Well guys its gonna be a tough next few days

[JohnKleeb]

I dont know how I feel about Benedict but I will give him a chance, I also do believe that the Nazi shit is shit, the man was younger than 18 for most of WWII, people are acting like he was a man at that point.

[Zynx]

1. I'm going to give him a while since he may well be different as Pope.

[JohnKleeb]

4. Of course

I am willing to give him a chance.

[Stunster]

2. A first reflection on Papa Benedetto

I think the "social justice" v "personal morality" constrasts are not adequate. I think that Pope Benedict XVI believes that one can never solve the problems of poverty and injustice in the Third World if one doesn't confront the hedonistic materialism, egoism and consumerism of the First World. It's the latter that prevents a real solution to the former, and it does so by hiding behind the smug ideology of liberal secularism. If John Paul II administered a resounding slap to atheistic materialism (the ideology that underlay Communism), Benedict XVI may be the one who is going to give the big slap to secularism, the ideology underlying global capitalism.

The Cardinals have obviously decided that the fundamental problems of the world are rooted not in the South, but in the West. That's where the power of selfish individualism reigns supreme. The West takes instant self-gratification to be the highest law of human life. Papa Benedetto has set himself, and the Church he now leads, against that lie.

How that will play out in practice, God alone knows.

[JohnKleeb]

3. Interesting

I am gonna give him a chance despite the fact I really dont like him from what I know but the nazi stuff is wrong.

[DemBones DemBones]

5. Our new pope also believes that small groups of faithful Christians

are the best way to witness for Christianity and, from what I understand, thinks that the Church may best survive as a smaller Church made up of more committed individuals. Not unlike the ideas of the first Papa Benedetto, otherwise known as St. Benedict, founder of Western monasticism.

[Beware the Beast Man]

6. "best survive as a smaller Church." How?

That I find troublesome, the feeling that some may not cut it as Catholics.

[regnaD kciN]

20. Well, there's a real possibility...

...that "a smaller Church" is precisely what he may wind up with!

:eyes:

[JohnKleeb]

7. I dont know

I dont think I really am gonna like this guy, sigh, I am sorry if that gets anyone upset, what I am upset by though is the calling the church nazi and he himself a nazi. I dont like him I will admit but I will concede this, he wasnt a nazi.

[flaminbats]

8. understanding the true meaning of faith..

all enduring this parade of darkness are now free of vengeance. Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." :hippie:

[Princess Turandot]

9. well, The World Jewish Congress website..

http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/index.cfm

has a list of links from major Jewish Orgs which are very complementary of him on Catholic-Jewish relationships.

The links are on the right.

From the Anti-Defamation League:

"Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director, issued the following statement:

We welcome the new Papacy of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. From the Jewish perspective, the fact that he comes from Europe is important, because he brings with him an understanding and memory of the painful history of Europe and of the 20th Century experience of European Jewry.

Having lived through World War II, Cardinal Ratzinger has great sensitivity to Jewish history and the Holocaust. He has shown this sensitivity countless times, in meetings with Jewish leadership and in important statements condemning anti-Semitism and expressing profound sorrow for the Holocaust. We remember with great appreciation his Christmas reflections on December 29, 2000, when he memorably expressed remorse for the anti-Jewish attitudes that persisted through history, leading to "deplorable acts of violence" and the Holocaust. Cardinal Ratzinger said: "Even if the most recent, loathsome experience of the Shoah (Holocaust) was perpetrated in the name of an anti-Christian ideology, which tried to strike the Christian faith at its Abrahamic roots in the people of Israel, it cannot be denied that a certain insufficient resistance to this atrocity on the part of Christians can be explained by an inherited anti-Judaism present in the hearts of not a few Christians."

Though as a teenager he was a member of the Hitler Youth, all his life Cardinal Ratzinger has atoned for the fact. In our years of working on improving Catholic-Jewish ties, ADL has had opportunities to work with Cardinal Ratzinger. We look forward to continuing that relationship."

On the Nazi business, they are entitled to the definitive word, IMO.
As to what type of Pope he will be, who knows.

[JohnKleeb]

10. I am glad he's Jewish friendly

Someone should post that to the people who have called him a Nazi. I dont think I will like him as much as john paul II but I know hes not a nazi for sure.

[IronLionZion]

13. Yes, I know, I know

I'm sorry for calling him a Nazi earlier on DU. I feel like such an ass. The college of cardinals would not have elected him if that was the case.

As for his conservative views, I guarantee he won't be evil the way our Republicans are. Catholics are inherently kind and compassionate. I'll give the Holy Father a chance to show us what kind of leader he is.

Viva Il Papa! Long live our new Holy Father!

[IronLionZion]

11. Agreed, I read up more about his Nazi connections

His family was very much against the Nazis but he was forced to join the Hitler Youth by law at age 14. He was drafted into the Flak part of the Wehrmacht at age 16 and his job was to guard a BMW plant from American bombs. He hated it so much that he deserted and was later captured by Americans. He is most certainly NOT racist. He was younger than me, hell he was younger than you John.

I know I brought DU's attention to this issue earlier, but I will not judge him for those actions.

Joseph Ratzinger is our elected Holy Father. Pope Benedict the XVI deserves our respect. May God guide him in his decisions, and let him be wise and compassionate and give hope to the world.

[JohnKleeb]

12. Thats what Ive been telling people that for 90% of the war

he was younger than me. He didn't have the freedom I have against Bush to dissident and protest, if he had protested the nazis, he would have been sent to Dachau which is wehre I believe they sent their prisonsers. I dont like some of the stuff he has said but I will always defend him about this knowing what I know. People are so stupid to blame nazism for his conservative viewpoints, he was pretty progressive at the second vatican council, it was marxist influenced students that turned him right. Its sad thats the problem with teh far, far left to me, they really do alienate people who arent them on things like religion and stuff, and then that makes the said person move more and more right.

[imenja]

14. The Nazi stuff is shit

An article in a British paper linked in the lounge says he joined the Hitler youth when it was mandatory and then got a dispensation because he was in a seminary school.

If you ask me, the appointment of Ratzinger is simply another opportunity for hate mongering on this site.

[JohnKleeb]

15. It got one of my friends tombstoned since he couldnt take it anymore

Sigh, I am gonna miss him.

[imenja]

16. couldn't take the anti-Catholic remarks?

What did he do/say?

[JohnKleeb]

17. He asked to be banned

:( he was a friend and most of all someone who I could go to and who could go to me when we felt isolated and alone here.

[imenja]

18. I'm sorry

I hope you guys can keep in touch through e-mail or instant messenger.

[JohnKleeb]

19. I have his AIM sn, this is what prejudice does sigh

[Midlodemocrat]

24. John

Why don't you ask him to come back once the Pope stuff dies down? Maybe if he lurked for a while he would see that things have returned to DU normal.

[imenja]

26. have returned?

or will return at some distant point in the future? Nothing is normal now.

[Midlodemocrat]

29. I meant that after he lurked for a while

he would see that.

[IronLionZion]

31. The Catholic groups seems relatively normal and sensible

it's the Gun Dungeon where people are just flipping out like rabid monkeys over something they don't know much about.

[imenja]

32. Is the Pope going to take their guns away?

poor babies

[Spider Jerusalem]

21. Bit sad, really, isn't it?

If you'd told me yesterday that I'd find myself defending Ratzinger...with whom I have many disagreements...I'd have laughed. Yet today, I found myself doing just that re the Nazi accusations, and defending the record of Pius XII during WWII as well (and I'm very much a lapsed Catholic).

It's a bit disheartening to see the level of intolerance, hatred, and especially ignorance displayed over this issue. There are a surprising number of modern-day "Know-Nothings", it seems...

[Maeve]

23. I've also defended his youth on an e-list I belong to

Never expected that!

A reminder, folks--we aren't to use our forum to gripe about other DUers. Think constructive here!

[imenja]

25. Isn't that the truth

I feel exactly as you describe. I posted a thread in GD Politics asking if folks really wanted to drive the Catholic vote away. I got a few posts that were straight out of Know Nothing campaign speeches.

[etherealtruth]

22. As trite as it may sound...

..."we are the church." The church has survived for 2,000 because of its members. There have been horrific popes and wonderful popes----the church has survived. The church has taken positions that with time, education and reflection it has had to change completely----the church has survived.

I had certainly hoped that a there would be a third world pope, I like many have been disappointed.

If Pope Benedict XIV turns out to horrid or wonderful (the likelihood is somewhere in between) the church will probably survive---I had to qualify my statement with the term "probably," as everything the pope says will transmitted around the world in seconds. So the layity (us) need to make sure that we continue the Catholic fight against war, poverty... The fight for social justice must be strengthened.

[AFSCME girl]

27. Hi etherealtruth

this is a nice post! Miss you buddy! Hope all is going well. :loveya:

[etherealtruth]

28. It's all over next Monday evening (woohooo)

So, "I'll be back"

[AFSCME girl]

30. Cool!

Congratulations!! You worked so hard, I am soooooo proud of you!! :bounce:

[Princess Turandot]

33. From the way the bios sounded..

it seemed that any of the none-european Cardinals who were being considered were the older ones, not the younger ones who were potentially more interesting. The older Nigerian (?) Cardinal sounded like a more of a hard-liner than Ratzinger is.

[etherealtruth]

34. Is it Arinsi from Nigeria?

I agree Arinsi is a conservative man I still would have preferred his appointment----I do think it would have been better received in the world and accomplished the same thing as the appointment of Pope Benedict XIV. The U.S. and Europe are making up less and less of the Catholic population and a third world Pope may have been more reflective of the Catholic reality.

I will wait and see ... if this Pope vehemently opposes, social injustice... it will be good--- in no way did I expect that the one who was chosen would change the churches stance on women in the priesthood, birth control...