professional ethics and conduct

[mopinko]

please tell me if i am out of line here. imho, my hubby is feeling terrible. he is depressed. he had a very bad father's day, despite some serious efforts on my part to make it work. he ended up in a real state. i have been trying to contact his therapist. i actually started last week, as my therapist is not working out for me, and i was hoping that his could point me toward someone else. i just left a message saying who i was and i would like to talk to her.
sunday night i called her emergency number at about 10 o'clock, telling her that he was very upset, and if she could not call back tonight to please check in with him in the a.m. she didn't call me, and she didn't call him. i ended up leaving about 5 messages in all, including telling her that he was seeing a doctor to be evaluated for depression. (fun that, he said the only thing wrong with him is his crazy wife, and she believed him. this is MY long time doctor.) i gave her the phone number for my therapist, and the doctor. the doctor was going to call her, i think. (not sure if he gave her permission.)
no return calls. there was nothing in her phone message to say that she was out of town, or unavailable. isn't this just wrong?

[mopinko]

1. update

she did finally call him, and told him that she could not talk to me. or listen to me for that matter. not only that, he has cancelled his session tonight, and says that it was her idea.
he is talking about moving out. he took today off work because he has a cold (which has screwed up his sleep again. things were really warm and peaceful last week when he was sleeping well.) he left the house, don't knwo where he is.
so, how does a distraught loving relative of a mentally ill person get through to these professionals? don't they teach you about projection and denial in psych 101?

[preciousdove]

2. Reminds me of one of my sisters

She feels comfortable being herself around me when she is manic or depressed but knows better than to let outsiders know how she is actually doing (including Mom and Dad). So I know she is about to do something really bad, overdose, buy a casino, attack someone, marry someone she met today but anybody with any kind of authority thinks I am the one who is overreacting. Then she does it and they say. Huh, you were right. ARGGGGGG!

Luckily for me she is crazy around her adult children now and they do triage and they threaten to not love her (they wouldn't actually do it they just know that is the only way to get her attention and she will forget they said it when she is back to normal).

She calls us her memory backups.

Crazy people make everyone around them act crazy.

Got anyone to do triage with you? It helps to have company when talking to doctors.

[mopinko]

4. trouble is

i admit that i have had my crazy moments. i have fibromyalgia, which causes a low level depression that has snowballed a little at times. i am feeling very well now. my physical symptoms are all but gone, and i feel very clear and calm, at least as calm as you can you be in the face of this stuff. that i feel well is part of the situation, tho, as i have always accepted that i was the crazy one, and that i was making them crazy. now i am reacting to these things as calmly as any person could, and i can clearly see that he is in a spin.
but, i am afraid i do not have much credibility. i have been trying to convince our 18 year old daughter, who is bipolar, to help him see that he needs help. they are very close. but she and i have a rocky relationship (duh, she is mentally ill.) and she is accepting that it is me. i have been talking to her, tho, and telling her some of the things that have happened. i think she is starting to see it objectively, but i don't know how much help she can be.
i am disappointed that my doctor swallowed his view, as she knows me. but then, she has seen me through my trials and tribulations of the last year or so, and once again, can believe it is me.
i have been trying to get the therapist that i have been seeing involved, and am waiting for her to call me back. i have also gotten some advice from my daughter's shrink, and at least she sees what i am up against. she has given me some guidance on how to approach his therapist, and what she really can and cannot do. ie- she is right to protect their relationship, but she does have a responsibility to listen when i tell her that i am afraid for his safety and mine. i have asked her to just please open a line of communication with me, even if it is through my therapist, or through the doctor. even just to make a plan of what to do if he really flips out.
i did find her e-mail addy on the net, and forwarded an e-mail exchange that i had with him recently, so she can get a flavor of what happens. i asked her to talk to him about work as he is having a terrible time there, as well. maybe if she sees that it is happening in both situations, she can get some perspective. i also begged her to do whatever she could to help him.
i guess there is not much else that i can do. he is talking about moving out. in between telling me how much he loves me, and can't live without me, of course. argh.

[DemExpat]

3. I see a potential problem of problem ownership here, mopinko.....

as I have come to believe that unless someone is suicidal or homicidal, loved ones need to leave decisions and actions (seeking help) up to the person hurting, unless they ask for your help.

In my experience, the more you push and try to help out, the more some people rebel and dig deeper into their shit.

If your hubby is feeling very hostile towards you,(projecting his old feelings) then any action on your part will be suspect to him.

Other than that, I think it is pretty crappy that professionals don't take a moment to at least respond that they can't help out at this time. :grr:

:hug:

DemEx

[mopinko]

5. i am trying, but

i am worried. he told me to take cyanide. when i asked him if he would take it if he had it, he said he might. he talked a while ago about stepping on the third rail. (chicago's electric trains are a magnet for suicides.)
i am most upset that when i called her sunday night, i asked her to call HIM as soon as she could, and she didn't call him until this morning. 5 phone messages later, she picks up the phone. :wtf:

[ernstbass]

6. I don't understand why the therapist didn't call your husband back

She may not have had a release to talk to you and therefore couldn't call you back or she would be acknowledging that he was her client. I'm a therapist and we are often at the mercy of what the individual client tells us. There are many times I know I'm not getting a complete picture of what's going on at home but I can't do anything about it unless the client lets me. I'm also wondering if the therapist gave your husband info on how to handle a crisis situation. For example, I instruct my clients to call a local hospital 24 hr help line if it's after hours and there is an emergency.

[mopinko]

7. i don't get that part either.

i had called her last week, because he said that she knew about fibromyalgia, and i would like to find a therapist for myself that has a grip on this. he said that it was ok for me to see her also. but i told him that i was unsure about that, and that the 2 of them would have to ok that. but i thought she might be able to give me a referral to someone. so i called her, and she did not call me back, or contact him. when we were looking for therapists i called her and left a message that i was looking for a therapist, and she didn't call me back then, either.
i really cannot understand a therapist getting this kind of anguished phone calls and not responding in a timely fashion.
i am biting my tongue about this, cuz i know no good can come of knocking his therapist. my daughter's shrink suggested that i just show up at his appointment, and insist on coming in. i don't know where her office is tho, as her phone listing is outdated. i'm not ready to pay the price for that now, tho.
but, shouldn't she want to know what is happening?

[mopinko]

8. one last hope

boy, people not returning phone calls is getting to me. i know, i need to take a deep breath. i called my therapist and asked her to squeeze me in asap, but she has not called back. he says he asked the m.d. to call me but she has not called. i know she is just waiting until she has time to talk. but..
i did think of one other person who might be able to help. we saw a couples counselor about a year ago. 4 sessions of flat out hell. he has painted on his happy face with everyone. but she saw him in action, and as his former therapist maybe has some legal weight. at least she might be able to help me sort things out a little bit. i put in a call to her, and hope she can get me in quickly.
when he left, he went to work. he assures me that it is my worry that is making him crazy, and the boys in the lunchroom all assure him he is just fine. oh, but i am ruining his life, tho. but he is just fine. can you say denial?
he tells me that the therapist insists that i stop contacting her, and mind my own business. i cannot understand putting a patient that you barely know, about whom you have a report of possible harm to self and others, into the line of fire like that. does she think he is just henpecked, or what? good god.

[mopinko]

9. seeing the couples counselor today

hoping she can help me figure this out.
i am just so worried about this shrink. if she did not at least call the m.d.. i am going to get ballistic here. but she has a real problem with phone calls, and it is really adding up to bugging me. i had called her last week, just looking to ask her for a recommendation for a therapist who knew something about fibromyalgia, which is what is causing my problems. hubby said she knew something about. (i think i am repeating myself here, maybe. sorry.) i just said i am so and so, you are treating my husband, please call me. she didn't call me back.
when he had his first appointment, he couldn't find the office. he was in a his emotional fog, and it was one of those, it's in an apartment, go around to the back, there is no sign on the door, etc. ok, that's weird right there. but he called to ask her, and she didn't answer. ok, they never do pick up their own phones, ok. but he left a message then called the emergency number that was on her machine and left a message there. then he stood around til 20 after, and left. now, when he called to make the first appointment, he left one of those, long anguished cries for help on her machine. then he is late for his first appointment, and she doesn't check her massages??? she finally called him back at half past, and said 'well, it was your appointed time, so i turned off the ringer' hello? there is just something not right here.
argh.

[mopinko]

10. another strike out

i was hoping mostly that the release we had signed when we saw her might be enforceable, but she says no. at least i got to tell the story to someone. but it looks to everyone like a he said, she said, the marriage is just f'ed up, maybe everybody just needs to move along. sigh.
i talked to the m.d. this morning, and she is getting annoyed. i can't say as i blame her. there is not much she really can do. i did get her to agree to talk to my daughter's psychiatrist, who has been helping and advising me through this thing. the pdoc is more concerned with helping people than rules. i asked the m.d. to at least suggest that he consult a psychiatrist, but she does not feel that she can do this on my say so. the big sad here is that i have had a long relationship with this doc, and i think that is now fubar.
other than that, i can only cross my fingers, and be ready to call 911. i hate to do that in this day and age, when there are stupid rules that prevent spouses from talking to doctors, but not to stop corporations from refusing to hire you because your wife called the cops on you. shit shit shit shit.

[DemExpat]

11. So sorry to hear of this trouble, mopinko,

all I can do is send a couple of hugs to you...

:hug: :hug: :hug:

DemEx

Ask your husband what he wants to do - don't take it ALL on your shoulders, this is impossible to bear, and doesn't help much anyway, in my experience.

Ask him if he wants to stick it out together a while longer while you guys sort out your respective personal loads, or do it apart.

Sometimes you just have to say....."shit or get off of the pot" as my father used to say frequently.

A better and nicer Dutch saying is...."Do it with pleasure (or wholeheartedly)..... or not at all"....

Another :hug: to you and yours.

[mopinko]

12. he is talking

about using his upcoming week off, which was supposed to be a family vacation, to move out. i don't think he will, because these "fugues" that he gets into tend to disperse, and we are back on planet love you madly. i don't think he can sustain one long enough to pack, but i could be wrong. they have been sticking around longer and longer.
i am especially angry that the m.d. did not feel she could even urge him to get his sleep study done a little sooner. (like the saturday at the beginning of the week, instead of waiting til next wed.) that is the hard part about this, knowing that he has a physical problem that may not be the root of this, but is sure not helping. the m.d. seems to find this slant to be wishful and delusional on my part.
i cannot tell you how much your hugs mean, tho. can't imagine where i would be right nw without this forum to rant. thank you all.

[mopinko]

13. a piece f the puzzle

at least one thing makes a little more sense- he is telling docs that he wants a divorce. i honestly, honestly do not believe that. oh well. he really has exhibited some dementia like symptoms here. well, i have a couple of sex stories that might perk up these freudian, and get them to see how disturbed he is. but jesus, these therapists do not believe in neurochemistry AT ALL.
i am going to try to get him to come with me to my therapist to make a plan for next week which was supposed to be a vacation. he can bring his with or not, but i think if he starts to talk about moving out, he will break down, and i will finally have a credible witness.

[mopinko]

14. today round of anguished phone calls

man, you look so crazy when you have to go around begging people to help your sick family member.
but, a little progress today, maybe.
first, i am trying to set up a joint appointment with my therapist. i went to see her today. hubby is scheduled to take next week off and we are both shaking at the thought of a week together. so i am trying to get him to sit down and make a plan, and some ground rules. either we will make a plan, or i will have a witness.
second, i have had a few conversations with my daughter's neurologist. she is one of the few people who thinks that it is possible for this to be caused by the sleep problems, at least in large part, and that my reports of his sleep are adequate to at least make a tentative dx of apnea. i talked to her this morning and she seemed a little appalled that the internist was not more concerned. she offered to call her "she needs to be aware of resources available to deal with this kind of situation" she said. i asked her also to share her knowledge of sleep issues with the internist.
so, third, i just got an almost sheepish call from said internist. she was really hostile yesterday, but is going to call hubby and at least ask him if he would like a referral to a psychiatrist. he will probably say no, but i think it will make an impact on him for her to suggest it. that was the thing that had me the most po'ed. she wouldn't even suggest to him that he could see someone.
i guess i have yelled "a danger to himself and others" enough times that people are starting to feel a breeze up their skirts. jesus. fortunately, also, although every mental health professional is kind of appalled at the stories about the therapist. maybe enough that they feel a little empowered to step in, i don't know.

i tell you tho, this is a special very hot hell here. oy. maybe it is demented to think that someone who would like you to die one day and loves you madly the next actually does love you, except for the glitch in their brains. crazier still if you insist that you love them. maybe it is good that i went through this with a kid first. it's not crazy to love your crazy kid. just your crazy husband.
i ended the discussion with the internist by saying- i know all about the difficulties and conflicting rights and responsibilities that stand in the way of helping someone who cannot see that they need help. but i also know that the person who gets help for their family member is the one that makes the most phone calls, knocks on the most doors and bugs the most people. too f'ing bad for them if they are uncomfortable in their ethical dilemmas. i have none.

btw, i apologize to anyone who is offended by the use of the word crazy. i know it is upsetting to some people. but it just seems like the right thing to me. not clinical, not precise, more like the gritty, messy thing that it is. hope you don't mind. and thank you again for the space to wring my hands. it is a relief. hope no one finds this all upsetting.

[Name removed]

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[SpeedwayDemocrat]

16. The only person you can "fix" is you..

If he doesn't want help (yours or anyone else's), then all you can do is take care of yourself. As they say before flying "In event of a sudden cabin de-pressurization, attend to your OWN mask BEFORE you attempt to help others." Symptoms sound like bi-polar. Is there a local mental health association you can call to find a therapist who will listen - and is an uninvolved third party? Curious why you're working with an internist of this, when it sounds like a psych problem...

[mopinko]

17. i have 4 kids to worry about

so it is not as easy as him/me. the internist was a hail mary thing. and a serious mistake.