Good people of the Kerry group. A very honored Massachusetts

[saltpoint]

Senator is under a little fire in GD here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x981193


We should raise a voice in his behalf.

[_dynamicdems]

1. Ah, the more things change, the more they....

stay the same.

Thanks for the heads up.

[saltpoint]

3. The thanks goes back to you, _dynamicdems.

:thumbsup:

:dem:

[jenndar]

2. Thanks, done. n/t

[saltpoint]

4. Sen. Kerry is a good man who's also a great public servant.

Not a bad combination, especially given the current climate.

Thanks, jenndar.

[jenndar]

6. I know.

There's very little in this world that would make me happier than to see him in the WH. Thanks again for the alert.

[saltpoint]

8. I watched a townhall meeting John Kerry did in a small town in

NW Iowa 2 weeks or so before the caucuses.

A lot of people were surprised that he finished first in Iowa, but after watching him in that meeting, it was clear to me that he resonated with those people. They came out on that very chilly evening to hear someone with some ideas speak to them, citizen-to-citizen, and they did not go away disappointed.

[jenndar]

11. And that's why I think he can do it again.

His love for the American people, and for the project that is America, has revealed itself in such an authentic way. And ultimately, that's way more important than "charisma."

[rox63]

5. Posted a bit of Kerry-love

Thanks for the heads-up! :)

[saltpoint]

7. Hi, rox63. You rock, and you rock totally.

[karynnj]

9. Thanks old Cursoe

By the way there's a 2008 question on DU.

[saltpoint]

10. Hey karynnj! Nice to see you. I'll hunt down the 2008 question and

see what's going on.

Thank you.

[ProSense]

12. There have been about six polls started in

GD. The place lit up after Kerry's announcement that he's considering another run. What'll happen when he announces? Anyway, it's thrilling.

[jenndar]

13. LOL, I know!!!

It's still exciting, though. I've been grinning since I read te article.

[saltpoint]

14. It is kinda thrilling. I'm uneasy about the character slams people

make on John Kerry, but at the same time, if he weren't a damned good candidate with major brains, I doubt if he'd provoke this level of outrage!

[karynnj]

15. Good point

and this time the one you told us about got over a hundred before a demented soul mentioned S&B.

Kerry does seem to have a great chance to be the anti- Hillary candidate. There are many others who are contending for it - most of whom the media would prefer, but most have weaknesses that become apparent as you see them more.

[saltpoint]

17. It will be interesting to see how it turns out. Sometimes I think

Kerry will run for sure, but other times I'm less certain.

[WildEyedLiberal]

16. You got it in one

"If he weren't a damned good candidate with major brains, I doubt he'd provoke this level of outrage."

John Kerry scares the bejesus out of the right-wingers, trolls, and Democrat-haters of all stripes, because he's the REAL DEAL.

[saltpoint]

18. I'm on the damned old side of things, and I have been very surprised

by the anti-Kerry sentiment on DU.

After George McGovern lost in a landslide to Richard Nixon, no progressive had any hope the next day. It was a dark time. McGovern was a minister's son from S. Dakota, a peace candidate, compassionate toward the poor -- the whole package. And he was buried alive. Only Massachusetts voted for him; he lost all 49 of the other states. That was one hell of a red sea.

Kerry is as progressive as McGovern, and as compassionate. I'm flabbergasted at the lack of critical thinking skills in people who believe that Bush/Cheney represents a healthier America than Kerry/Edwards would. Stupefied. And pissed off, too.

I expect the GOP to slam Kerry-Edwards because they represented a significant change in the way the Republicans do business. But when fellow Democrats do the slamming, that's just unwarranted and mean-spirited.

Thanks to you guys for throwing in some support for a damned good Massachusetts Senator tonight.

[JohnKleeb]

19. Y'all fought the good fight there

He's a fine guy who's done so much since the election. If people are going to play the lame game that no past nominee should run then you shouldn't support Gore or hell any of the 2004 candidates plus Bill Bradley for that matter. The lameness of the Skull and Bones arguement too, for fuck sakes it's one thing to disagree with Kerry on issues, it's wholly another thing to distort and belittle what he's done. You know I've been saying this for a while now but it was harder to prove fraud in 2004 than it was 2000, I hate saying this but even if Kerry hadn't conceded I think the Ohio courts would have given the election to Bush anyway and the only thing Kerry would have done would have been to give a symbolic blowjob to the activists. I have to say though in 2008 he has a tough road but anything can happen in the primaries. Hell anyone who is considering a run for president including the cocky Joe Biden should be able to run, a healthy demoracy has a wide range of voices in it.

[karynnj]

20. Contesting 2008 would have been unimaginable

The Democratic party itself would have likely publically condemned Kerry. The alternative is that the media and most establishment elements would have thoroughly decried the party's lack of judgment and respect for democracy. It would have been portrayed as an attempted coup 'in a time of war'.

Remember the media:

- did not make a big deal out of 2000 really having been stolen.
- did not blast then ignore the SBVT after Kerry et al found 100s of lies in the book - how many errors does it typically take?
- didn't criticize all the Republicans who ignored the purple heart band aids of the people they were speaking to - contrast with the Wellstone funeral where the right whipped up the view that political comments at a memorial for a politician was wrong.
- didn't care that Bush was wired. ("don't stop me now" - when no one was speaking)
- didn't care about the Republican connected company that was accused in many states of soliciting registrations - then sending in only the Republican and Independent ones.

That was the background Kerry faced.
- No genuine proof
- a hostile Ohio cout system
- a hostile federal court system
- a hostile media that distorted his personality, history and positions and those of his wife.

This really is just lack of rational thought on the part of the "he gave in" crowd.

[wisteria]

22. These are all good points.

I have always held the opinion that Senator Kerry would have appeared crazy to contest the 2004 election. Unfortunately, in politics, both sides, it has been suggested, have cheated. Nixon thought Kennedy's family bought votes for example and the Chicago mayor had rigged the voting to favor Kennedy. I personally think this is why the Dem party has been slow to address this issue and they don't make as large a stink over it as they should. It's not right and it has to change, but Senator Kerry wasn't in a position to do that. Some people will look for any excuse to put him down and others have worked so hard on these voting issues trying to make the system fair they are upset Kerry did not use his well known status to call attention to this noble cause. They don't see what harm may have come to their efforts if Kerry had actually contested the results. The important aspects of fairness in voting would have been lost in the high profile ridicule and dismissive attitudes of the Bush administration and the media.

[JohnKleeb]

25. 1876 was stolen by Rutherford B Hayes but

The Democrats let him become president because Hayes withdrew troops from the south thus ending reconstruction and setting back civil rights in the south for nearly a century. I guess that's why I consdier that election to being in my ten of my most important.

[wisteria]

26. I wasn't aware of the reason behind allowing him to becomePres..

Interesting.

[JohnKleeb]

27. The Great Compromise of 1876

It was obvious that Samuel Tilden had won the election and electoral votes too, Tilden won in large part I think due to people's tire of Reconstruction and Grant's corrupt administration.
Yeah Hayes is a forgotten president but his legacy is definely seen every time someone fights for civil rights. I thought it was fitting that election was exactly 100 years after Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Indepedence.

[karynnj]

32. The Republicans throw out the Chicago Nixon example

all the time. Illinois routinely had allegations of the Democratic Chicago and the Republican downstate area both cheating. The other thing is Kennedy still wins if he lost Illinois. The second claim they make is that we stole Texas.

[JohnKleeb]

23. Yeah I mean it was bad enough in 2000

Al Gore to many Americans still has 's the image of "Sore Loserman" and there was actual loads more proof in his case and the results were closer too. I have to say I don't know what I would have done in Kerry's situation, it was a hard decision. I think he thought he had a better chance fighting Bush as an important member of the opposition than he would in a futile symbolic court battle. That's what I think these people who whine that Kerry abandonded them don't get that Kerry faced a possibly futile court battle and decided he would be best off being a huge opponent of the Bush White House. The way Gore was treated in 2000 by the media when he protested that election. I for one can not imagine how Kerry would have been treated. These purer than thou really have a lot of nerve expecting every democratic politican to symbolically fellate them.

[beachmom]

28. So true -- look no further than that Berlusconi idiot

Now the nation's highest court has confirmed those results. Even President Bush, loyal to Mr. Berlusconi for help in Iraq, seems set to congratulate the winner and next prime minister, Romano Prodi.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/21/world/europe/21italy.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Concede, you big fat idiot!!!!

Had John Kerry not conceded and fought the results in Ohio, it would have been very difficult for me to defend him. You can fight particular instances of election fraud after the election as has been done, but to contest the election you have to prove that 60,000 votes went the wrong way. That is just ridiculous and next to impossible to prove, especially since the usual red flags for widespread fraud like 99% turnout rates in precincts in Ohio were not there. These people who are mad at him for conceding are just completely divorced from reality. There was NO international outrage at the results of this election (well, as far as it being illegitimate). The countries where a candidate successfully contested was when the international community immediately said there was election fraud like in the Ukraine. Nothing of the kind occurred in America. And perception is ALL that matters when you contest an election. And if people think the results are legit, and you contest it like Berlusconi did, you appear to be anti-democratic -- since the results didn't go your way, you're going to use the courts to force yourself to be president. Gore in 2000 had a much better case, and rightfully fought because it was down to a few hundred votes which really could have changed the results of the election.

John Kerry did the right thing in 2004 because he respects democracy, and nobody is going to persuade me otherwise.

[JohnKleeb]

29. Berlusconi's coalition lost by a few percentage points I saw

He's definely grasping at straws but I don't expect a whole lot from a man who got upset that Saddam Hussein was compared in a negative light to Benito Mussolini. Berlusconi is a big time admirer of El Duce and I believe his party was friendly with the Fascist Italian Party that Mussolini's granddaughter is involved with. Yeah I think he made the right decision too. It was a hard one I imagine but I believe the right one too. Right the difference in Florida was smaller than that of my graduating class in high school and meanwhile the difference in Ohio was bigger than my town and the next town over combined. He had a hard road and I think sad to say it would have failed.

[ginnyinWI]

30. and the other thing was the overall popular vote

which added legitimacy to *'s argument. Gore won the popular vote, Kerry didn't--as tabulated, anyway.

[whometense]

21. I think you make a great point there.

What's with all the "he shouldn't run" garbage?? It's completely undemocratic. That drives me crazy. Hell, I can run if I want to (I don't ;-)).

[JohnKleeb]

24. I dunno

I've always felt a healthy democracy in this case primary features a wide variety of voices. If some arrogant asshole like Joe Biden wants to run he can run. I think the problem with many of these activists is that they think they are the only ones in the Democratic Party and that everyone thinks like them. They don't understand the Democratic party was at its strongest point when it was a big tent party.

[saltpoint]

31. "a healthy democracy has a range of voices in it."

That's a bingo, JohnKleeb.

Bravo.