"Since you did something good, I'm going to take this opportunity...

[rockymountaindem]

to dredge up all the bad things you've done in the past and criticize them now."

That's basically what people are saying to Senator Bayh and others. Is it any wonder this kind of acrimony gets ignored by our representatives? It's like "so here I do something you like and all you can talk about is how bad I am?"

Then, anyone who brings up the truth about how Bayh doesn't necessarily deserve his bad reputation gets called a DLC apologist or a sellout.

Remind me why I come to DU?

[whometense]

1. Not for rational discourse,

that's for sure. ;-) That only exists in the Kerry forum.

I was looking at a thread in GD where they were saying that none of the dem senators has ever done anything for their base. And patting himelf on the back for "making" them vote no on Rice. Sheesh.

I was just working on a blog post on the same subject - I was calling it macromanagement - online loser telling senators who have been elected how to do their jobs. They have as little respect as the repukes do.

[LittleClarkie]

4. I thought that was bizaare

The Dems are acting this way because of US!!

Alittle overblown sense of importance there, I think.

[saracat]

15. I do think all the letters and emails from not just us but everywhere

made a difference. My local and state parties had a very organized effort as did some unions and various activist groups. I think it influenced these senators. And it also helps that Boxer hasn't been pilloried but is becoming more popular. They know they can get away with criticism now!

[LittleClarkie]

16. That's great, but sometimes DUers sound like we here did it all

I hope they mean "we" in an inclusive sense. But often it doesn't come across that way. We are not the base here. Glad to hear the local parties are getting their act together too, as well as unions and other groups. We'll get those Bush bastards yet.

[JohnKleeb]

18. It was a group effort

I pride myself on the work I did but I think there are others who also worked hard too.

[JI7]

2. yes, people bash, complain etc just to do it

there is a need to be seen as victims among some. to feel people aren't doing something for them.

[ginnyinWI]

3. ok I'll remind you...

it's because of us in this cozy Kerrycrat group! Forget the others! :) :grouphug:

[whometense]

5. Of course

it's us!!! :grouphug:

[GRLMGC]

6. The DLC

It's quite the boogeyman, isn't it? Apparently, it's the cause of all of life's problems. As if it's even that powerful.

[JohnKleeb]

8. The DLC is why I fell behind in class!

[saracat]

13. The DLC are pretty bad though. And they do cause a lot of the failures

of the party. I once proudly told Al From to his face that he and the DLC are anachronisms.!

[JohnKleeb]

14. They are a problem I agree but I think the main problem

is the DLC leadership yep like From and them, but there are some fine rank and file members of the DLC.

[LittleClarkie]

17. You sound like you know alot about them

Who was the DLC candidate this time? Was there an identifiable one? People keep trying to make Kerry that candidate, but I don't see it.

[JohnKleeb]

20. Kerry, Edwards, Dean, Lieberman all were or had been members

Dean wasnt counted as DLC because he left active office, if he were still Governor of Vermont, he would have been counted as a DLC member. The one the DLC really wanted this time was Lieberman, Lieberman is more of a social moderate, quite pro business, and hawkish on foreign policy.

[saracat]

21. Actually, don't take this the wrong way, their pick was allegedly Clark!

I liked Clark a lot but he was supposed to be a stalking horse for Bill and Hill. Kerry was rumoured to be the pick but the reality is , he was too liberal for them. Oddly, Dean was more of a DLCer then Kerry. He lost their support when he went anti-war.

[JohnKleeb]

22. I thought it was Lieberman

but I did hear the rumors that Clark was Bill and Hill's guy.

[saracat]

23. Lieberman was never seriously in contention.

Clark was considered a contender who could win.

[JohnKleeb]

24. That makes sense to me now

I remembre some of Clark's endorsements, pretty DLC like types.

[LittleClarkie]

29. No worries. Clark is who I would have guessed

He had strong ties to the Clintons for one thing.

Tsk, tsk, what's the world coming to when you can't trust a General to be pro-war. I mean really.

The most DLCish thing about Kerry is his war stance, and the fact that once in a blue moon he will vote with the Republicans if it's something he believes in, like fiscal responsibility. And Kerry only feels that way about this war because it's tied to terrorism, which has been a pet issue for him for a lot of years.

What do y'all think about the stance some take that terrorism wouldn't be a problem if we'd just get our noses out of other people's business? People like Kerry seem to disagree, but then he's got more experience in such things than most, from an international crime point of view.

I dunno, but I suspect that if the Taliban is anything like our social conservatives, backing out would only be seen by them as an invitation to move closer to their goals.

[Pirate Smile]

7. Or "you did something bad so I would rather have a Republican then you"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1530118

"Who would you rather unseat, Feinstein or Santorum?"

I'm not happy with Feinstein either but give me a friggin break.

[JohnKleeb]

9. I know, idiots

I bet you most of htem havent had a republican be their senator.

[saracat]

19. On the other hand, I couldn't vote for a pro life Democrat.

That is where I draw the line in the sand. I would rather have a pro choice Repuke. There I've said it. Actually I don't see how such a thing as an anti choice Dem is possible.

[Pirate Smile]

25. Pro life Dem v. RW wacky pro life Rethug is what it may be in the Penn

Senate race if Casey agrees to run.

I'll take it. We need the seat and Santorum needs to go.

[JohnKleeb]

26. Some pro life dems are also pretty good on economic issues

I prefer pro choice dems but if we can get a pro life dem who is decent, I'll be content.

[saracat]

28. Sorry John, You can't be a "decent"pro-life Dem

particularly in today's climate.

[JohnKleeb]

30. I can see where youre coming from

I don't know, I just think there are some good democrats who oppose abortion, I wold way prefer a pro choice one though that said. Tim Roemer who is anti abortion would make a terrible DNC chair for that and other reasons.

[saracat]

33. In that case, I think I would move.

Or maybe not vote. I could not betray myself with voting for someone who thinks I have less rights than a fetus. Sorry.I guess that makes me a lefty freeper, but abortion rights are just as important to me as the right to vote itself. I would be lobbying my heart out to find a pro choice Dem. I am sure there are some in Penn. Why can't they find one?

[JohnKleeb]

35. Its ok, I respect that opinion

I don't know who we could run in PA that is pro choice, because their governor, democrat Rendell is gonna be governor for a while. Casey is the son of a former governor and ran there. PA is very contradictory like that, with some pro choice republicans like Heinz, Specter and some pro life dems like Casey, many of the old new deal types, etc. Its one of the few states where the dems are more socially conservative but quite economically liberal.

[Pirate Smile]

39. It Catholics. I could understand when Roemer said (at a DNC Chair

forum) that a nun told him if he wasn't going to be a priest, he was going to have to go into to politics to try to make the world a better place.

I'm Catholic and the Catholic teachings are socially progressive and anti-war except when they get high-jacked by RW Priests who seem to only focus on abortion or homosexuals. Those guys need to join the Southern Baptists because they are in the wrong Church.

RCC has plenty of problems but on economic issues and on war, they are miles away from the Republican Party.

We still need people like Roemer in the party - but not as DNC Chair.

[JohnKleeb]

42. I am Catholic too

I dont see economic populism in Roemer at all though that said.

[Pirate Smile]

44. True. I just remembered he voted against Clinton's 93 budget and for

Bush's tax cuts. I don't know what the hell he is actually.

I forgot about that.

[Pirate Smile]

36. I don't know I'm not in Pennsylvania. I know they did a poll which showed

Casey 52%, Santorum 38%.

I think that is why they want him plus isn't there a long history of the Casey family in politics there. I'm not really familiar with it.

[JohnKleeb]

37. Yeah his father was governor

I know a little about Penn politics, and it seems to me if you're gonna want a socially liberal democrat, Philly would be the place to find one.

[Pirate Smile]

40. If Casey wins, Penn will have a pro-choice Repub and pro-life Dem. Ha

[JohnKleeb]

41. yeah

aint that weird. Specter is interesting tho, he sometimes will side with labor too, this and his relative social liberalism is what makes him hard to beat.

[Pirate Smile]

27. If you lived in Nevada and a pro-choice Republican ran against Harry

Reid, you would vote for the Republican?

[saracat]

34. Maybe. I don't like Reid anyway.

[Pirate Smile]

38. OK. You know where you stand so that's cool. I can understand if people

have a consistent pro-life position re abortion, death penalty, war, etc. It isn't my position but at least they aren't hypocrites about life.

I also think people can believe it personally and not promote it politically.

I like the current Democratic position to emphasize trying to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Who can disagree with that? The RW does because they don't want to do anything to help with birth control. That is a big time loser position for them.

[JohnKleeb]

10. Hell I am not even a Bayh fan

but in the lead up to an eventual democratic majority, youre gonna need to get democratic senators from firery red states like Indiana, the fact we can get dem there is good, and hes not totally terrible.

[Pirate Smile]

11. Exactly and some people say they would rather have them be Repukes.

I'll take the vote for Majority Leader with an independent Senator or DINO any day of the week.

Geez, we have to have control to investigate or do anything.

They make me want to pull my hair out.

This thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=296x1419 also drove me a little batty. We don't want to go after the RINO's in blue states? Are you kidding me? We have to get those seats or we will never control the Senate.

Either I am in an overly feisty mood or there are just a lot of people around here who don't understand the fact that to win back the Senate we need our Dems, our DINO's, picking off the seats of the RINO's we tend to like and beating the thugs like Santorum that we hate. We need to pick up 6 friggin seats and hold everything.

[JohnKleeb]

12. lemme tell ya, Ive been a Virginian my whole life

Ive had republican and democrats for senator and governor, and lemme tell you Mark Warner is such a breath of fresh air compared to George Allen and Jim Gilmore, he's not a huge leftist but he is a great guy who cares about people, same with the senate, Chuck Robb really did a good job for this state for three terms, I still miss him. If they want to build a majority in the congress, they should accept that our party is a big tent party.

[LittleClarkie]

31. Where in Virginia Kleeb?

I'm originally from Norfolk (or have we had this convo already?)

[JohnKleeb]

32. Northern, near DC

[Withywindle]

43. This makes no sense to me...

Reactionary adolescent bullshit. If a Senator does something you LIKE, you should be just as eager to tell them "Thank you" as you would be to blast them if they do something you don't like.

You don't have to pledge eternal fealty or eternal vengeance to anyone over any vote, for Chrissakes. But I do think positive reinforcement is very important.