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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 10:47 AM
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Dutch call for lay-led Mass
LONDON -- Dutch Dominicans have issued a radical recommendation that lay ministers chosen by their congregations should be allowed to celebrate the Eucharist if no ordained priests are available, according to a report in The Tablet of Sept. 7.

The British Catholic weekly reported that Dominicans mailed a 38-page booklet, Kerk en Ambt (“Church and Ministry”) to all 1,300 parishes in the country. The booklet advocates dropping a priest-centered model of the Mass in favor of one built around a community sharing bread and wine in prayer.







http://ncronline.org/NCR_Online/archives2/2007c/092107/092107c.php
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shenmue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 02:23 PM
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1. I thought that was already in the canon law...
that in emergency celebrations, laypeople can be permitted to celebrate the sacraments. In any event, if no one else is available to help them, I do feel somewhat sorry for them... don't know what else they can do.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 04:11 PM
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2. It's news to me if that's Canon law.
My understanding is that there is a policy somewhere that parishes should be given respect as faith communities and that lay leadership should be arranged in the absence of enough priests. That model has been discarded by American bishops in favor of combining parishes to ensure that parishes are led by priests. It works for the moment but here is what I see happening:

Stage 1: Disrupt parish communities by forcing viable parishes to combine and shutting down churches

Step 2: As part of this, suppress any attempt at strong parish councils or lay ministry. After all, Father knows best.

Step 3. In 10 years when there are less than half the priests we have today, throw up your hands in despair because the people are not ready to step up and take responsibility to keep their parishes running.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 07:23 PM
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3. You can't have a Eucharist without a priest.
You can have a prayer service.

You can distribute previously consecrated hosts.

But you can't have a Mass without a priest.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Amen. Here's what an American Dominican theology professor says

about this effort by Dutch Dominicans (bolding is in original text:

1). A validly ordained priest in full communion with the Roman Catholic Church is necessary for the valid celebration of the Eucharist. IOW, there can be no lay presiders at the Mass because such an event would not in fact be a Mass at all. A "lay lead Mass" can never be a Mass by definition.

2). Anyone teaching that the Mass can be validly confected by a lay person is teaching against the Church's ancient understanding of the Eucharist and Orders. Paragraph eighty of the Dominican constitutions (LCO 80) calls on all friars to put our intellectual and academic prowess at the service of the Church's magisterial office. We are not called to set ourselves up as an "alternative magisterium."

3). As an Order, the Order of Preachers fully supports the ancient teaching of the Church and should publicly repudiate the conclusions of our Dutch brothers. This would not be a condemnation of the brothers themselves, of course, only a rejection of their theological conclusions. Prediction: the Dutch friars in this case will not be disciplined in any way.

<snip>

If we are concerned about the shrinking availability of the Eucharist in a time of an apparent priest shortage, how exactly does allowing lay presiders at the Mass make the Eucharist more available? Without a priest there is no Eucharist. So, what are we supposed to be making available to the people by allowing lay presiders? A lovely Protestant communion service? Fine with me. Just don't call it "Roman Catholic."

Fr. Philip N. Powell, O.P.

more. . . http://hancaquam.blogspot.com/2007_09_02_archive.html
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. That's an interesting blog.
I grew up in a Dominican parish in NYC and I'm skeptical the Dutch Dominicans were suggesting anyone but a priest could perform the priestly role of consecration. I suspect the pamphlet addressed the limits of a priest's role at Mass and suggested the laity could play a more prominent role - but not a supplanting role - during Mass. Either that or they were proposing alternative services, with or without communion, when there is an acute shortage or absence of priests. I understand the Catholics of Nagasaki maintained their religion for many years in a simlar fashion after the Roman Catholic missionary priests were expelled. If I can find the text of the Dutch pamphlet I'll post a link. Thanks again for the info.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yes, it is. He posts his sermons and I've thought the ones

I've read were very good.

He is a college chaplain as well as a professor and has some interesting observations about young people and faith.
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