The Catholic Church used to support Social Justice in the 1960's.

[Pooka Fey]

Hi all, I usually post in 2004 Election Results/Discussion about the Election Fraud, but I need some input from people who are active in their parishes. I used to be a devout Catholic but not anymore. I still pray and say the rosary.

Here's my question: When I was a kid in the late 1960's, I remember my parents and everyone in the neighborhood sponsoring Cuban refugees, and supporting the Civil Rights Movement with actions and prayers. Being a Catholic was about supporting what was right - Social Justice, Fighting Poverty, Equal Rights. There was true social power, the power to change our society for the better in the message of the Gospels.

Is that possible anymore? Would it make any difference to talk to a priest about the disenfranchisement of hundreds of thousands of African American, Low-Income, and Liberal Arts college voters in Ohio, and other states? Would any priest dare to give a sermon about the justice of equal access to the polls? Or would they be too worried about offending Republican members of the congregation?

[DemBones DemBones]

1. Hi, Pooka Fey, and welcome! I'm surprised that

you say you're no longer a devout Catholic when you also say you still pray and say the rosary! ;-) I take it that you mean you no longer attend Mass regularly, but it certainly seems as if you're still connected to God and the Church through prayer. We should probably have a thread here about how (ir)regularly Catholic DUers attend Mass -- not to mention a thread about social justice and what our parishes do in this regard.

Since I was not raised Catholic, I can't comment on my experiences as a Catholic in the Sixties. However, having had Catholic friends then (I finished high school in 1965), it seems to me that your parish was more activist than most. I never heard of this sort of thing from my Catholic friends or saw any evidence of it when I went to church with them. I don't think your experience was unusual, but have no idea how common it was -- hope others chime in here and tell us. I wonder if there was a lot more social justice interest and activism then, on the heels of Vatican II? It would be logical, but I don't know if it's true!

Anyway, in my parish, there are people involved in the local soup kitchen sponsored by several city churches, the Meals on Wheels program, the Crisis Pregnancy Center, a local home for abused women, a parish ministry to help the bereaved and the sick, several prayer groups, etc. We often have collections of food for the poor, pray during Mass for people suffering from various diseases like AIDS, for the people in DarFur, etc. We have a large Hispanic population in our parish, who mostly attend a Spanish-language Mass on Sundays, and there are opportunities to work with them, too, particularly if you speak Spanish.

Having said all that, I think many in our parish vote Republican and it's not about abortion -- or at least I know you can't get many people in the parish to march against abortion (I'm one of the few who has) or even sign a petition or a preprinted postcard to Congress. My Catholic friends who voted for Bush supported his tax cuts for the un-needy and the Iraq war-- and yet they give to the poor and do volunteer work! One friend who voted for Bush in 2000 is really torn about the war and did not want to vote for Bush again -- but she also didn't want to vote for Kerry because he's pro-choice. I must say that she is one of the best Christians I've ever known, doing for others all the time and avoiding any praise or even credit. I didn't ask her how she finally voted.

You know, as I'm writing this, I'm thinking that a lot of people in the parish probably do vote Republican because of values issues like abortion and same sex marriage though they don't protest against either. They may just feel more comfortable with the GOP, like they are more their kind of people. Conversely, they may see Democrats as atheists and people who put little importance on family. I have felt for a long time that the Democrats's hard-line position on abortion is hurting the party badly but had never thought about it in terms of my parish, knowing that the majority won't get involved in protests. This parish, by the way, though located in Georgia, is very catholic, made up of people from all over the country, many of whom came here to work in industries that relocated here from the North, or in the hospitals.

Our priest is a good priest but I don't see him as likely to lead a crusade, though he did get us involved with a sister parish in a little Mexican village and we help them, have exchange trips, etc. I don't think he'd ever protest at the School of the Americas, though. He HAS supported people in starting programs they wanted to bring to the parish, though, such as Adoration on First Fridays, a Caring Ministry, a monthly newsletter, numerous prayer groups, etc. -- I think he likes to assist rather than initiate everything. Maybe I should see about organizing a chapter of Pax Christi here, maybe there are more Catholics opposed to the war in this parish than I realize.

This is a long ramble but before I end it, I must tell you that there are priests in the archdiocese who have built great Hispanic communities within parishes and have, with help from sisters, helped these immigrants get medical care and housing, provided preschools for their children, etc. For all I know, such things are now happening in my own parish; in recent years, my disability has kept me home from Mass more Sundays than not so I'm no longer in the loop the way I was when I was serving as Eucharistic minister at one or more Sunday Masses every month and participating actively in several groups.

I'm encouraged, too, to have a new archbishop, installed on January 17, after eleven years of a conservative in that office. I believe the new man will be more liberal, though I don't know a great deal about him except that he is past chairman or president of the US Catholic Bishops and is African-American.

P.S. With a name like Pooka fey, perhaps you should visit the new Irish Affairs Group.

:hi:

[Pooka Fey]

2. Thanks for your thoughtful response, DemBones

I knew that the Church is still really active in poverty relief social justice issues. I'm really glad to hear that there seems to be an anti-Iraq war movement in the Church - the Pax Christi that you mention. I would gladly trade Church involvement in the Election Fraud movement for Church involvement against sending the children of the poor to fight and die for oil billionaires!

I'll check out the Irish Affairs Group - I'm of Scottish descent - but a Celt is a Celt, right? :-)

[DemBones DemBones]

3. I hope others will hop in here, too, and tell what's going on

in their parishes/ give their take on your question.

Something else I thought of: It seems to me that the media no longer pay heed to Catholic clergy and religious who take a stand on social issues unless they oppose abortion or same-sex marriage and/or support Bush's warmongering. It was not that well-publicized that Pope John Paul II -- head of the Church worldwide-- opposed this war and told Bush** if he went into Iraq he'd go w/o God.

It was much more publicized that a few U.S. bishops -- by no means a large percentage of the American bishops -- talked about denying Holy Communion to John Kerry and/or those who voted for him! You really have to seek out the news of Catholics and others who dissent against the status quo these days.

***

I rejoice in the Celtic blood in my veins, whether it be pure Irish or Scots-Irish! :hi:

[AngryOldDem]

6. I'll chime in...

I attend a rather well-off parish in a rather well-off suburb, so social justice is an issue that is probably far from the thoughts of some who only attend Mass on the weekend. The current pastor is a guy who does not like to make waves, but he sometimes weaves very powerful, yet subtle, points in his homilies, which (unfortuately) probably go over the heads of most in the audience. But overall, he is not as socially conscious as I'd like him to be. But in his defense, it's probably because of the demographics, plus the fact that this parish has undergone a lot of emotional and financial churn over the past five years. He stepped into the middle of a pretty big mess. (The former pastor is part of the sex scandal crap.) So it's understandable that he is more concerned with other issues right now.

That said, however, there is a core of parishioners who are very committed to social action in all forms. They take part in the St. Vincent de Paul Society (which helps the poor within our parish boundary area, and most also volunteer at the city's SVDP homeless shelter and food pantry -- in fact, the shelter was started by two of our parishioners); Social Outreach (which provides financial assistance to groups local and worldwide that apply for assistance); JustFaith, a social justice program that introduces laypeople to social issues and how they are addressed by Catholic Social Teaching; plus many others who work on their own with missions and other groups, such as newly arrived refugees.

I'm involved with most of the above, and the people I work with are incredible -- true disciples of Christ's call to spread His word throughout the world. Our mutual regard and support for one another has gotten us through some frustrating times.

Have we made a difference? I'd like to think so; if through our efforts we have made one person in the pew become aware of the plight of the needy we have succeeded. If one person who goes through JustFaith gains a new appreciation for the richness and fullness of CST, we have succeeded. If we pay the rent to keep someone from being evicted, we have succeeded.

We do most of this work without the "leadership" of a pastor, and I think if you have dedicated laypeople leading the way, it is just as effective (if not more so) than a fire-and-brimstone homily on justice every weekend.

I'm a firm believer in "faith without works is dead." There are a lot of us putting our faith to work, and it has been one of the most gratifying experiences of our lives to have become involved in social justice at the parish level. I know it has opened up so many doors to me, and enriched me in so many ways.

So...at least where I'm at, social justice certainly is NOT extinct at the parish level.

[Midlodemocrat]

4. Hi, Pooka Fey

I think social justice is possible. I spend a great deal of my time on social justice both within my parish and on other fronts. I was raised to believe that that is one of the reasons you are put on this earth, to help the less fortunate.

That being said, my priest is liberal, but this is a repug area, so I don't think there is a chance in hell that he will speak about disenfrancisement at the polls.

[Pooka Fey]

5. Thanks Midlodemocrat!

That's what I figured - but I thought it worth a shot in the dark. :hi:

[DemBones DemBones]

7. Isn't the media effectively covering up the disenfranchisement?

How many people who aren't news junkies reading a lot online know about the "voting irregularities?" Ask the average person and I'll bet they know next to nothing about it -- but can tell you all about Laci and Scott and Amber!

I'd like to see the Church come out against Bush**'s plans to ruin Social Security. I do believe John Paul II would really be fighting Bush** if he were still in good health. Not long ago I read a book about some events in the Philippines about twenty years ago. It was non-fiction, written by a reporter who had gone there originally on assignment and then stayed for some time and did an investigation of a couple of murders and how the whole society worked on one of the southern islands, where the main crop is sugar cane, where the army and police are at least partly corrupt, and there are bandits or guerillas as well. The author was rather anti-Catholic but despite that he ended up being impressed by the work of some good priests who supported liberation theology.

Well, when JP II visited the RP, it was decided that he would visit this island. The local aristocrats/ plantation owners were pleased, sure that the antiCommunist pope would help straighten out these priests who were pro-unionization of the workers in the dugar cane fields. They made big preparations for his visit. When John Paul arrived and celebrated Mass, his homily was a scathing indictment of the way the plantation owners treated the workers and a strong reminder of what Jesus taught. :7

[Midlodemocrat]

8. I would like to see the Church come out against Bush on

every policy he has. Abortion not withstanding, what about the proclivity to sentence people to death? What about the war?

You know, growing up, my parents instilled a tremendous spirit of social justice in all of us, so much so, that when my mom passed away, the Church we had attended for decades erected a bench and named an award for her. She had it down pat, she always helped the underdog. I have such tremendous admiration for what she did and such enormous shoes to fill.

My parents, as devout Catholics, were the most liberal people I knew. My mom was a tad squirmy about abortion, but understood the need for it. Staunch death penalty opponents and firm believers in actually doing the corporal works of mercy.

This Church, now, is so obsessed with the whole gay marriage and abortion thing, they can't see the forest for the trees. I had a good friend ask me in October "How can you vote for Kerry, what about abortion? How can you vote for him as a Catholic?" I asked her, "what about the death penalty and the slaughter of the innocents in Iraq? How can you vote for Bush?"

Silence. I feel I am fortunate because my parish priest is very liberal, but I do know that that is few and far between.

I still am a real proponent of the saying "against abortion? don't have one".