The Pope - what exactly are we praying for?

[Matilda]

I'm having a problem reconciling what I've been taught about death
and the prayers for the recovery of Pope John Paul.

I can't help wondering why medical science is being stretched to the
limit to prolong his life for how long? Weeks, days perhaps? I'm
wondering why a man who has lived his life for God seems not to want
to meet him in death. It troubles me that he is clinging so fiercely
to this mortal life.

I'm wondering why we are not being asked to pray that he might have
a good death, rather than prolong his life in sickness and pain.

I'm not trying to be provocative; I see a genuine contradiction
here, and it troubles me. Christians are not supposed to fear
death, but this is not what I'm seeing. I'd be more at ease if the
Vatican announced that the doctors are simply trying to make the
Holy Father's last days more comfortable, instead of propogating
the myth that he will be well and back on the job before long. If
the Pope and the Vatican hierarchy can't come to terms with mortal
illness, how are the rest of us ordinary mortals supposed to cope?


Edit: clearer expression

[hedgehog]

1. Agreed

I'm praying for a quick recovery or happy death - as God wills (funny how no one remembers to say that in this case). I'm also praying for those making the decisions around John Paul. From here there is no greater argument against mandatory celibacy than the sight of that old man dying in a foreign place with no family around him. Who is looking out for his best interest?

[Cuban_Liberal]

2. God's will be done.

I think many have perfectly understandable senses of anxiety and grief at the thought of His Holiness' death, and that these are combined with genuine human affection and admiration for John Paul 2, the man; those combine logically and innocently enough into a hope that the Holy Father may recover from his instant illness. I don't believe that any of us are denying that JP2 is terminally ill with Parkinson's or believe that he will live for many more years, nor do I think that he or the Vatican hierarchy believe that. I truly believe that most of us simply want his mortal suffering to be eased and his remaining time on earth to be of the best quality possible, and an operation making it easier for him to breathe is certainly one way to do that.

:)

[Maeve]

3. I'm praying he has strength for the journey

Either back to health or on to death--both can be difficult.

Personally, I doubt they will tell us he's dying until they've given him the last rites, but that is part of the foolish secrecy that has grown up around the Vatican over the centuries. Too many church bureaucrats are game-players (a curse of all human bureaucracies) and secrecy is power in such games. But I think the Pope himself is probably dealing quite honestly with his own mortality, based on his previous writings and such.

[DemBones DemBones]

4. I'm not praying for him to live any longer than God wills it, only that

he will live that long. And of course I pray for him to have a happy death whenever his time comes. If I thought he were near death and suffering, I'd ask God to release him from life, but at this point I don't see that as being the case.

John Paul II has felt the peace that comes when we are near death -- he has talked about the peace that came over him when he was shot. Thus, I doubt that he fears death. I don't think anyone does when they've been near death, but that doesn't make people seek death before their time, either. I think John Paul II wants to continue living because he believes his mission is not yet ended.

[SOteric]

5. I don't interpret this as a fear of death

so much as a vehement clinging to his office on this earth. Perhaps he does fear death, but I point out that he is also reluctant to retire his position in the favour of another. So, perhaps he simply feels he's still got some mission which is left undone.

[AngryOldDem]

6. When his earthly mission is done

...that is when I believe he will go. I don't believe he is clinging to life -- as he has said, he has faith that he will remain among us until he is called home. I think he has come to terms very well with his mortality; I can't imagine otherwise what with all he has been through under the past 20-plus years.

I think there's a lesson in his life for all of us that we are to persevere and have faith, and continue to do our work as best we can, and live our lives to the fullest for whatever time we may have.

That said, I do think the Church needs to come to terms with modern science and its ability to extend life through many means. If a future Pope finds himself in a worse position healthwise, or becomes permanently incapacitated, there must be some way to compensate for that. Although I know that popes can resign, the tradition is firmly against that. That is part of why I also think JPII is continuing in the role.

[Stunster]

7. As a general point

I agree with you.

I've never understood praying for people who are old and ill not to die.

Let them be with the Lord in paradise, as the good thief was. Why ask God to keep them suffering on the cross?

So, in such cases, I simply commend the person to the Lord in general terms, asking neither for death nor a prolongation of life.

It's different if there is a reasonable prospect of a significant extension of life and a recovery of function. But when someone has entered a terminal decline, there's no point in asking that it be longer than it needs to be.

Here's something I wrote about intercessory prayer recently:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=8846&mesg_id=8896&page=

[Matilda]

8. Some answers on this thread have tapped into what bothers me most,

and that is that there may be those around him who currently have
power, but will lose it when he leaves this life. It is in their
own interests, not his, to prolong his life as long as possible.

I see a very old man, approaching the close of his life, kept alive
only by drugs and medical intervention, who is almost certainly no
longer able to carry out his duties. Many Vatican observers believe
that others have been making decisions and pronouncements in his
name for some time now. Cardinals coyly shy away from any questions
about the Papal succession, while you know they're all counting the
numbers and lobbying as hard as they can for the ballot to come.

I don't know how long the Holy Father has got - days, weeks, even
a month or two, but there is no way he will see out the year. I find
the spectacle of seeing him wheeled out for public consumption and
then wheeled back to his bed very distressing and even rather sordid.

In the long-term, I believe the current situation makes a very good
case for putting in place the mechanism for retirement of future
popes when they can no longer operate efficiently, but in the short-
term, I wish that some decency would prevail - let nature takes its
course, let someone who cares tell him it's all right to let go.

[Maeve]

9. Take comfort in the old truism

"He who enters the conclave a Pope, leave it a cardinal."

Several studies have indicated that past attempts to shape the future by stacking the college of cardinals have failed--the Spirit blows where the Spirit will and we could as easily get someone in the mold of John XXIII as a conservative.(Please, God!)

[demosincebirth]

10. I think I read some where, I may be wrong, where he talks

about suffering as one of the foundations of the Christian Faith.