Eleanor Clift is at it again- Kerry reminded Dem's how much better Gore was

[wisteria]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12535070/site/newsweek/



John Kerry came much closer to winning than Goldwater, but Kerry turned out to be a wind-surfing dilettante who in retrospect reminded Democrats they had a better candidate in Gore. “It’s like the “Mrs. Robinson”: ‘Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you’,”

Oh, how I will relish giving this b*tch some grief when Kerry runs and wins. In the meantime, I can only keep writing her and praising Senator Kerry. I am sure she and Newsweek just love getting the Kerry is wonderful mail.

[Mass]

1. F* her.

[sandnsea]

2. Did she help kill Gore in 2000 too?

Should we dig up some of her own words to show her the problem wasn't with Gore or Kerry, but people like her who suffer from liberal inferiority and beat up our candidates so that people in Sioux City will like them.

[jenndar]

3. I disagree with her.

No offense to Al Gore, but I think JK raised the bar.

[karynnj]

5. I agree with you - I like Gore

but Kerry was far better both in his convention speech and the debates. The news media had moved substantially to the right after 2000 and there was an incumbent war president. Kerry also had to win a population where around half the people supported the war. The simplist idea that he could simply be anti-war was not true. Even among those who thought the war was a mistake, a large portion felt we had to end it properly.

As if that was confusing enough, the Democrats who were supposed to be supporting him had too much ego to do this. Bob Kerrey, who said he was a good friend said Kerry was wrong to say Bush let OBL escape at Tora Bora and Joe Biden pushed his 2 yes votes on defense spending rather than explain Kerry's. Hillary let out that she "told him to vote yes." There was a very good case to be made for Kerry's votes - which he made in the Senate, but he gave up on explaining it to the news media.

I suspect that with Clift, as with Goodman, Kerry is the bigger threat to Clinton, who they want almost for the sake of having a woman President.

[JohnKleeb]

6. Agree

You know as much as I like Gore it is fair to say that he's had three political phases. The first was when he was a conservative democratic senator from Tennensee, then a moderate DLC Democratic Vice President, and now he's more a liberal. I am not dissing him but it's a honest observation. Gore would make an interesting candidate I have to say. I just hope he's able to appeal to younger people better than he was in 2000. My classmates were much more comfortable with Kerry than Gore.

[jenndar]

9. Yup.

I was 20 in '00, and didn't even feel compelled to go to the polls. Most of my friends didn't vote or voted for Nader. Four years later, the same college campus was a totally different environment. A lot of people would probably like to think this was an ABB phenomenon, but I know from all the discussion about JK's record that he was really inspiring a lot of thought and interest in his cnadicacy, and in the voting process.

[JohnKleeb]

12. I was 13 in 2000

So I know what you mean, none of my friends voted then of course but Gore was a harder person to campaign for than Kerry to be honest. Gore is a great man but he to me is a huge question mark in hoe he runs his campaign this time around. Kerry is too but I think he did a much better job than Gore did.

[jenndar]

18. I actually feel bad about not voting,

because I was a Dem then, and I wanted and expected Gore to win. But I never saw myself volunteering for a campaign or anything like that. Contrasting that to my involvement in '04, I'd have to argue that JK was/is a much more exciting candidate.

[karynnj]

10. I have to admit I have a 20 year old who still says she

wouldn't have voted for Gore in 2000 (when she was 15 with no vote anyway) because she hates Tipper. She really really didn't like the warning labels on CDs. I don't know how typical she is - you're closer to her age.

One advantage that Gore currently has now is that he has taken no current positions on anything. As a critic and media person he doesn't have to. If he wanted to run, he would have to. People on DU now assume he is with them on everything - just as he's against all that they aren't. I don't even know what his position on Iraq at this point is. What is his plan?

On the social issues you are correct that he had 2 previous positions and they were him. I really don't know if he is liberal now. Being antiwar or pro-environmental aren't liberal/conservative. He would have a hard time taking very liberal social positions as they really differ from his past.

[JohnKleeb]

13. Right

I dont know if people really think much about the warning labels since music is nearly all digital but I know people dont like that. Gore isn't the firebreathing liberal they think he is and that's the problem to me. They treat him as if he is to Kerry's left though this just is blatantly false.

[fedupinBushcountry]

15. My son

who had his first presidential vote in 2000 and all his friends voted for Nader, they did not like Gore.

[jenndar]

16. Right, I don't really think Gore is a politician anymore.

I saw him refer to himself as a "recovering politician," and it seemed very genuine to me. I think he is interested and helpful, but I just don't think he's somebody who wants the presidency anymore.

A compare/contrast piece about the different campaigns would have made more sense in late 2004 or 2005. Now it's just petty. The "Nobody likes Kerry" meme was fairly effective in '04, and so people are picking it up again to shill for other candidates. Unfortunately, as others have pointed out, I'm not even sure this is intended as an argument for Al Gore, and that's sad, too.

[JohnKleeb]

4. Fuck her in the ear

This shit is annoying. Kerry did the best of any candidate against an incumbent war president and unlike Gore he actually won all the debaets against Bush. Hate admitting it but Gore did not do well in the 2000 debates.

[fedupinBushcountry]

7. To tell you the truth

I was ABB in 2000, and that is one of the main reasons I voted. It was the first time I voted in like 20 years. Gore was alright, but he was in no way as good a politician or campaigner as Kerry. IMO.

[JohnKleeb]

8. I'll be even more honest here

Gore had an easier election campaign than Kerry did. He was part of the incumbent administration and its prosperity. Kerry had a much more difficult challenge than Gore did becasue Kerry was challenging Bush rather than defending the Clinton-Gore years against the challenging Bush. I odn't hate or dislike Gore but this revisionist bullshit on Gore is disturbing to me. Not to say that all arguements in favor of Gore aren't well argued but there are some people who think Al Gore was our most liberal nominee since LBJ and this just isn't factually true.

[_dynamicdems]

11. Amen.

I'd like to strap that bitch's dilettante carcass to a kiteboard and send her out to sea.

[paulk]

14. what I'm sick of is dilettante "liberal" pundits like Ms. Clift

who think that repeating RNC talking points gives them some kind of inside the beltway cred.


There seems to be a real push on for Gore these days from the kool kidz - probably just the usual trying to drum up a story...

I really don't see Gore running - I think he's realized he can be much more effective pushing the issues closest to his heart outside of the government than in it.

[karynnj]

19. I agree with you I really don't see Gore running

I think 2000 was very hard on him and he knows this will be a hard fought nomination. What I dislike is that instead of just pushing Gore they are doing it at Kerry's expense and it is interesting that the intensity is ddirectly correlated to how well Kerry is at doing things. I really think that people on another thread are correct that the Gore push is intended to stop Kerry.

I see it as a dumb strategy, if Kerry continues to do the things he feels needs to be done for the country. What is nice is that at least so far, doing right and doing what will politicly help have been in sync. What I see is that Hillary's percent seems to have fallen from the low 40s into low 30s. If Gore really doesn't run, where will most of the Gore people go. DU is not typical. I assume the Gore people want experience, out of Iraq and no Hillary. By 2007, many of these may see only Kerry fits.

[wisteria]

21. Take a look at some analysis of recent Hillary/McCain poll numbers

The latest NBC/Wall Street Journal poll measures a McCain-Clinton presidential tête-à-tête for the first time since November 2005 and the results are intriguing, especially when you look at where the two have lost and gained ground. In just over five months, McCain has managed to widen his lead over Clinton from 2 points to 9 points. Last November, 44% said they would vote for McCain and 42% said they would vote for Clinton. Now, 46% would vote for McCain while 37% would pick Clinton. NBC/Journal pollster Jay Campbell (D) says there have been two shifts of note, in Clinton's support among young women and in McCain's support among the GOP base.

Clinton's support among women has taken a dive, especially among young women aged 18-49, while McCain has gained significantly


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3626796/

Now I realize polls are fairly meaningless now, but I found the drop for Hillary interesting. I think it is a fair assessment that McCain would beat Hillary in a general election. What makes our party think she could beat him. Senator Kerry definitely is in a better position to to that. Provided he and McCain actually do run. I personally don't see whom Hillary could beat, but that is just me and not meant as a bash towards her just a personal feeling.

[paulk]

22. the powers that be have never liked Kerry

I always have to laugh when he is portrayed as an insider, or the one chosen by the party establishment. Kerry's was the true grass roots campaign in 2004.

These forces are hard at work trying to derail a possible 2008 run. Using Gore in that effort is particularly disingenuous.

[ProSense]

17. What a

bitch, and ditto every said here.


Flip-flop?

It’s tempting to blame Kerry and the Brahmin elitism he radiates, but the election results were another chapter in a 40-year slide for the Democrats, beginning in 1964 when Lyndon Johnson won 90 percent of the electoral votes and more than 60 percent of the popular vote. Support for civil rights played a huge role in the party’s decline, but claiming the moral high ground isn’t going to win elections. “In the South, the Democrats are viewed as the party of social change and antiwar,” says former South Carolina governor Jim Hodges. “It’s time the party looked in the mirror. The problem is the party, not the candidate. Whatever accent they put on the next candidate, if the party continues to share the same image in the country, the results will be the same.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6472650/site/newsweek/

MS. CLIFT: Al Gore pandering to the Cuban vote in Florida over Elian Gonzalez.
http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?p=%22Eleanor+Clift%22+%22Al+Gore%22+2000&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&x=wrt&u=www.mclaughlin.com/library/transcript.asp%3Fid%3D187&w=%22eleanor+clift%22+%22al+gore%22+2000&d=bxp4d0aqMq9j&icp=1&.intl=us

MS. CLIFT: Excluding Ralph Nader and Pat Buchanan from all three debates, which deprived the American people of any real contrast and any real sparks, and the debated were a dud, especially for Al Gore.

http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?p=%22Eleanor+Clift%22+%22Al+Gore%22+2000&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&x=wrt&u=www.mclaughlin.com/library/transcript.asp%3Fid%3D187&w=%22eleanor+clift%22+%22al+gore%22+2000&d=bxp4d0aqMq9j&icp=1&.intl=us

[wisteria]

20. What exactly is Eleanore Clift? She seems to put down Dem's whenever

it appears the popular thing to do.She is no cheerleader for our side. So she isn't really a Dem supporter or Dem Pundit. Is she presenting herself as a fair and balanced political analyst? That can't be true because as you pointed out she "flip flops" figuring that people forgot what she said before or weren't paying attention to begin with.Is she actually a Republican masquerading as a Democrat? People like her are bad for our country and our political parties. She never has anything worthwhile to say. No unbiased criticisms and no real constructive analysis of events. She is more like a gossip columnist. And a bad one at that.

[TayTay]

23. CW columnist sslams Kerry? Yawn.

Eleanor Clift is a 'TV talk-show liberal.' She has been inside Washington for as long as I can remember. This was the bunch after the '04 election who advised the Dems that they had problems with 'values voters' and would have to veer center/right in order to win any more elections. This is the perceived wisdom from a 18 months ago. If Kerry and other prominent Dems start to lead a charge that embraces getting out of Iraq, standing up to the Admin on civil rights issues, enforcing a strong position on economic issues including health care and jobs, then those Dems are not embracing the 'common wisdom.' The columnists, as they so often are, are wrong and prominent people are not listening to them anymore.

It is obvious that the energy in the grassroots is not veering right and is actually becoming more leftish in nature. Who does this threaten? Clift gets introduced as the liberal but she doesn't act like one. She is as hidebound in her views as any Republican.

This is a sign of progress for Kerry in my book. In order to attract the ire of the 'liberal columnists' you first have to do something that gets them to notice you. I guess you can cross that one off the 'to do list.'

[ProSense]

24. Puke alert! (Sorry Tay! Meant to link to OP)

You'll need a bib for this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1058272&mesg_id=1058272


actually mean to

[wisteria]

25. Joe Klein, LOL, how obviously ridiculous he is.

He sounds like he wants to take Bush to bed. Frankly, after reading what he said, I can see why he has nothing good to say about Kerry.He seems to really get off on the swagger and John Wayne act.

[ProSense]

36. LOL! n/t

[wisteria]

28. I'm new to all these bullsh*t attacks, I will take a seasoned veterans

word for it that it is actually good they are noticing and acting accordingly. Still it irks me that she and Goodman get away with saying things they do about Senator Kerry. They are an embarrassment to all of us women, they are so obvious in their dishonest contempt for Kerry and pandering for Hillary.

[TayTay]

45. Who are these people and what have they been saying

Clift is inconsistent and is a self-hating liberal. She is one of the apologist class who thinks that the way to get ahead to find the nearest on-going parade and start following it.

Seriously, remember Nov of '04 when the pundits were falling all over themselves to tell us why Kerry 'failed' to get the values voters? Remember? They said that the Dems had to drop their principles on abortion rights, civil liberties and economic issues. (Among many others.) The pundits said that the Dems could not win because liberalism itself was dead and could never be revived. These people have been all over the map on this since, trying to join the nearest parade, only this time the cycle is so volatile that this is no parade.

This ignores the fact that Kerry *increased* his vote by over 6 million from 2000. It also ignores the fact that he really did well with younger voters who voted for him in huge numbers. I always thought these were signs of a change to come. It will not be an easy change, but change is coming. The punditocracy will not see this change coming and will gloss over it until they have to see it, a day late and dollar short.

Clift, Goodman, Klein, eh. I said last year that nobody knows nothing and I still think that nobody knows nothing. They are no more accurate than anyone else. (Hell, didn't the Dean rise and fall in that last cycle teach anyone anything? Why aren't pundits ever fired for being inaccurate?)

[JI7]

26. Gore was vice president for 8 years

in what was overall a successful presidency. yet the election was still close.

KErry ran against a war time asshole who was incumbant after going through a competitive primary.

[JohnKleeb]

27. Which is what I said

Thank you, the people who slam Kerry to no end but act like Gore is Mr. Untouchable don't get that or they choose not to.

[JI7]

29. i wish Al Gore would decide to run

i think these assholes take comfort in the fact that he most likely isn't going to run so they wouldn't really have to support him. they can just use him to bash Kerry.

i wish he would run so we can see where they really stand and how much they get behind Gore.

[JohnKleeb]

30. Hell the way these people are

Many of them would get behind Hiliary or even Biden before Kerry because they're still pissed that Kerry beat their candidates in the 2004 primaries. They really are pathetic.

[karynnj]

31. I hope he doesn't run, but that he doesn't completely

dash their hopes for a long time. The Gore people are essentially a holding tank of a mixed bag of people who are in the not Hillary camp. (If they considered Hillary an option, they wouldn't be looking.) I assume that the DU people and those in the population who are rethinking Gore are likely different. Clift is resurrecting the 2000 Al Gore, a pretty moderate Democrat, but the DU people are behind the angry Gore. Gore, if he opts to run will need to define all his positions - he can't win as simply being angry. Global warming, though important, is really not a high priority voting issue.

If Gore doesn't run, who is strongest on Global warming (and stronger on other environmental issues - Kerry. Who is leading on Iraq, Kerry though Feingold wants it as his issue. Feingold may win on this because of the IWR, but he may have problems raising money or being considered viable. Edwards has a slim resume and did not blow out the Cheney debate (to say the least). Those choosing Gore as a save choice for a leader who is not Hillary and who has a clear Iraq stand to get out, may in the cold light of the election season rule out each candidate in turn until they are left with Kerry.

[JohnKleeb]

32. I think Kerry even if Gore ran is the better of the two on the environment

Gore remains a huge question mark. Which Gore will we see, the 1988 Gore that ran as a conservative democrat or the one in 2000, or even the one we see now. Its so damned confusing to me.

[JI7]

33. even Gore's on record as saying Kerry has a better record

on the environment.

[JohnKleeb]

35. I didn't know that

Wowie. I like Gore very much but I sincerely think his supporters who are expecting a "progressive" are going to be disappointed. They'll reinvent anyone it seems to suit their purposes of bashing Democrats they don't like.

[karynnj]

37. I agree, Prosense has a wonderful set of articles

on Kerry's environmental record - The League of Conservation voters gave Kerry a career average of 92 compared to Gore's 64.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=273&topic_id=84322&mesg_id=84345

[JohnKleeb]

38. 65? Damn I Thought it would be much better

Lincoln Chafee's record is better than that.

[karynnj]

40. Actually, 64 - I am a really lousy typist

Edwards was in the same range as Gore. (In one of Posense's references, they look at both Kerry and Edwards)

[JohnKleeb]

42. I'm more disappointed in Gore than Edwards on this

Since Gore's reputation is that of an avid environmentalist.

[JI7]

41. Kerry's record is much better

a big reason for Gore being known on it is because he was vice president. and he knew about the issue more than Clinton. Kerry has not had a national position where he could use it yet. he was a national candidate, but that's different from actually being able to serve and talk about. but his own record is much better as Gore himself would even say.

[JohnKleeb]

43. Kerry's 92 is amazing

Did y'all hear about Kos jumping on the LCV for endorsing Chafee's reelection and deriding them as environment fanatics and single issue voters. I Want a democart in that seat but Kos is being a huge hypocrite in taht case since hte only reason why he loves Jack Murtha so much is Murtha's recent opposition to the war. Any wonder that he's only sold a few thousand of his book.

[ProSense]

34. I don't care who runs!

I'm ready to rumble.

[karynnj]

39. You are amazing - your set of articles really

answer this as well as your other incredible posts filled with relevant information.

[ProSense]

44. Thanks!

I'm building a Kerry file for my own enjoyment. Thank God for the Internet. Imagine searching and pulling information together without it.

Anyway, it really makes me mad when journalists write lame articles because they're too lazy to do the due diligence. Then there are the totally disingenuos types who have no business calling themselves journalists.