Paul

[SemiCharmedQuark]

What is your take on Paul? My biggest issue with him is the fact that his writings are used to promote the "Faith without works" idea. I just don't believe that you can really believe something and not act on it. I think he was reacting against James and went completely the wrong direction with it.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

1. I believe that they aren't sure they are even his writings...

WE talked about the fact that the Catholic church freely admits that they don't know for 100% where the bible even came from and most of the writings aren't by who it says they are, but either students or people who think they know what they were getting at. Such is why Catholics are urged not to take it literally. They say the bible is a good guide on how to live, but since we don't know where it came from take it as it's given.

Duckie

[Matilda]

2. That's my understanding too.

We're inclined to think of Paul as rathr dogmatic and also something
of a misogynist, but scholars believe that more than one person
contributed to the writings we know as the letters of St. Paul.

They think a certain amount was added quite a while after the earlier
writings, and although I'm not sure exactly which parts, I suspect
it had a lot to do with pushing the patriarchal nature of the Church
after the first couple of centuries, and especially the idea of
women as secondary to their husbands.

I've been a reader at my church for quite a few years, and I've
certainly learned that some of the letters have quite a different
"feel" to others. Some I really enjoy reading, and some I have to
take a deep breath and "act" the reading, because I really can't
relate to it at all.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

3. There's a reason why the secon reading of every mass is his (or associates

of his like Luke)

St Paul established the mystical "heart" of many of the tenets of the Church. Alot of what he wrote in his epistles are at the center of the Cathechism

[DemBones DemBones]

4. Not that I've done an actual count, but aren't you exaggerating

to claim the second reading in every Mass is from Paul or one of his associates? Or does your disclaimer re: associates extend to the authorship of the entire N.T.?

Paul's big, I'll grant, but is he that big?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

8. The second reading on full masses is usually if not always an epistle

of Saint Paul.Romans 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews.

There may be some weeks where the second reading is from Acts of the Apostles or from the epistles of Peter, but, by and large, Paul (or his associates - by which I mean people who may have written on his behalf or whos authorship is attributed to Paul) is the man.

In many famous sermons over the last 1500 years Paul is referred to as "the Apostle". As in "as the Apostle said in his Letter to Timothy......"

[SemiCharmedQuark]

7. I think 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, Ephesians, and 2 Thessolonians are those

that are in question. I think the vast majority of scholars agree that Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Philemon, Galatians, Philippians and 1 Thessalonians and Philemon were written by Paul.

[DemBones DemBones]

5. What's the text they use to justify "Faith w/o works"?

If you know it offhand. I think I know, but I'm lazy about looking it up right now. ;-)

[SemiCharmedQuark]

6. Ephesians 2:8-9

But right after, he says that people are meant to do good works. But some people tend to quit reading after 2: 9. :)


Also Romans 3:28...on edit, I actually think this is the one that most people who claim this use.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

9. Just like our modern media - people tend to take one line out of context

to justify some false claim

[TrogL]

10. Barking mad with temporal lobe epilepsy

[sandnsea]

11. He was converting Jews

It's been a while since I've really delved into the various Books and specifically which was written to what group. But I remember when I did, it became clear to me that you can't understand what the Books mean unless you understand who is being spoken to. Paul's aim was truly to convert Jews, whereas the other Apostles didn't seem to have as much of a desire to convert the way Jews worshipped, etc. The Bible and Catholicism made alot more sense to me when I put it on top of Orthodox Judaism. Then, the whole thing flowed and so did alot of the faith and works and Jewish Law and all the rest. I wish I could be more informative here, but that would take days of research and pulling scripture out and all the rest. But I highly recommend this approach, it was an amazing process for me.

[Beer Snob-50]

12. I believe in 2 Cornithian, Paul talks about

faith without actions is hollow. YOu can say you are a believer in Christ, but without actually acting upon this it is nothing.