when Hillary and John are hugging and all of that? Stare at the floor and ignore the implications? I mean, it's just . . . totally bizarre. Only in America, would we be attaching a sexual role to a running mate to a possible female presidential nominee.

And what of the Iraq War? Hawkish Hillary and Dovish John, playing some kind of role reversal of the sexes? (Kind of like the * male is pro-life while the wife is pro-choice). I could go on and on, why this has got to be the weirdest thing I have read yet about '08.

[TayTay]

6. So this is the new Hillary?

Nice bi-ceps. Cheesus. Bet she works out.

http://www.rosietheriveter.org/painting.htm

[karynnj]

12. Strange that it's negative for all, though most positive for Kerry

Kerry: Loyal, devoted, supportive are all positives traits, but they, with Kerry staying "down a step" (wouldn't that still leave him several inches taller), are all non-macho. As to hugging - I don't recall a lot of Mondale/Ferraro hugging. (I also can't picture Kerry as VP at this point.)

Bill: In his own way, he likely is loyal and supportive to Hillary. (The relationship with Monica was disgusting partially as there was no emotional relationship.)

Hillary: Would likely not be looking for a spouse, brother, or father, but a partner to back her in running for President. It's also saying her marriage is bad.

[ginnyinWI]

15. don't think it would ever happen

She'd be setting herself up to be outshone by her veep. I think candidates usually want someone less powerful, attractive, or strong, to make themselves look like the rightful top of the ticket.

[karynnj]

16. The whole dynamic of Hillary and anyone is different

- She would be the first woman and to complicate matters her husband is Bill Clinton, who can eclipse almost anyone. Watching the Philadelphia appearance of Kerry and Clinton - Kerry, as Presidential candidate, was NOT eclipsed, but that couldn't be seen from the non-CSPAN coverage. But anyone running as VP, including Kerry, would have a hard time getting any oxygen. I seriously doubt Kerry would take the VP slot in a Clinton administration.

There's nothing in it for him. Bill Clinton will be the unofficial helper - and the likely diplomat. Kerry is unlikely to be a viable candidate at age 72, if Hillary gets 2 terms. (athough I guess that's McCain's age and Kerry is far more fit). They would also be highly unlikely to offer it - because it was clear they didn't go any further than they had to to support him in 2004 and they carry MA anyway.

I do think she would pick someone like Edwards or Warner (I quess kid brothers).

[beachmom]

17. Excellent analysis, Karynnj

I don't think Hillary would ever pick Kerry either (I just liked that he was characterized as a loving, caring husband). Hillary has carved out her position as a Centrist, but everyone outside of our world thinks she's some flaming liberal. Her biggest problem with the Left in the party (which apparently includes me, oddly enough) will come in the primaries. If she overcomes those hurdles and becomes the nominee, then she will only move to the right. Warner will be the obvious choice, not Edwards.

[karynnj]

18. Now that you mention it,

Warner would be good as would Bayh. (Bayh is about 50, bland was Governor of Indiana and will have been Senator for 10 years. )