did you all see this poll?

[ginnyinWI]

Sorry if you did already--I was away from home since Friday morning. But it's exciting--Kerry in a landslide with DU voters.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=298876

[JohnKleeb]

1. I am telling you, I am shocked but impressed

[New Earth]

2. yes but that's just 2004 election forum

i saw a poll in GD Politics earlier that had Clark winning, and ample anti-Kerry posts....

[JohnKleeb]

3. No offense to anyone who supported Clark here but I never saw the appeal

I dont know why, maybe its because I am part Yugoslav and an opponent of Kosovo(long story), I Dunno.

[ginnyinWI]

4. I did support Wes Clark at first

I started paying attention in Sept. 2003, just when Clark was entering the race. Didn't know much about any of the candidates. But gradually I got less excited when I compared his answers to Kerry's in the debates--JK was just so intelligent and on-target!! So by December I was a Kerrycrat! :) Voted for him in my primary, although I didn't know a heck of a lot about him, and still liked what Dean was saying, and Edwards. I liked what Dean said, but I didn't like his tempermental nature. And Edwards was just not experienced enough in Washington politics for me to believe he could go against the Bush machine.

edit: I realized I didn't answer the question about Clark. I liked him because of his military experience, and the fact that he seemed really honest, plain-spoken, and not political. At first I assumed Kerry was too much of a D.C. insider to be for real--until I learned about his life, and then I was super-impressed! The VVAW part especially helped win me over.

[JohnKleeb]

5. well I just never saw the appeal honest

I was of the belief, it may be wrong but I think many people supported him because of the idea that they thought he would be indestructable against Bush because he was a general, the funny thing is the purists claim thats how Kerry people claimed Kerry would be. I hated being a minority here during hte primary days btw, not big on Dean or Clark made it tough for me to fit in.

[GRLMGC]

6. Yeah

Also, they weren't able to win the primaries. Clark went into too late and unprepared and dropped out early. Dean spent all of his money too early and wasn't able to fight back effectively. It wasn't their time and all of these conspiracy theories about how they were sabotaged because they were too much of a threat to Democratic authority are dumb.

[JohnKleeb]

7. of course

and the thing is Clark getting in to the race was pushed by some pretty high up Dems. I dont hate or dislike the man, I just never saw the appeal, same with Dean.

[ginnyinWI]

8. also

according to Paul Alexander in "The Candidate", Dean started regularly having too big a mouth, saying things that hurt him politically--like that he wanted to win over people with pick-up trucks and Confederate flags in the south.

[JohnKleeb]

11. which offended me as a southerner honestly

[JI7]

44. yeah

they do claim the Kerry people were saying how he would be indestructable against Bush but most or none were saying that from what i remember.of course there weren't that many of us then compared to supporters of others. it's still the same now.

the Kerry people usually supported him by bringing up the things he did through the years . his record on the environment, his investigations etc.

and the people angry about Kerry as electable thing are ones who also used that as reason why they didn't support Kucinich even though he was really anti war and voted against the IWR.

[JohnKleeb]

47. I always bring that up as an example of their hypocrisy

Yep many of them were too cowardly to support Kucinich. Yes, blm always brought up the investigations, Octafish too.

[sandnsea]

36. Main Street, Flags & the 4th of July

Backyard bbq's and kids swimming at the city pool. That was the appeal of Clark. I think he's a pretty good guy and most of what I've read leads me to believe he'd be a good President. I think he carried out the President's policies in Kosovo and with minimal loss of life. Yugoslavia is better off without Milosevic, and at least there was NATO agreement. My problem with Clark is that I still don't know how he views the Reagan years. I've never seen anything to indicate that he realizes what a disaster those policies ended up being for the world.

[Name removed]

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[JohnKleeb]

52. I can disagree with Kerry on this you know

[GRLMGC]

53. This is rude

He stated his opinion. He didn't attack Clark's character. He stated his opinion and his misgivings about a conflict where he may have lost family members. This isn't your forum. We can say what we want without fear of Kerry bashers and whatnot. We don't go into the Clark supporters forum and post things there. It's rude.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[JI7]

63. hey, lets let this go, i'm sure Frenchie didn't mean anything bad

[GRLMGC]

64. Well her tone was very condescending

I don't take kindly to that. I'll let this go as long as she stops posting here.

[Rhiannon12866]

83. I agree with you

Going after JohnKleeb just isn't acceptable here. He is just here to support John Kerry, as we all are, and nobody's bashing Wes Clark. This is not the place to bash John Kerry. And there are better places to promote Gen. Clark, but I have nothing against him and I don't think John does, either. I'd love to see him as our next Secretary of Defense. He's brilliant at this, and has a unique understanding, unlike the current administration.:shrug:

[Rhiannon12866]

74. I agree

We all are Kerry supporters here, but that doesn't mean that we dislike Gen. Clark. He is brilliant in his field and I looked forward to him taking a prominent place in a Kerry administration, looking out for us and for our troops, which certainly isn't being done by the current Secretary of Defense and our current administration.:-(

[JohnKleeb]

75. our current secretary of defense is a fuckin crook

[angrydemocrat]

81. btw THIS WASN'T NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT

I DON'T LIKE CLARK. GO UP TO THE TOP AND CLICK THE LINK AND DO IN THAT THREAD AND READ #149 AND SEE FOR YOURSELF.

[Rhiannon12866]

67. Nobody's disputing that Clark is a brilliant man, in his field

He is an expert and did extremely well in Kosovo, and just understands what we are facing. We could surely use him as our current Secretary of Defense, since what we have now has totally let us down and put our troops in even more danger, something that Gen. Clark understands and appreciates.

But why bash John Kerry, or Bill Clinton? And John Edwards? I was very proud to support John Kerry as my presidential candidate, and thought that John Edwards was an inspired choice for VP, since he lent much-needed warmth to the ticket. And I have no doubt that they would have embraced the intelligence of Gen. Clark, which the Republicans sure aren't doing. We need to call on our best, in these tough times. Gen. Clark is one of them. The current nominations and those already in place are not. If we had Kerry as president, our best would have a chance to shine. But, instead, we're stuck with the "torture guy" and the one who ignored the 9/11 bin Laden memos. Do you feel like traveling overseas? I'm staying home.
:scared:

[bush_is_wacko]

9. I can't believe Wes Clark is doing so well. He's an OK guy, for sure,

but the appeal is just not there for me. His appeal is slightly limited in this party at least I think so. Liberal Liberals will never go for him!

[New Earth]

10. it's all my fault

Kerry was winning until i posted in the GD Poll that Kerry was winning in 2004 Election. looks like maybe they all decided to come over and change it :cry: sorry guys :(

[ginnyinWI]

12. geeze Faye

you really did it this time! :) it's ok we forgive you! :grouphug:

[New Earth]

13. now they're all coming to yell at me

:cry:

[vinessa4freedom]

16. no worry's Faye...

fortunately Kerry is the rock solid best man for the job. DUer's have to get a grip. A lot of people are just whiny because of the past election farce. Can I quote angydemocrat here: "KERRY, KERRY KERRY!!!!!!":)

[vinessa4freedom]

17. p.s.

i think somebody must be stuffing the ballot box LOL

[bush_is_wacko]

14. I wouldn't worry Faye. Kerry has plenty of time to show America

he is THE man! The Kerry/Boxer/Conyers/Tubbs-Jones and now Obama, Cobb, Kennedy, Reid, etc, etc, rebellion has just begun. there is plenty of time for the TRUTH to come to light!

[GRLMGC]

15. Besides, it's a stupid DU poll

DU doesn't represent most people.

[New Earth]

18. look they're so mean!

lol :cry: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=298876&mesg_id=298876

down toward the bottom.

i want my mommy :scared:

[GRLMGC]

19. wow, they're assholes

but then again, that's not surprising.

[robbedvoter]

21. You may want to revisit that. It may make you feel better about

assholes ;-)

[New Earth]

22. i saw

we all kissed and made up :D

i'm a bitch i can't help it.....then i feel bad when i'm done being a bitch....i might need psychological help or something :shrug:

[angrydemocrat]

37. LMAO

Whatever! Go get your bad ass posse and send them marching in we are scared :scared: You got lost when you came here you need directions to find your way out?

[vinessa4freedom]

20. I just posted on the one that said

John was 'history"--check it out Faye, I think you'd be proud. I didn't single out that poster, either.

People are trying to get your hackles up because they obviously associate themselves with the words "stupid" and "ass" it's not your fault they misunderstood you. They should get their consciences checked.

Keep smiling, Kerrycrat!:hi: :hug:

[angrydemocrat]

23. HEY We Need Some Fighters In This Thread

It is the attack of the Clarkies LMAO.

[New Earth]

24. well

i already told them i was sorry and they forgave me, we kissed and made up.

[angrydemocrat]

27. LMAO

Not me:evilgrin:

[Name removed]

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[New Earth]

26. lol

man you crack me up....i did see you tearing them up. thanks for defending on me that, even tho i basically started it. :)

[Name removed]

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[JI7]

45. yeah, it's nothing to get excited or disappointed about

i never vote in them.

[angrydemocrat]

29. LMAO

I must really have them pissed they are rounding up there posse LMAO. They have got there votes up to 92 now and some are realling getting stupid in their remarks. I'm still LMAO over Freddie.

[New Earth]

30. i still believe

that they purposely came over to change the KERRY WINNING POLL.

that's my opinion and i'm sticking to it x(

[Name removed]

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[New Earth]

35. lololollolol

[FrenchieCat]

50. Jeeze.....

Pretty awful, naming names and all!

[Name removed]

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[JI7]

58. come on now, that's not very nice, Frenchie is a good person

she didn't do anything to attack Kerry.

[FrenchieCat]

69. OK, My last post here....

I really didn't mean to offend anyone, and if I did, I apologize....but at the same time, I just wanted to say that naming posters names here may not be the best thing. We have a rule about that on our forum, ya know. We discuss what some may have posted....but we don't identify them by name.

Remember that although most that are not "Kerry" supporters may refrain from posting, some may read this stuff.

Again, I am sorry to have intruded....although we get quite a few Deanies that come on our Forum, and we just welcome them in...even if what they have to say is not a song to the choir. As long as they take the right approach and don't just start posting a bunch of lies, we are open to discussion. Remember that if anyone ever wants a question answered about Wes Clark, we have the info.

Who knows, we may all be working together again real soon. No need to build any acrimony.

Y'all are welcome at our Forum anytime.:-)

[Name removed]

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[JI7]

76. yeah, people should be welcome

but i think the response to Kleeb was something that should be done if it was in one of the other forums since these aren't usually to debate between various candidates.

this place does welcome others, and there is a Dean supporter who regularly comes on here but it's not to debate between candidates it's mostly just to get into light conversation and other things which don't involve arguing about various politicians.

Kleeb is more fo a Kucinich guy than Kerry also. but he doesn't come on to argue about which is better. and i think that's what these forums are mostly about. so others are welcome here.

if people do think some things being said in the other forums are way over the top i do recommend alerting rather than replying since it will just result in a long argument that wont do much good. better to alert the mods and let them take care of it. i think this is the best way to deal with some of the things people may say in other forums.

[angrydemocrat]

79. I Already know that other supporters of other candidates

come if here. I know all about it I'm hear everyday I talk to them everyday, BUT IF YOU CALL WHAT SHE DID NOT RUDE SO BE OTHERS DID! AND WE HAVE A RIGHT TO SPEAK UP AS WELL! AND DON'T COME OFF WITH THIS SHIT AS IF I DON'T KNOW WE HAVE DEAN SUPPORTERS AND OTHERS IN HERE! LIKE I SAID SHE WAS RUDE AS HELL AND READ THE OTHER THOUGHT THE SAME!

[JI7]

82. i believe that was acknowledged and she apologized

there is no reason to keep attacking her for it .

[Rhiannon12866]

77. Everyone on DU should be welcome on any forum at any time

We all support Democratic candidates. We just have to be sensitive to not bashing candidates that others support. Kucinich was my candidate. But I supported and voted for Kerry. I know that we have to make compromises. Gen. Clark is a brilliant man and I hoped to see him take a prominent place in a Kerry administration.:-(

[GRLMGC]

59. This person has crashed other forums too

it's incredibly rude

[JI7]

60. Frenchie is a big supporter of Clark, she doesn't mean anything bad

lets not attack her personally.

things get a little heated sometimes and people feel a need to respond. but i'm sure her intent here was not to be rude.

[GRLMGC]

62. She attacked Kleeb's opinion

She shouldn't be posting here anyway. I don't go to the Clark forum to post there.

[JI7]

65. i know but i'm saying her intentions were not to attack or insult

Kleeb but more about her being a big Clark supporter and things just get to other people at times.

she said she wont do it again and lets just leave it at that.

[GRLMGC]

66. Ok, fine by me nt

[JohnKleeb]

68. I can drop it, I just wish people would try to understand where I am

coming from on things, that part of the world is the ancestral homeland of my mom's dad. I don't think Milosevic was a good guy at all, in fact I hate him a lot too, but do I feel uneasy about what happened yes, I have sorta pacifistic tendencies somewhat.

[JI7]

71. i understand

i think it's better for some if they ignore other forums all together if they can't hold back from wanting to challenge what is said.

if they feel something is being said that is not allowed then they should just alert rather than respond.

these forums are mostly a hang out to get away from the arguments in other forums and you should be able to say what you want without being challenged on it.

[angrydemocrat]

72. There is a Clark forum

She needs to go to it. We don't bother them and we expect the same that is what the other forums are for!

[JI7]

78. Clark supporters and others are allowed to come on here

but not to start debates about whether their guy is better than this guy type stuff.

but Frenchie has apologized and we should accept it.

[JohnKleeb]

73. Thanks

Yes, I came here to get away from the arguements, I dont post in GD anymore really.

[Rhiannon12866]

80. JohnKleeb and I share a political philosophy

We both supported Kucinich, but were willing to support Kerry. We are both anti-war, as Kucinich is, but hoped that Kerry had a sensible plan to get us out of this terrible situation. Nobody is attacking Wes Clark. He's a brilliant man, but just not our first choice for president. But he has so much experience, he should have an important role in the decisions now being made, and he, sadly, is not. What went on in Kosovo was unconscionable, and I also oppose war, as do John and Dennis Kucinich. But I do think that Gen. Clark understood the situation and acted honorably there. We could use his intelligence and cool head in the horrible mess that Bush* has caused in Iraq.:shrug:

[New Earth]

39. OMG i was right

look at this http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1522696#1523068

wtf kind of shit is that? so i was right, they did send an army over to kill the poll.

maybe we need to do the same for Kerry.

or should we not cheat like that? :hi:

[GRLMGC]

40. That's bizarre

I don't think there's any need for us to do that. It seems like a waste of time if there are organized efforts to skew the polls, haha.

[New Earth]

41. why the hell would they do something like that?

it's kind of sick if you think about it. sending non-DUers to come vote in a poll for Clark? that sounds a LITTLE unethical......not very honest if you ask me.....

[GRLMGC]

42. It's really, really weird nt

[New Earth]

43. it sounds like

some kind of GOP tactic :crazy:

[Name removed]

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[vinessa4freedom]

31. KERRY, KERRY, KERRY!

I knew that would get your attention. Good Lord Woman, I'm glad you're on our side. :7

[angrydemocrat]

32. Hahaha

What did you do go over there and read all that? They are sending in their posse now LMAO. But angrydem has one thing to say to them all "BRING IT ON!!" :evilgrin:

[vinessa4freedom]

33. they need a whole gang to take you on, girlfriend

They're on the defensive. You are the starting quarterback for the Kerry Offense--go get 'em tiger!

[JI7]

38. Freddie was making a joke

he often jokes in those type of ways. it is true that Kerry lost all DU polls during the primaries and even now he usually does.

Freddie was just making a point that DU polls don't mean anything and he is right that's why i never vote in any of them .

[angrydemocrat]

48. I Don't Doubt Kerry Lost Most DU Poll

The way these people are it wouldn't shock me if he didn't lose them all LOL. But I didn't take it as a joke when he said Kerry won because the machines were rigged. What I did find to be a joke was the part that the proof was Clark won all the DU almost all the DU polls and Kerry didn't. Now that I found to be a joke.

But if I took it wrong I'm sorry. But apparently others took it the same. I don't know the guy. But also it is hard to tell which ones are serious and which ones aren't because their are some serious fruit loops here at DU.

[JI7]

49. the entire thing was part of the joke

he often does things like that to make fun of people who take things like DU polls so seriously.

[angrydemocrat]

54. Well At Least I Know

Hell I know not to take the polls serious but if you read those post some of those people really do. I thought it was another Clarkie being serious and had it been my statement would have been appropriate. But I have seen some of these fruit loops at DU believe something and say something more ridiculous than that. Like I said it is hard to to tell who is joking and who isn't around here unless you actually know the person. And that is the first time I remember running in to him. And I must say I have stayed secluded in this forum until recently and now I go out in the election forum. I still stay out of the general discussion. So there are many I don't know.

[JI7]

55. yeah, but who cares if they take it seriously

they are allowed to come on and vote in the polls and get others to do it also.

if you know not to take the polls seriously then it's not really an issue at all.

i never vote in the polls myself for that reason.

[Name removed]

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[Moderator]

85. locking

this thread has gotten too out-of control