Vatican Protocol: am I the only one bothered that women meeting

[hedgehog]

the Pope are required to wear black, have their arms covered and assume a veil?

I don't know what bothers me the most, the notion that the Papacy still clings to the concept of itself as a government in exile or the misogyny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Nobility

[JNelson6563]

1. It's biblical.

It ain't so much a Catholic thing (the Pope aside), it's a bible thing.

Julie

[Matilda]

2. The veil, or even a hat, is now optional.

I came on this article quite by chance:

http://clericalwhispers.blogspot.com/2009/07/vatican-dress-code-dos-and-donts-for.html


It's a bigger faux pas for a woman to wear white to a Papal audience than for her to leave her head uncovered.

The article also deals with the rules for visiting St Peters, and I was reminded of the time I was visiting Rome
many years ago. It was the era of the original mini-skirt, but I'd been careful to put aside a summer shift with
a hemline just below my knees for the visit to the Basilica, as I knew the rules. I covered my bare shoulders
with a cardigan, but I was refused admittance to the Basilica because I had slits in the sides of the skirt,
about 1 1/2 inches long - not exactly wanton. Without them, it would have been difficult to walk properly, but the
Swiss Guards deemed them indecent and refused to allow me in. Somebody offered to lend me a light coat, but I
refused to wear it because I didn't agree that my dress was indecent. So I missed out on the Basilica.

Edit: typo

[hedgehog]

3. I saw that faux pas about not wearing white. What's up with that, do you suppose?

Are they afraid of losing track of the Pope if someone else wears white? Are the rest of us less holy or something?I love the Body of Christ, but I've about had it with these old men running everything.

[ChickMagic]

4. Only the Catholic Queen can wear white

Queen Sofia of Spain wore white on her visits to the vatican. It does set her apart from
mere peons but it is a title the pope can bestow.

[hedgehog]

5. Worse and worse! Really, what does Jesus think of the idea of nobility?

First they wrapped the hierarchy and nobility in God to justify their power, now they're trying to wrap God in the hierarchy!

[ChickMagic]

8. I think it's merely ceremonial

The Catholic Queen must lead an exemplary Catholic life
and it must show in her words and deeds. She doesn't have
any power in the church other than being able to wear white.

[JNelson6563]

9. Again, look to the bible

Many examples of various ranks there. And not all on equal footing. Surely you've noticed that, throughout the bible, women aresecond class citizens at best.

So is this some are more special than others thing just begin to occur to you? I ask because, and I may be mistaken, you generally seem to be taking issue with the Church in this forum. I know if I were still a practicing Catholic looking for a haven from anti-Catholic nastiness your posts would disabuse me of the notion that this is the place for such a respite.

Julie

[hedgehog]

10. One can love the Church and disagree with the hierarchy:

Catherine of Siena

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03447a.htm

Teresa of Avila

http://www.ocd.pcn.net/teresa.htm

Francis of Assisi

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06221a.htm

[JNelson6563]

11. Indeed.

Somehow your objections seem to have a different flavor.

Just sayin'.

Julie

[hedgehog]

12. We had a decent man retire as pastor, then a very dedicated younger

priest come in. He left because he felt the hierarchy will not allow reform any time in the near future. Since he's left, my parish was suppressed and we were assigned to a parish headed by a man who has a personal cult. He has managed to anger and alienate everyone from a convert who prefers the Latin Mass to the trustees to me. He has also spent a small fortune redecorating his office and the church building without consulting with anyone. The chancery backs him up every step of the way.

I have one daughter who feels unwelcome in most Catholic churches because she is gay. I have another daughter paying her own way through seminary who'd like to be ordained.

Information is coming out that bishops all over the world actively covered up crimes against children. They had no problem calling in the police if a priest stole from the collection basket. If a man is in love and wishes to marry, he is forced out of the priesthood. If he turns his back on his girl friend, all is forgiven.

So yeah, I'm pretty much disgusted with just about anyone in Holy Orders right now. There are some good , decent men out there busting their butts to serve the Church. By and large, I see a bunch of men determined to maintain and build upon whatever power they have.

[JNelson6563]

13. Ok, you have grievances

and rightfully so.

I've gone further into this than I should have, seeing as I am not a believer or practicing Catholic perhaps it's not my place, just not sure why you post here, in what I am guessing was meant as a pro-Catholic forum, a refuge even.

I hope you achieve healing in your journey.

Julie

[hedgehog]

14. If it wasn't a vital part of my life, if I wasn't a believer, I could walk away.

Right now i am seeing faith communities being shut down like so many poorly performing McDonald's franchises. It's not supposed to be this way.

[CBHagman]

6. Banned at the basilica!

Rome wasn't ready for you, or at least the Swiss Guards weren't.

I'm sorry you were barred, but it does make a great story. In the States these days people go to the White House in flip-flops, to cathedrals in shorts, and to work with both underwear and tattoos visible. There is some happy medium between a festival of slovenliness and keeping women beneath burqas...

[Matilda]

7. They banned a princess on the same day.

We read in an English newspaper the next day that Princess Paola of Belgium had been barred because she was wearing
a mini-skirt, about half-way up her thighs. So at least I was in exalted company - she's currently the Queen of
Belgium!