How would you respond to this email?

[rug]

Bob,
I would like to make a couple requests. But first, know that I am sure that preparing your family and bringing them to Mass every week is not an easy task especially doing it by yourself. I do appreciate the faithfulness. And I can only presume it comes from a desire to pass on the Catholic faith to your children.
The effort would be better if they came on time, even most of the time, were encouraged to participate and stayed with the congregation until the end. There is little to gain in simply being present but not engaged. That involves a choice and is learned by example.
When you all come in late, it not only prevents your family from hearing the word of God but interferes with those who are already there on time. If it was a theatrical performance it would not be permitted to come in late and then proceed to find your seats out of deference to the other people and those performing. The people at Mass deserve at least the same respect.
While the youngest may need to use the restrooms, please keep in mind there are some parts of the Mass when no one should be walking around, most especially during the Eucharistic Prayer and at the Consecration, the most sacred part of the Mass.
And last week, I was honoring our seniors and you all got up and walked out. I doubt that those 5 minutes or 10 minutes mattered so much that it was worth letting your children think it's polite to walk out of anything while someone is speaking. I also doubt that if it was your son or daughter being so honored that you would have appreciated it.
Finally, I think it's great that people read the church bulletin but not while I'm talking. That is why they are not distributed until after Mass. I go to some amount of trouble to prepare and deliver the homily. I think I deserve better.
Thanks for taking these in the spirit in which I offer them.
Father M

[CBHagman]

1. Wow.

It's hard to hear things like that. However, I can tell you that one of my friends reports that in the parish where he grew up, the priest delivered an annual talk on how to behave during mass. That, however, was given to the entire congregation.

Getting back to your original question, I'm not certain how I would respond to the e-mail/letter, aside from taking a few days to think it over, absorb it.

How do you feel?

[rug]

2. Thanks for responding.

I was insulted and pissed off when I read it. Any statement preceded by "don't take this the wrong way" guarantees it will be taken that way.

The reason I posted this was to gauge my reaction.

I did wait a few days to respond. One of the things I told him was that his focus on someone reading a church bulletin while delivering the Word in anticpation of the Eucharist is also an example that bears a lesson. I told him he'd be happy to observe my children are far more polite in his building when they're there without me. And I told him to call me if he had anything of a more pastoral nature to discuss.

He has not answered and I don't expect he will.

What disturbed me about this is that it reminded me of so many Catholic stereotypes I've heard over the years, of people who said they left the church because of bad experiences with priests (much, much milder and much more common than the sex scandals), that the church is cold, that all the church cares about is money, etc.

That this particular priest is a popinjay who just recently spearheaded a four million dollar fund raising drive to build a new church has done nothing to dispel that feeling.

My feelings toward the church itself have not changed regardless of this priest's view of my church etiquette. Even if he is absolutely correct in his observations it struck me as odd that this would be the basis for the only personal communication between a pastor and a parishioner.

Thanks again for your feedback.

[hedgehog]

3. Talk about serendipity! It's amazing how well this email ties into this week's

Gospel!

To paraphrase from memory:

and the Pharisee saw the woman weeping and washing the Lord's feet with her tears, and thought to himself that if he were really a prophet, he'd know the sort of woman she was....

[rug]

5. Thanks for that. Here's yesterday's:

Luke 15,3-7.

So to them he addressed this parable.
What man among you having a hundred sheep and losing one of them would not leave the ninety-nine in the desert and go after the lost one until he finds it?
And when he does find it, he sets it on his shoulders with great joy
and, upon his arrival home, he calls together his friends and neighbors and says to them, 'Rejoice with me because I have found my lost sheep.'
I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance.

[hedgehog]

4. I told my husband about this

First he started musing out loud about here's a guy who goes to all the trouble to get the kids ready and get them to church, and they're little kids so of course he comes late and leaves early and they're up and down to the bathroom, and finally he burst out with

"That's another problem with this danged celibacy shit! If he'd ever had kids, he'd understand!"

[DemBones DemBones]

6. Can you go to a later Mass, allowing everyone more time to get ready?

Ideally, I'd get there 10-15 minutes early and take them to the bathroom, tell them "Go now because you can't get up during Mass." (You should of course discuss this in advance so they don't get all cranky at church. Tell them there are new rules, but try not to let them know you're annoyed with this priest. If he's building a new church, he'll be there until the debt's paid off, long after their Confirmations, probably.)

You could try a different parish, of course, but all priests hate seeing people coming in late and leaving early, or getting up during Mass to go to the bathroom. Or reading the bulletin during Mass.

He has indicated that he understands that it's difficult getting the children ready and bringing them to church by yourself so he's tried to put himself in your place. Can you put yourself in his place and see that he's doing his best to conduct a proper liturgy and deliver a good sermon and the late-comers, early-leavers, and run-to-the-bathroom-ers are a distraction to other parishioners?

I've been a late-comer too many times myself. :blush: I either need to get up earlier or go to a later Mass. We like the 8:00 Mass but shouldn't be late.

Finally, he indicated that your children weren't engaged in Mass. Are they perhaps too young to be engaged? Is their attention span long enough to attend Mass? You didn't mention how many kids you have or their ages.

[rug]

7. It's not difficult to accommodate his wishes but that's not what struck me.

Putting myself in his place, I would not have sent an email listing my complaints, ending with "I deserve better."

His email is short on pastoral outreach and long on chastising behavior.

To answer your question, I have five children, the youngest is five. Their level of engagement in religion is high; they do not go simply because I take them. I'm surprised he didn't complain about their talking in church because usually one or the other is making some comment during Mass about what they've heard or seen there.

The new church was consecrated in October. The first item in the bulletin is always the amount owed to the diocese by the parish even though the legal owner of the building is the diocese itself. Prior to this email his only written communication has been about fundraising.

Frankly I think a better approach here would have been a phone call or a visit.

Thanks for your advice. I appreciate your GD posts as well.

[DemBones DemBones]

8. Now that I know you have five children, I think he was wrong

to e-mail you. Five kids is a lot for one adult to get ready for church and manage in church. If you had only two, I could see his point more. Of course it's because you have five that he notices you. Six people just can't slip into church unnoticed.

I agree with you that it was wrong for him to say "I deserve better." I thought he should have left out that whole bit about you reading the bulletin during his sermon. If he doesn't want people reading the bulletin during Mass, the solution is easy: have the ushers hide the bulletins until after Mass.

Talking about you leaving while he was honoring Seniors was also unnecessary. It was a litany of complaints when he should have confined himself to the three issues: be on time, stay until Mass is ended, and don't wander around during the most sacred part of the Mass. And, to be fair, he should have made general announcements to remind everyone in the parish of this and put it in the bulletin, too, before he e-mailed anybody.

If I were you, I'd go to Confession and confess my anger at him about the e-mail. Then he'd have to discuss it with you and be confronted with his poor judgement. You could tell him that perhaps he's unaware but this sort of thing makes a lot of Catholics leave the Church. You could even tell him "I put a lot of effort into getting myself and my five children to Mass on Sunday. I deserve better." :evilgrin:

I'm glad you appreciate my posts in GD; you may be the only one who does! :hippie:

[shenmue]

9. He sounded out of line

:(

People aren't supposed to get in late, but sometimes things happen; people make mistakes and I would never go so far as to write to somebody to nitpick about one or two incidents. His e-mail didn't achieve anything positive, and he should have known that. Shame you had to go through it.

[rug]

12. Thanks.

I think I'll just move on and not nitpick in return.

[shrike]

10. It seems odd to me he'd single you out

Have you had issues with this priest before? Surely there must be plenty of families in the parish he'd consider "disruptive." (And, I must say, there seem to be more and more people who don't know how to behave ANYWHERE; wherever they go, they act like they're at a sporting event. But that's another thread -- and the comment was not directed at you, btw.)

I must confess, my first reaction would be to go find another church. But if you like your parish and want to stay, maybe you could take some of Dem Bones' suggestions.

You know, if a little kid needs to go to the bathroom, you take them to the bathroom. God will understand. He should, too. The guy sounds insufferable. You have my sympathies. Unfortunately, men of God are usually men first.

[rug]

11. The only real interaction I had with him before was on the parish blog.

He wrote an article called "Is Kerry Really Catholic?" just before the election. I wrote a response on the blog titled "Was Franco Really Catholic?"

[DemBones DemBones]

13. Hehe, I think that's what got him!

"Was Franco Really Catholic?" :rofl:

[shrike]

14. Yeah, I think you're right

Some people don't like being tweaked.

[nini]

15. Half of me thinks he's an asshole - the other half can see his point

I guess I'd really need to know him to decide what he is. There was a priest at my old parish that was a freaking control freak pre-vatican 2 asshole. This guy sounds like him. At my father's funeral he took the opportunity to give a sermon about non Catholics practically going to hell etc.. I wanted to kill him. My dad was a LAPD officer and there was pretty good size crowd - most of whom were not Catholic. It was ridiculous.

On the other hand, if there is a pattern of coming in late and leaving early then I would say he has a point - even if his delivery sucked.


Look around for another parish if this guy bothers you - if you don't you won't get anything out of mass anyway because you'll be concentrating on what an asshole he is.

[rug]

16. That sums it up pretty well.

His attitude is as distracting as my lateness. I'm tempted to sit in the front row reading a hard bound copy of the catechism. I think I'm a scintilla less an asshole than he is so I probably won't.

[DemBones DemBones]

18. If you decided to leave the parish,

you could do that on your last Sunday there. :evilgrin: I would be sorely tempted to do that.

And I never welcomed you to the group before, so welcome! :hi: Better late than never I say! I really do hate how obsessive Americans are about being on time. I can't remember if I told you this before, but the priest who used to do the Spanish Masses in our parish had a policy of waiting at the door and greeting people, not starting Mass until 15 or 20 minutes after the hour, when he thought everybody was there. He also seemed unperturbed about all the small children wandering around the church.

[nini]

19. find another parish.. I looked around a long time until I found the one

I go to now - which isn't very often I'll admit. The priest at this church is the best - down to earth, funny, liberal but not over the top on politics etc.. Good priests are out there that understand their job is to teach and bring folks together, not dictate.

You should bring a newspaper to read in the front row instead :evilgrin:

[DemBones DemBones]

17. Well said, nini.

And welcome to the Catholic group! :hi: