Ugh! My Cafeteria Catholic Dilemma - Teaching my kids Catholicism

[bleedingheart]

My parish did away with CCD.

Parents are supposed to teach their kids about the sacraments of reconciliation and eucharist at home.

Seems fine right?

Not really, most of the parents in our parish hate this. Many of us are cafeteria Catholics and realize that it would be better for someone else to teach our kids about the sacraments and all the important religious things they need to know.

I got my daughter through the reconciliation part, but I am really feeling odd about teaching my daughter at home.

I am a lifelong Catholic, but as an adult, I know that I am not perfect and that there are many things I don't agree with...however I feel really odd doing this at home and my protestant husband gets all wigged out about some of the rituals that are encouraged.

It makes me nuts.

Sorry to blather on about this...but I just felt the need to share my angst.

[hedgehog]

1. How in the world and why did your parish eliminate CCD?

aka Religious ed AKA Faith Formation.

The dioceses around here in upstate New York are cuttingg off and closing parochial schools using the excuse/reason that the parishes should be spending money on their religious ed programs. Where is your parish? Was the problem that no one would volunteer to teach? Do you hasve a Parish Council? Were the parents consulted?

[bleedingheart]

3. I really don't know how it happened....

this is the same church I was baptized, communioned..married..etc

But somewhere along the line...CCD went away and I am thinking about writing to the diocese and asking them why they did this. The woman in charge of this debacle tells us that they feel so many cafeteria Catholics today are the result of the CCD lessons and that if they include parents in the instructions (basically teach them at home and have two lessons at the church...) we will satisfactorily turn our kids into good Catholics.

I live outside Pittsburgh...this is a heavily Catholic area.

Meanwhile all the effort is in the new and improved Catholic school which is trying to get started in an area with an excellent public school...and from what I hear the school isn't drawing them in...I wonder why...

[hedgehog]

5. OK, let's start with this; who are "THEY"?!?!?

This is your parish and you, believe it or not, are the Church. If you know other parents, start talking and find out if your parish wants CCD or not. If the support is there, insist on getting your parish's assistance in teaching your children. It's an obligation we all took on when we accepted your children for baptism!

If your parish won't sponsor a CCD program, start one of your own! Contact Voice of the Faithful or Call to Action for further assistance.

Don't let anyone put you down as a cafeteria Catholic! There is a lot of solid proof that Humanae Vitae declared so-called artificial birth control immoral not because it was immoral but in order to maintain the power of the bishops. It is truly a scandal in the most basic sense af that word that the Pope, Vatican bureaucracy and the bishops as a group continue to place a higher priority on maintaining control than on true service to the people of God. The label "Cafeteria Catholic" is a method of denying the grace of the Holy Spirit that is given to ALL Catholics, not just bishops!

[bleedingheart]

6. everyone wants CCD

however no one wants to take on the lady in charge of our local parish.

She is really mean.

Let me give you an example of this woman.

During the parental "learning session" she spent the majority of the time telling us about how we should eat dinner with our kids and be more involved with our children. The tone of the entire "lecture" was that we were all shitty parents, that we ate at McDonalds every day and that our children didn't know what vegetables were and we needed to shape up. Every once in a while she provided some religious twist to her diatribe.

None of us want to take her on...it seems like way more trouble than it would be worth.

[YOY]

11. I'd take on the Hun in a minute

and tell her that the Baptists are accepting new members if she wants to act like a goosestepping fascist.

I've been dying to use that line again.

[Dorian Gray]

14. I'd say

that everyone needs to write letters to your parish, expressing displeasure in the circumstances that exist there. Then, go find a new parish. That sounds awful! I don't know of any parish that doesn't provide religious education so that the children can receive their sacraments.

[AngryOldDem]

2. And they wonder why people, especially youths, are leaving the Church

From what I understand from reading other Internet boards, though, there are several good homeschool-type religious ed programs out there. If you want, I can do some research and get back with you. But I agree -- the parish and the family should be partners in faith-formation. The fact that your parish got rid of the program baffles me. Just out of curiosity -- why? Lack of volunteers? Cost?

[bleedingheart]

4. I have some good books on the subjects and I have been

reading a Catholic children's bible to my kids. The church provided workbooks and they are good

As to why it was eliminated? No clue.

I know that there are some problems with volunteers but I know as a parent I would help if we could just come up with a program that was better organized. To give you an idea of how disorganized this is...

Most kids did not have their reconciliation routine memorized..as they should (as we all were required years ago)...so these kids went into the confessional with sheets of paper.

Now...I did get my daughter to memorize it and we discussed it...but when I saw the lack of effort on the part of the other parents...I was dismayed.

So depending upon the family...what the kid learns will vary.

Also...I love teaching my kids...but I find that in these matters...my kid isn't listening half as well as she should. Call me silly but having the Sisters teach me CCD scared the poo out of me...but I still have not forgotten what they taught me.

[Beer Snob-50]

7. my kids were never taught the reconcilation routine in CCD

they do get a sheet of paper when they go into the confessional (the kids have their own confession time around Lent). I think the important part of this lesson should be the fact that we need confession and (with many of the kids in my CCD class it seems) the Priest will not yell at you our tell anyone your sins.

[AngryOldDem]

9. Mine were

And then they could schedule a time before First Holy Communion to see the priest.

I have to say, though, that at the parish where my older daughter took her FHC, CCD was an absolute disaster. To call it laissez-faire would be an understatement. At the end of the year neither of my older kids could tell you exactly what they learned, but they knew they always came away with candy at the end of every session! :-( Soon after, we switched parishes and the new church took a really hard-line approach to CCD. It was run like a class, with grades, exams, etc. My older daughter hated it because she would ask questions of her instructor that were not especially appreciated. (They were fair questions, and if you can't ask questions to help cultivate your faith...)

I have to say my kids have not had great CCD experiences. At times I wonder if this is a very subtle form of discrimination against those families who don't send their kids to the parish school. Supposedly the public school kids get the same instruction as parish school, but I really, really doubt it. (I could also mention that the times when they offered CCD were about the worst times out of the whole week -- heavy homework nights, late afternoon...I could go on.)

[hedgehog]

13. I teach CCD to third graders; here's a little background.

In every group, there are two or three kids I see on alternate weeks because of visitation rights. Only about 2/3 of the kids attend Mass on a regular basis. Generally there are one or two kids really interested and with it. Another one or two are bright but determined NOT to be interested and to make it known that they are not interested. The rest range from painfully shy to very chatty. About half the kids can not tread the text book and get embarrassed if called upon to read.

I try to get one or two facts to stick every week. If I can get one kid to realize "hey - this means something!", I'm thrilled. I devote about half the class to story telling and attempted question and answer. I ask the questions trying to get them thinking. The rest I devote to some sort of craft tied to the day's lesson. If I can make the time enjoyable enough that the kids have a good experience, then I think I've done my job. If Church is home to them, they'll be here in the future and will educate themselves when ready. If they have a rough time, I figure they'll leave at the first opportunity and never look back. The most important lesson: I insist they treat each other properly. No teasing, no name calling.

[YOY]

12. our Catholic Elementary School priest yelled

Grouchy old school (musta been 85 in 1983) Irish (born) priest.

One of those guys who should have not been a priest but for the times and culture around him.

[DemBones DemBones]

8. Why not use the good old Baltimore Catechism?

I know that rote learning is out of favor in education departments but I think the arguments against it are silly. Memorization helps train your memory (duh!) and is a useful form of learning, though certainly not the only form of learning. You don't have to ask your daughter memorize the Catechism, of course, you can just use it as a teaching tool. You could read it with her and discuss the answers. She might enjoy memorizing the answers, though. Just play it by ear is my advice.

I would use the Baltimore Catechism myself if I had young children today. Lots of post-Vatican II Catholic literature is vague at best and that's why there are so many confused Catholics today.


The site where I found the Baltimore Catechism is odd in that the URL never changes as you go from page to page so I'll have to explain how to find the right page on the site.

Go here http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/ and then scroll down until you can't see the picture of Mary any longer, at which point you will be able to see the Site Overview -- look for "FAITH" in blue letters in the left hand column and you'll see that you have a choice between the complete Baltimore Catechism #3 or the shorter Baltimore Catechism #2. It doesn't matter which one you click, you'll get #3!

This site has its quirks but I haven't found a better one for the Baltimore Catechism; others have longer answers and have added Bible verses, etc., which I think would be a distraction with a young child, better for teenagers preparing for Confirmation.

When you click on the link for Baltimore Catechism #2 or #3, you get a page that has a number of important PRAYERS at the top and the LESSONS OF THE CATECHISM below. Keep your cursor below the words LESSONS OF THE CATECHISM unless you want to go to PRAYERS. (i.e., it's badly set up and takes you to PRAYERS all too easily!!!) Once you know the quirks of the site, it's not hard to navigate. It's a conservative Catholic site but a good source for traditional prayers, the Catechism, etc.

[AngryOldDem]

10. I agree -- reflection and discussion should go along with the rote

I know some Catholics who know their Baltimore Catechism inside and out, but can't logically apply it. I think, too, for many people this reduces the faith to a "rulebook." I think that attiude shortchanges Church teaching as well as the person learning it.

[hedgehog]

15. Oddly enough, I remember my Baltimore catechism from first grade and

I'll tell you why you shouldn't use it to teach children. It asks and answers questions that kid aren't asking and don't understand anyways. It also uses words that mean nothing to most grammar school kids. It turns faith into a series of meaningless mumbles that go in one ear and out the mouth without ever engaging the brain or the heart. It's probably the best method possible for turning out people who will show up at Mass each Sunday and never apply the Gospel to their lives.

We still use the old names for what we do:CCD or Religious Ed because most people have no idea what Faith Formation is. I can see now what people were trying to get at with that last name. We aren't teaching religion; we're trying to form people's hearts so they turn to God.

Ask me why I am a Catholic today, and it's not because of the Baltimore Catechism. Its because of the essential joy and love and trust in God that I've seen among Church members even in bad times. Somehow that overcomes the terrible behavior I've seen some Catholics display. I'm with Peter, where else would I go, Lord?

[Matilda]

16. An interesting discussion.

I've kept out because I don't know how things are generally done in the US, but I do find it strange
that the preparation for such an important sacrament should be left up to parents, no matter how
short-staffed the church may be. There's always the possibility of errors creeping in, no matter how
sincere we parents might be.

The Reconciliation program at my Church was very creative I thought - no learning of the catechism
at all, but stories of a modern application of Christ's teachings, focusing on loving and helping
one another; questions and answers, drawing and colouring pictures. They were taught the formula
and Short Act of Contrition for the sacrament, but apart from that, nothing formal. Parents went
along to all the training sessions, and I thought it was quite inspiring, but I have to confess that
my son in later years told me he thought it was boring and it put him off the Church. I think that's
an excuse for being too lazy to get involved, but I keep quiet on that point, and just hope that with
maturity he'll take a different view.

[Beer Snob-50]

17. gotta share my reconcilation experience the other night

went to a penace service with the ccd class i teach (11th grade). the priest in charge spent a lot of time teaching everyone that no one is there to judge your sins, all sins are forgiveable (including abortion), and that God will forgive you time and time again.

when i went in for my confession (i think of a line from a jimmy buffet song on the subject "so father, have you got about a week? good lets begin") he started off by telling me that my sins are already forgiven because i wear my boston celtics jacket and i have lived in hell for the past decade becasue i root for a lousey team. then after i confessed he gave me absolution and told me, "see that was easy, you are forgiven"

i wish all my kids had that priest! (therre were 17 priests across the age spectrum)

[hedgehog]

18. The hardest thing in the world for most Catholics to accept is

the forgiveness of sins! Considering this week's Gospel (The prodigal son), this is a good topic to meditate on!

[Beer Snob-50]

19. it is hard to understand God forgiving us of our sins

and even harder to follow the fact that we must forgive also.

the Our Father has that one line..."forgive us our trespasses AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESPASS AGAINST US" I have trouble sometimes with that part.

[hedgehog]

20. heck out Andrew Greeley's page with his homily for this Sunday.

He notes that the "good" brother was also forgiven for being so bitter about his brother!

[DemBones DemBones]

21. Our priest has preached on that many times,

saying how difficult it is to forgive those who trespass against us and how we must pray for our enemies. He emphasizes that's not easy, praying for enemies.

More than once he's said, "I know it's especially difficult for me. I'm Italian, you know. . ."


I love Italian priests! But then, I love Italian people in general and feel completely at home in Italy, and I'm English and Irish. :shrug: